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  1. #21

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    Ahem. "ISK101: Remedial Grand Prix Assignments process and procedure" is kwanfan1818's specialty, not mine!
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Ahem. "ISK101: Remedial Grand Prix Assignments process and procedure" is kwanfan1818's specialty, not mine!
    I'm just an analyst nerd who's trying to reverse engineer what the GP Announcement means from the behavior that follows...
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by sus2850 View Post
    And I guess what you said about Evan applies to Johnny Weir as well, that he is not on the list as it is not certain yet whether he really comes back?
    Johnny isn't an olympic medalist either. He might not be assigned to any envelope.

  4. #24

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    Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Ahem. "ISK101: Remedial Grand Prix Assignments process and procedure" is kwanfan1818's specialty, not mine!

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I'm just an analyst nerd who's trying to reverse engineer what the GP Announcement means from the behavior that follows...

    You folks just crack me up!
    There is nothing more captivating in this world than a woman's form gracing the ice in skating boots. It's simply sensational!

  5. #25
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    So do GP assignments actually come out May 19th? For some reason I thought it was usually later in June...

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    So do GP assignments actually come out May 19th? For some reason I thought it was usually later in June...
    I think that it's actually May 21st, but I'm not sure if that's when the skaters are told and the public shortly thereafter. I think that it could be as much as a week later

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk9tingfan View Post
    I think that it's actually May 21st, but I'm not sure if that's when the skaters are told and the public shortly thereafter. I think that it could be as much as a week later
    The Skate America webpage specifically states that the ISU GP Assignments will be announced 5/21. The GP announcement was later last year b/c the WC was delayed.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by peibeck View Post
    Glad to see Courtney Hicks get funding after her injury last season.

    I know one dance team (or at least his mom) that is very excited by their funding. Whee!
    I hate to be pushy but does anyone know how are the funds distributed? Or is it unethical to ask?

  9. #29

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    Please refresh my memory, how does one who is not in a team envelope (such as Johnny, Evan and Brandon) get chosen for a grand prix event?

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by judiz View Post
    Please refresh my memory, how does one who is not in a team envelope (such as Johnny, Evan and Brandon) get chosen for a grand prix event?
    Envelope funding has nothing to do with Grand Prix selection -- see the 2012-13 Grand Prix Pre-announcement Thread for details about the GP selection process and criteria: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=83348
    Last edited by Sylvia; 05-09-2012 at 10:51 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by judiz View Post
    Please refresh my memory, how does one who is not in a team envelope (such as Johnny, Evan and Brandon) get chosen for a grand prix event?
    I think the team envelopes just have to do with USFSA funding, not selection for a grand prix event. Grand prix selection is convoluted but I think basically based on world rankings and host picks. So Johnny and Evan could get Skate America based on a host pick.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by judiz View Post
    Please refresh my memory, how does one who is not in a team envelope (such as Johnny, Evan and Brandon) get chosen for a grand prix event?
    Aside from host picks, team envelopes are separate from Grand Prix choices, and as far as I know, USFS has no written justification or criteria for selecting host picks, although over the years there has been speculation that they offer the National Champions a shot at Skate America. (Theoretically, a skater should be on the "International Assignments List" to get a GP host pick, but that list is fluid.) Grand Prix selection is based on:
    • Placement in the Top 12 at last year's World Championships
    • Having a Top 24 Season's Best (SB) and/or World Standing (WS) at the end of last season
    • Using a one-time "come-back" option, based on at least one Top 6 finish at a World Championship before last season
    • Medalists from last year's Jr. World Championships or JGPF who plan to skate in the Senior GP (not guaranteed)
    • Top 75 SB (not guaranteed)


    Team Envelope criteria coincide with some of these, but not all, although, practically speaking, those in Envelope A and most in B should meet the GP criteria for, at least, consideration (Top 75 SB).

    Assuming the same rules as last year:

    As long USFS submitted their names by the deadline and an assurance to the ISU that they were back to competition, both Weir-Voronov and Lysacek can use their one-time option as "come-back" (formerly seeded) skaters to get two GP events in the initial selection. (Lysacek didn't have to take his last season, because he was still ranked 18th in WS and was guaranteed one and was assigned two in the initial GP selection.)

    The only way I can make sense of the GP Announcement is that they can also skip/save the option for next season as a contingency for the Olympic year and, instead, be at the top of alternates list as "come-back" skaters. ("Come-back" skaters aren't defined in the "Replacements" section [7.6] or explicitly limited to those who already used the one-time option.)

    Mroz is 42nd on the SB list, and, theoretically, could be a Top 75 initial pick, but that's not very likely: aside from host picks, there was only one last season in the initial selection (Menshov), and one alternate pick (Majorov, but he was ranked 15th in WS).

    All three could be initial host picks (including if they use the "come back" or host pick replacements, including "TBD" replacements. If the former, they have to have a GP minimum from the last two season, which Mroz should have from Rostelecom 2011, and which Lysacek and Weir-Voronov would have to earn in one of the approved Senior B/International events before their first scheduled GP. If a host pick replacement, either wouldn't have to post a GP minimum score.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 05-09-2012 at 11:46 PM.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  13. #33
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    I doubt Mroz will get a GP this season, I think a bunch of other skaters would be in line to get a 2nd event before he gets a first. Keep in mind that Jeremy Abbott is the ONLY US man guaranteed 2 GP events in the coming season, Adam wasn't top 12 at Worlds and Ross didn't get to Worlds so they only have 1 event each for sure, along with Ricky, and Josh and Jason if they move up.

    Armin doesn't have any events guaranteed but is more likely to be considered for a host spot over Mroz due to his better result at Nationals, the same is true for Razzano. And actually, Mroz's scores on the GP were so abysmal that Armin and Doug, who didn't have good GP seasons either, still scored higher at their events than Mroz did at either of his. Even someone like Carriere, Aaron, or Messing would likely be given a host pick over Mroz just considering recent results. Of course the host spot could be given to someone in the Adam-Ross-Ricky-Josh*-Jason* (*provided they move up, i haven't heard one way or another what either boy plans to do yet) should they not get 2 events right away.

    So it's hard to tell what will happen. I would think Ross and Adam have a good shot at getting 2 events right away, and the odds for Josh and Jason to get 2 events is probably also pretty good, but we don't know if they are moving up yet. Ricky I would think would only get 1 event, unless of course we have the situation where one or both of Josh and Jason stay on the JGP for next season, in which case he could get 2 and the host spot at SA could open up for one of the other guys, likely from those I mentioned in the last paragraph. What are the odds for Armin getting an assignment that isn't a host spot? I know he has no realistic shot at 2 assignments unless one is a host pick, but even though he's not on the top 24 SB or WS list, could he maybe still get one invite?

  14. #34
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    Mahbanoozadeh could get a non-host assignment in the initial selection, but his odds aren't that much better than Mroz's, since he's all of one place (41 vs. 42) on the SB list, and his SB score (at NHK) was all of .09 above Mroz's SB (at Rostelecom). Below 24, WS doesn't count for much.

    USFS may decide to lobby/deal for a spot for Mahbanoozadeh, because they skipped him for 4C's. If they're going to lobby/deal for a skater not already guaranteed one, I would rather see them do it for Razzano, who is 38 on the SB list and whose SB list was 7+ points above Mahbahnoozadeh and Mroz, two skaters with more international experience and more opportunities over the years.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  15. #35
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    If a spot is available, I've a feeling USFS will lobby for Armin over Razzano and Mroz because 1) Armin is a US nationals medalist 2) USFS usually makes up to skaters (that's just my impression and not any expert opinion).

    But then USFS may well decide heck witht he current men and give the combackers one more shot (if they don't have 2 gps).

    I don't see USFS having spots to play with in the first place, given how even Adam may not get a second GP

  16. #36

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    2 new pairs have been added to USFS' International Selection Pool: http://www.usfsa.org/Athletes.asp?id=447

    Lindsay Davis & Mark Ladwig
    Caitlin Yankowskas & Joshua Reagan

    ETA: Charlotte Lichtman & Dean Copely were removed from the original ISP list following the 4/27/12 official press release announcing their split.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 05-10-2012 at 12:42 AM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    If a spot is available, I've a feeling USFS will lobby for Armin over Razzano and Mroz because 1) Armin is a US nationals medalist 2) USFS usually makes up to skaters (that's just my impression and not any expert opinion).

    But then USFS may well decide heck witht he current men and give the combackers one more shot (if they don't have 2 gps).

    I don't see USFS having spots to play with in the first place, given how even Adam may not get a second GP
    Last season, US had the following spots:

    Rippon guaranteed (2)
    Abbott guaranteed (1), received (2)
    Dornbush guaranteed (2)
    Miner guaranteed (2)
    Bradley guaranteed (1) but retired
    Mahbahnoozadeh guaranteed (1), got a second host TBD
    Third host spot: (1)

    Total: guaranteed/host 10, received/used 11, distributed among seven skaters


    US has the following guaranteed spots this season:

    Abbott (2)
    Miner (1)
    Rippon (1)
    Brown (1) -- if he takes it
    Farris (1) -- if he takes it
    Dornbush (1)
    Other host spots* (2)

    Total: guaranteed, 9, taken TBD, distributed among six-eight skaters, not necessarily including Lysacek and Weir-Voronov.

    *Assuming that Abbott will have a choice of Skate America, there are two host spots left.

    Lysacek and Weir could get two anywhere if they invoke the "come-back" clause. They could each get an initial host pick, whether or not they invoke the "come-back" clause. They could each get a TBD host pick or get one from the alternates list (at the top as "come-back" skaters).
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  18. #38
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    Thx for the analysis, Kwanfan!
    Abbott doesnt ever get skam though

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    *Assuming that Abbott will have a choice of Skate America, there are two host spots left.

    Abbott is a 3 time US Sr Champ, 1 time Jr Champ and has never been invited to Skate America yet. Lysacek got SA last year (then didn't skate)

    Why break the trend and invite Abbott this year?

  20. #40
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    You're both right, and now that Abbott is the only US skater guaranteed two, strategically it would better to hoard the spot distribute the wealth and let two other Feds choose him, especially since he has the potential to be formidable no matter where he goes, not your average 10-12 skater that you can slot in for 4th or 5th and hope for the best field for your own skaters.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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