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  1. #21
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    I think we all have to go through losing a love. It is painful. But it would, ultimately, be more painful to stay in an unbalanced relationship. Passion often changes. If we are not friends with and if we do not respect our partners, it will not be a happy one.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    Are you sure he didn't cheat on you before the time you caught him?
    I would bet everything I have he's cheated on her multiple times.

    I do hope you get a physical because he may have passed things on to you.

    WRT the internet flirting--it isn't flirting. He's looking for someone to have relationship/sex with that isn't in your circle and you couldn't easily track down.

    The question I have is how were the finances dealt with while you were together? Did you move into his place, or did he move in with you? Who paid for your dates? Did you ever help him out with money? Help him out professionally?

    The second question is are you sleeping with him again?

    Hate to say it, but those are generally the two prime motivations for a man to say he wants to get back together with someone. Sadly, the woman often falls for it.

  3. #23
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    You deserve sooooo much better.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pavla2304 View Post
    , but I still love him very much...
    No you don't love him. Love is for someone we admire, respect, and trust.

    You NEED him for some reason. Scared to be alone? Feeling unworthy of a good person? Afraid of change? Try and figure out what exactly it is in yourself that is making you feel like you want him.

    You chose a bad guy. Trying to change yourself won't make him a good guy. And you need to love yourself enough to not have a relationship with such a harmful person.
    ‎"You emerge victorious from the maze you've been travelling in." Oct 21,2012- Best Fortune Cookie Ever!

  5. #25
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    I know you're hurting but I'm going to be blunt...and this is from personal experience.
    You can't make someone behave appropriately,you can't make them be nice,you can't make them see what they don't want to see.And quite honestly,except in rare cases...once a cheater...ALWAYS a cheater. He just showed you that he has not changed.See the red flag,accept it and move on. If he doesn't change,it's his problem,not yours. It will hurt,but you will survive.I know,I've been there. If you do something,stick to it.Because guys like that,if you cave and take them back over and over.They'll just keep on because there are no consequences.

  6. #26
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    In every single relationship I have ever been witness to where one partner cheated, that same partner continued to cheat after he/she promised they wouldn't. No exceptions. Once a cheater, always a cheater is one of the truest aphorisms I'm aware of. Don't compromise yourself out of fear of being alone. You deserve so much better than what he's willing to give.

  7. #27
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    He's offering you a casual relationship from his side on his terms. He's telling you who he is and what he wants, and it's usually a good idea to believe him, and to assume that he's not planning to change.

    If that's what you want, keep him. If not, DTMFA.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjblue View Post
    No you don't love him. Love is for someone we admire, respect, and trust.

    You NEED him for some reason. Scared to be alone? Feeling unworthy of a good person? Afraid of change? Try and figure out what exactly it is in yourself that is making you feel like you want him.

    You chose a bad guy. Trying to change yourself won't make him a good guy. And you need to love yourself enough to not have a relationship with such a harmful person.
    I will be fair to both parties and say that he's not a good guy...for her. Some people can be really terrible in some relationships but notsomuch in others. Maybe in the future, he'll find himself in a completely open relationship and both parties will be perfectly happy. But it won't be with Pavla2304, because she wants something different.

    Pavla, you WILL love again. But first you have to acknowledge that you have to let him go, for your own happiness and for his. Love isn't about worrying you'll be alone and hoping that he still wants you. That isn't love, that's obsession and need and infatuation. Love is those warm and fuzzy feelings when you know that someone will always have your back and support you. It doesn't sound like that exists anymore, for whatever reason.

  9. #29
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    Smile

    [QUOTE=Anita18;3564879]
    I will be fair to both parties and say that he's not a good guy...for her. Some people can be really terrible in some relationships but notsomuch in others. Maybe in the future, he'll find himself in a completely open relationship and both parties will be perfectly happy. But it won't be with Pavla2304, because she wants something different.
    I have to disagree...he is not a good guy.period. For her or anyone else. If he had openly expressed to her at the beginning of their relationship that he desired a open relationship,then that would be different. However,he lied. Deceit is not a desired characteristic in any partner,in any type of relationship.Hence making him the bad guy in this situation. Be that fair or unfair,oh well.Life isn't fair.

    Love is those warm and fuzzy feelings when you know that someone will always have your back and support you. It doesn't sound like that exists anymore, for whatever reason.
    Also...love in the long run isn't the warm fuzzies. In the beginning...the honeymoon phase...yeah.But in a real world with real people,love is a choice not warm fuzzies.It's mutual respect and admiration for that person and a willingness and desire to work with that person to resolve whatever difficulties you may have. Sometimes you may have warm fuzzies but it's definitely not the predominate thing,especially when they leave their shoes in the middle of the floor and you trip over them in the middle of the night.

    I do agree that when you love someone and they love you,you should know that they support you and have your back.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrushka View Post
    I have to disagree...he is not a good guy.period. For her or anyone else. If he had openly expressed to her at the beginning of their relationship that he desired a open relationship,then that would be different. However,he lied. Deceit is not a desired characteristic in any partner,in any type of relationship.Hence making him the bad guy in this situation. Be that fair or unfair,oh well.Life isn't fair.
    It's actually pretty likely that he's just as confused and conflicted as she is. Many people have trouble expressing their true wants honestly, if they think it will upset someone. Maybe part of him really does want things to be the way they were, but he's not mature enough to acknowledge that that can never happen, and he isn't mature enough to see that he's disrespecting and blaming her. It doesn't make him a bad person full-stop, just bad in this particular relationship. It's the same with a friend of mine - she and her husband are just wrong for each other, and have so much baggage that the relationship is unrepairable. But I see him with the kids and he obviously loves his kids to bits. He's not a bad father, or person. Just a bad husband to her, and IMO they're better off without each other.

    It's really hard to say what's truly going on, especially if we're only getting one side of the story. Either way, the only solution is for them to separate for good and to find greener pastures elsewhere. The details don't really matter much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrushka View Post
    Also...love in the long run isn't the warm fuzzies. In the beginning...the honeymoon phase...yeah.But in a real world with real people,love is a choice not warm fuzzies.It's mutual respect and admiration for that person and a willingness and desire to work with that person to resolve whatever difficulties you may have. Sometimes you may have warm fuzzies but it's definitely not the predominate thing,especially when they leave their shoes in the middle of the floor and you trip over them in the middle of the night.

    I do agree that when you love someone and they love you,you should know that they support you and have your back.
    Isn't that what I said a commitment to love each other was earlier? When you make a commitment to someone long-term, you're vowing to support each other no matter what. That's an unconditional kind of love. And I don't know about you, but I get the same warm fuzzies thinking about my family (as exasperating as they can be) as I do with my fiance. He's part of my family now, and they're in my corner for the long run. Sometimes you wonder why you stand them, sure, (like in your example), but that doesn't mean that that feeling of security isn't there.

  11. #31
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    Pavla, I'm going to agree with pretty much everyone in this thread. You deserve better than someone like this; someone who disrespects you, then tries to make YOU feel deficient and that's why he's an ass. Nope, sorry hon. You are a beautiful, bright and very decent individual, and if all he's doing is seeing the negative qualities of yours, then he's working VERY hard to find them and ignore your positive ones; and someone who is putting that much effort into treating you with disrespect and disdain, WHY do you want to be with him?

    I know that you say you love him, and in your own way, maybe you do, or maybe like some people have said, you are just kind of hooked on him or feeling you need him for some reason instead. But the fact is, he has shown, in the past and present, that he doesn't love YOU. And really, to me, that's all the information that is required; because you are far too good to be wasting your time on someone like that.
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  12. #32
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    If this were a letter in to Savage Love, I know just what he'd say:

    DTMFA
    Q: Why can't I read the competition threads?
    A: Competition forums on the board are available to those with a Season Pass or a premium membership How to View Kiss & Cry

  13. #33
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    HI,

    I hardly ever post here but I had to this time because I've been through the same thing. And my advice - walk away. No third/fourth/fifth chances. A guy who cheats is a guy who cheats - you won't change that any more than you can change a zebra into a horse no matter how much you love him or try to please him. You'll just drive yourself crazy trying and be crushed when he cheats again.

    Find someone else - even though you think it's impossible. Keep busy and forget about him. Right now he completely has the upper hand and knows that you'll be there whenever he wants you to be there.

    And take comfort in knowing you're not the only person in your position.

  14. #34

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    I'm so sorry this has happened to you. It sucks. RUN, don't walk. Men speak with their actions, and he has basically told you that he doesn't give a stuff about you. So why should you give a stuff about him???

    Don't wait for him to use up more years of your life, or drain you of your emotional well-being, or even to give you an STD or worse before you see the light. Run, don't walk, now!

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cupid View Post
    ...If there is any doubt, END it. That way, you are in control for the next 30 days, unless he really screws up and ends it before then, which I hope doesn't happen.
    This recently happened to a friend of mine. Stuck with the repeat cheater against everyone's advice for SEVEN years, only to be dumped via text message: "I met someone better than you." She's kicking herself for wasting seven years... her friends are just glad she got out, however badly it ended, before they got married, as she expected they would.

    Best of luck to you, Pavla.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    I am going to suggest something different from the other posters. Not that I disagree with what they are saying, but Pavla2304, it sounds like he means a great deal to you in spite of his flaws. So here's my suggestion...

    And rest of post...
    This is a very interesting alternative to the popular opinion. I fully support any chance to improve on communication and to work towards an adult, mutually respecting relationship.

    But I think Pavla needs to work on a lot of internal issues before she can have a running chance at a healthy relationship where she respects herself, respects her expectations for love, and receives respect. Pavla, your entire post was filled with redflags and spoke of a completely dysfunctional relationship, that might be salvaged if both parties devoted themselves to longterm work on communication. But the one sentence that did it for me was your mention of what you could do to make him love you again. And that was preceded by a paragraph that seem to show the dynamic you two have at the moment: you working for his love, feeling not good enough for his love, wondering why he doesn't love you the same as he did before, and allowing yourself to have become completely eclipsed by his opinion of you. This dynamic is so destructive Pavla! Believe in your own courage, you can be brave and stand on your own two feet. For a while at least, learn how to be strong on your own, and to develop self belief that does not hinge on a man's opinion of you.

    This might be harsh, but I so wholeheartedly believe that it takes two to create the situation. Abusive relationships require a volunteer. So don't be that volunteer. I know this is egregiously generalized. But bottom line is that the only person you can really change in any interpersonal conflict is yourself. So if you are in a pattern of destructive relationships with men, examine what it is about yourself that enables these abusive relationships to thrive in the first place. And once again, give yourself time to learn how to be on your own, and to develop and reaffirm your bravery, strength, and character.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    Many people have trouble expressing their true wants honestly, if they think it will upset someone.
    In this case, I think he's being dishonest because he knows or suspects that honesty will get him nowhere fast, and he'd rather eat his cake and have it, too.

    In general, though, people have a hard time expressing their needs when they are not mainstream, like having multiple relationships, be they intimate, flings, or a combination of both. Many will cheat rather than take the immediate risk. People who have borderline to full-blown kinks often are afraid to bring this up with their SO's for fear of rejection and for fear that it will break up the relationship, if they feel they can't live without it and getting it elsewhere is not an option. I know men and women who had abusive or assholish boyfriends and husbands, because they didn't realize that there were men who would top them in bed in ways I'd rather not think about, but be kind and reasonable in day-to-day living, and each has eventually found one after a long and painful process.

    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    If this were a letter in to Savage Love, I know just what he'd say:

    DTMFA
    I think that would be his entire answer.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  18. #38
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    Thank you very much for your opinions and words... It is always very helpful to get the views from "not so interested" people.

    I know, that I am stupid, that I forgave him for the 2nd time. He told me that he is not changing messages with other girls etc., held my hand and asked me to make a line behind it...

    We decided to "test" our reunited relationship till summer. Then we will sit together and talk about the future. Well, I can accept if him, or me find out that it has no future and we will break up. But I do not want someone 3rd to be between us. So if I find out that he is messanging with some other girls on internet or he even meets other girls in pubs I will leave with it, he truly does not deserve me... I do not plan to controll him, follow him on every step or so. If I have even little suspicion, I will leave him.

    I am already decided, that this chance is really the last one and I told him honestly about it, that I do not want to be hurt again, that he is not the only guy on the Earth and if he betrays me again - i can find a better man, who will love me as I am, who will want to marry me and have kids with me. And that he sees me never again then.

    A good question is "why do i want to save our relationship?" Because that 5 years were truly amazing, because we were soulmates. You know, I just want to know that I did everything to rescue it. And if it does not work then I will have atleast the feeling that I did everything I could. That I did not give up so easily.

  19. #39
    drinky typo pbp, closet hugger
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    DTMFA

    anything else is prolonging the inevitable.
    Q: Why can't I read the competition threads?
    A: Competition forums on the board are available to those with a Season Pass or a premium membership How to View Kiss & Cry

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pavla2304 View Post
    Thank you very much for your opinions and words... It is always very helpful to get the views from "not so interested" people.

    I know, that I am stupid, that I forgave him for the 2nd time. He told me that he is not changing messages with other girls etc., held my hand and asked me to make a line behind it...

    We decided to "test" our reunited relationship till summer. Then we will sit together and talk about the future. Well, I can accept if him, or me find out that it has no future and we will break up. But I do not want someone 3rd to be between us. So if I find out that he is messanging with some other girls on internet or he even meets other girls in pubs I will leave with it, he truly does not deserve me... I do not plan to controll him, follow him on every step or so. If I have even little suspicion, I will leave him.

    I am already decided, that this chance is really the last one and I told him honestly about it, that I do not want to be hurt again, that he is not the only guy on the Earth and if he betrays me again - i can find a better man, who will love me as I am, who will want to marry me and have kids with me. And that he sees me never again then.

    A good question is "why do i want to save our relationship?" Because that 5 years were truly amazing, because we were soulmates. You know, I just want to know that I did everything to rescue it. And if it does not work then I will have atleast the feeling that I did everything I could. That I did not give up so easily.
    You sound like you've got a plan. Save this post somewhere and read it every once a while, to remind yourself what you promised. It's much harder to stick to a plan when you're in the thick of things again, but you have to be steadfast. Don't forget!

    And people and relationships DO change over time. Feeling like soulmates when you were young doesn't mean all that much when you're older and just different. The difference is if you're open-minded enough to have continued mutual respect and support for each other. If you don't, the relationship is just over and there's no trying to save it. There's no use in thinking that you gave up easily if the person you're leaving just isn't the same person you fell in love with.

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