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  1. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by figureit View Post
    They did not leave Sappenfield that long ago at all and given she had the last team that won Jr. World's ...makes sense to give her the credit...
    You can give credit to whomever you wish, figureit. I simply congratulated Haven and Brandon, without mentioning anything about credit. But since you bring it up, frankly IMO, D/F along with Julie Marcotte deserve most of the credit.

    I would imagine Delilah is very pleased to see her former students, Haven and Brandon, achieving this success at Junior Worlds. So all involved must be very happy indeed.

  2. #942
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    It seems like Dalilah Sappenfield is great at the technical side of skating and developing consistency (for the most part). Training at altitude is also probably a big help for her skaters. She probably just needs to team with a strong choreographer.

  3. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    It seems like Dalilah Sappenfield is great at the technical side of skating and developing consistency (for the most part). Training at altitude is also probably a big help for her skaters. She probably just needs to team with a strong choreographer.
    Apparently she does as Jdonavan said "Delilah had them go to Marcotte, she had them up until October I believe, and clearly they are using her technique on twist and throws".
    It sounds like Sappenfield sent them to Marcotte and it is possible she uses choreographers good ones then. Thanks for the info...interesting stuff.

  4. #944
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    [QUOTE=aftershocks;3851880]You can give credit to whomever you wish, figureit. I simply congratulated Haven and Brandon, without mentioning anything about credit. But since you bring it up, frankly IMO, D/F along with Julie Marcotte deserve most of the credit.

    OF course congrats to them on GOLD!! whoot !! and to all Team USA for retaining three spots for next year!!

    I commented on this due to the IN article that came out where Zimmerman himself said the programs were set the technique was already set and he didn't do anything basically but work on Components. Next year he says will be the true vision of who this team is and I agree with him. Everything was set already...programs choreographed by a talented person but also changed and molded by their coach Sappenfield...trained by her... technique by her ....and it sounds like ZImmerman is agreeing too..so I was agreeing is all...it was an interesting comment by him in the article and although he did not say Sappenfield's name he basically gave her credit for those things and reminded everyone that next year things will be different and I believe they will...although I guess there is someone more experienced or with a better knowledge that can comment more technically than I...and obviously they are both successful coaches........didn't Zimmerman train Caydee and Jeremy for awhile?

    It will be interesting to see how all the pairs develop going into this season...not just D/F but also the many teams including the new team of D/B. This season of internationals will be amazing to watch with all these teams spot on their game! Growing and developing...and moving forward there is one thing for sure...US pairs is coming out in force...we have some great teams and not just one but more than one, two and three. so Watch out!

  5. #945
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    From the Junior Worlds Pairs FS article: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    "I could not be happier for these two skaters," Zimmerman said. "They took a big chance this year. They felt that they wanted a change and came to Silvia and me in October. Mainly -- but not strictly -- they wanted to work on their program components. That is what they really wanted to improve on this year.

    "They [already] had their technical elements, and the programs were mainly set," he continued. "They came to us to get the whole package. We are really thrilled with them."

    Like Haven, Zimmerman sees a bright future ahead for the team as they move to the senior circuit next season.

    "The competition will be really hard next year and throughout the season, and I think they know that and they respect all the competitors," Zimmerman said. "Hopefully, they will come out next season with a different look, keeping their strength and improving on their weaknesses."
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  6. #946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Congratulations to Haven Denney & Brandon Frazier, 2013 Junior World champions! Jessica Calalang & Zack Sidhu finish 9th and Britney Simpson & Matthew Blackmer 10th and so the U.S. retains 3 pair spots for 2014 Junior Worlds.

    ETA: Denney/Frazier set new ISU personal best scores with 103.22 (FS) and 155.83 (total), improving on their previous PBs of 99.74 and 150.55 at 2012 Junior Worlds. They landed sbs 3S (-0.3) and 2A+2A seq., throw 3S (+1) and 3Lo (-0.3), and 3twist (+1.3).
    FS (2nd place) to "La Strada" by Nino Rota, choreo by Julie Marcotte: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZqlyjGwkY8


    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    From the Junior Worlds Pairs FS article: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news


    Thanks for all the latest info., Sylvia!

    And on that note CONGRATULATIONS TO DENNEY & FRAZIER FOR BECOMING ONLY THE 5TH AMERICAN PAIR TEAM IN HISTORY TO WIN JR. WORLDS!!!! *bow*

    I too prefer artistry above all when it comes to pairs, but as the late Alexander Zhuk once said "technique will *always* come before artistry"...

    and rightfully so!

  7. #947

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    From the Junior Worlds Pairs FS article: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    IN posts another zinger--Coughlin apparently underwent shoulder surgery, not hip surgery Didn't think it was *that* difficult to keep track of injuries. . .

    Congrats to Denney/Frazier on their win! (Which was skated to "La Scala"? Guess the writer got Milan-happy. La Strada, folks!)
    Last edited by LilJen; 03-01-2013 at 04:47 PM.
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

  8. #948

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    [QUOTE=figureit;3852159]
    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    You can give credit to whomever you wish, figureit. I simply congratulated Haven and Brandon, without mentioning anything about credit. But since you bring it up, frankly IMO, D/F along with Julie Marcotte deserve most of the credit.

    OF course congrats to them on GOLD!! whoot !! and to all Team USA for retaining three spots for next year!!

    I commented on this due to the IN article that came out where Zimmerman himself said the programs were set the technique was already set and he didn't do anything basically but work on Components. Next year he says will be the true vision of who this team is and I agree with him. Everything was set already...programs choreographed by a talented person but also changed and molded by their coach Sappenfield...trained by her... technique by her ....and it sounds like ZImmerman is agreeing too..so I was agreeing is all...it was an interesting comment by him in the article and although he did not say Sappenfield's name he basically gave her credit for those things and reminded everyone that next year things will be different and I believe they will...although I guess there is someone more experienced or with a better knowledge that can comment more technically than I...and obviously they are both successful coaches........didn't Zimmerman train Caydee and Jeremy for awhile?

    It will be interesting to see how all the pairs develop going into this season...not just D/F but also the many teams including the new team of D/B. This season of internationals will be amazing to watch with all these teams spot on their game! Growing and developing...and moving forward there is one thing for sure...US pairs is coming out in force...we have some great teams and not just one but more than one, two and three. so Watch out!
    Successful pair coaches? Jury is still out...no real proof. They were at the helm when the then current National Champs and Olympians Denney/Barrett dropped to third at Nationals after leaving Peterson and missed the world team. Soon after Barrett was skewered by Denneys blade in a practice thus ending their short lived partnership.

    They have yet to put together a team on their own and in fact have always had teams drop in their laps with programs already created. It will be interesting to see what they can do in a year.

  9. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by figureit View Post
    Apparently she does as Jdonavan said "Delilah had them go to Marcotte, she had them up until October I believe, and clearly they are using her technique on twist and throws".
    It sounds like Sappenfield sent them to Marcotte and it is possible she uses choreographers good ones then. Thanks for the info...interesting stuff.
    Is farming out choreography something that Dalilah does on a regular basis though? D/F is the 1st team of hers that I've heard of being associated with any top choreographers (sincere question).

    -----------------------------------

    I've watched D/F's program x2. I noticed (and this was pointed out by the UK commentators) that they are fast but they use short, rapid strokes to generate speed instead of long, deep strokes. Is this an issue in any way with judges? Also, Haven is listed as 17 yrs. old (turns 18 in October) and is 4-11. I hope she's already been through any growth spurt ....

    Hats off to them. I'm so proud of them!
    Last edited by olympic; 03-01-2013 at 05:42 PM.

  10. #950
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    Sappenfield sent Denney/Coughlin to Pasquale Camerlengo for both their programs this season but she choreographed a new SP for them after the original one didn't go over well at Champs Camp.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  11. #951
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    [QUOTE=olympic;3852253]Is farming out choreography something that Dalilah does on a regular basis though? D/F is the 1st team of hers that I've heard of being associated with any top choreographers (sincere question).

    I remember that M/B had Lori Nicole? one of her other teams had Julie before D/F a Canadian skater I think? isn't Marcotte Canadian? and that other teams had other choreographers too.. some maybe don't because of costs?? but I cannot see paying a choreographer 10,000 to do one program I think your coach should do it...so expensive!!! because doesn't the choreographer do stuff then the coach ends up changing it to fit all the technical things in better anyway? I don't know...so much money for a family to spend and then like Sylvia said if the judges at Champs Camp hate a program you spent 10,000 on not including costumes do they pay to have another one done or is that family on top ramen for the next year?? crazy...

  12. #952
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Is farming out choreography something that Dalilah does on a regular basis though? D/F is the 1st team of hers that I've heard of being associated with any top choreographers (sincere question).
    According to the info in past Nationals' programs, Dalilah has collaborated on choreography for her junior and senior teams with Damon Allen, Marina Zoueva, Pasquale Camerlengo, Julie Marcotte, Renee Roca, Kristine Hough, Zuzanna Parchem, and Heidi Thibert. The memorable programs performed by Yankowskas and Coughlin when they won 2011 Nationals were choreographed primarily by Zoueva.

  13. #953

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    D/F were taught their pairs elements and trained the longest with coaches Jim Peterson and Lyndon Johnston not Dalilah. Haven also spent a year with with Zimmerman with her old partner Raad so must have thought he was a good coach if she went back to him. I'm sure all the coaches were part of helping them win Junior Worlds.

  14. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by figureit View Post
    I remember that M/B had Lori Nicole?
    Lea Ann Miller




    D/F have bounced around so many times I don't think we can pinpoint exactly where each coach has helped. I'd say all of them contributed in some capacity (with their current coaches doing a good job helping them to prepare for this competition), with the main credit obviously going to the skaters themselves.

  15. #955
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    Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier won their first national pairs medal, Intermediate bronze, when they were training in Colorado with Sappenfield in the 2007-08 season (the wording in their Team USA bio doesn't make this clear). When she returned to Florida the next year, Frazier remained in Colorado and skated with Nicole Perkey for one season (5th in Intermediate at 2009 JN) before teaming up with Mandy Garza for 2 seasons (ETA: U.S. Novice 3rd & 1 JGP in 2010, U.S. Junior 5th in 2011). Denney and Frazier re-teamed in Colorado in the spring of 2011.

    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    I'd say all of them contributed in some capacity (with their current coaches doing a good job helping them to prepare for this competition), with the main credit obviously going to the skaters themselves.
    Yes.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 03-02-2013 at 12:56 AM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  16. #956

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    Quote Originally Posted by figureit View Post
    Apparently she does as Jdonavan said "Delilah had them go to Marcotte, she had them up until October I believe, and clearly they are using her technique on twist and throws".
    It sounds like Sappenfield sent them to Marcotte and it is possible she uses choreographers good ones then. Thanks for the info...interesting stuff.
    If she indeed uses outside choreography, then why do most of her pairs programs look empty? Is it to make the technical consistency possible?

    Also, does Tom Dickson do pairs choreography? He's done dance, so I would think he would.

  17. #957
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    Because usually she doesn't and the vast majority of her teams have programs choreographed by her.

  18. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdonavan View Post
    Successful pair coaches? Jury is still out...no real proof. They were at the helm when the then current National Champs and Olympians Denney/Barrett dropped to third at Nationals after leaving Peterson and missed the world team. Soon after Barrett was skewered by Denneys blade in a practice thus ending their short lived partnership.

    They have yet to put together a team on their own and in fact have always had teams drop in their laps with programs already created. It will be interesting to see what they can do in a year.
    Yeah, it will be interesting to see how Denney/ Frazier will fare next season under a full year's tutelage from John and Silvia.

    BTW, FWIW, in your post #948, you are responding to figureit's post, but since figureit did not close-quote my comment that she responded to, it's unclear in your reply post where my comments end and figureit's begin. Only the first two-and-half lines under my user name should be attributed to me, the rest is figureit's impressions.

  19. #959

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier won their first national pairs medal, Intermediate bronze, when they were training in Colorado with Sappenfield in the 2007-08 season (the wording in their Team USA bio doesn't make this clear). When she returned to Florida the next year, Frazier remained in Colorado and skated with Nicole Perkey for one season (5th in Intermediate at 2009 JN) before teaming up with Mandy Garza for 2 seasons (ETA: U.S. Novice 3rd & 1 JGP in 2010, U.S. Junior 5th in 2011). Denney and Frazier re-teamed in Colorado in the spring of 2011.


    Yes.
    Haven also won a Novice National silver medal under Peterson with Daniel Raad winning the freeskate.

  20. #960
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    Don't forget, if you can access CBC, the World Jr. Championships will be on soon. Pairs & dance scheduled to be shown.

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