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  1. #501
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    Back to C/S.

    I watched the video of their LP at NHK. I'm trying to understand their strategy in doing the Throw 2x. Does it help them gauge their ability to do a Throw 3x? I mean, I've been watching them for years and they haven't landed it in competition yet (that I'm aware of). It seems like they are working hard on PCS, so why not take the high(er) PCS marks along with a throw 3loop or 3flip? ... and they would seem more solid w/ SBS 3sals than SBS 2x's.

    Why throw away points?

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Back to C/S.

    I watched the video of their LP at NHK. I'm trying to understand their strategy in doing the Throw 2x. Does it help them gauge their ability to do a Throw 3x? I mean, I've been watching them for years and they haven't landed it in competition yet (that I'm aware of). It seems like they are working hard on PCS, so why not take the high(er) PCS marks along with a throw 3loop or 3flip? ... and they would seem more solid w/ SBS 3sals than SBS 2x's.

    Why throw away points?
    2 sets of SBS triples is really not easy even for the best jumping teams. Before last season, C/S had a toe and sal planned in the LP, but one jump or the other always end up doubled and they really struggled. They do seem to be jumping better overall this season, so maybe it's something they will explore again in the future.

    As for the throws, C/S have never had a reliable throw triple beyond the 3sal. They've never tried to compete a throw 3loop and I have no idea if they've tried to work on a throw 3flip. So for them, a throw 2A seems to be their only real way to get some points. It seems they are more comfortable trying throw 3As (some of her attempts have been good, just not so much in competition) than trying a different throw. A throw triple loop or flip would be easier than an axel for nearly everyone, but maybe for C/S it's just not. I'm sure they've at least looked into trying to get a "backup throw triple" in case the 3A never materializes, but it's a lot easier said than done.
    Last edited by stjeaskategym; 11-27-2012 at 07:44 PM.

  3. #503
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    ^^ Is it their extreme height difference that causes them difficulty with the triple throws?

  4. #504

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    There was an article somewhere a while back where one of C/S's coaches addressed the throw issue and he/she said that the throw 3axel was actually easier for Marissa than one of the the "less difficult" throws (I'm blanking on whether it was the flip or the loop).

  5. #505
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    ^Thanks to all for the explanations. I had no idea that C/S had such a small arsenal of throw jumps, and I hope they revisit the SBS 3sal for the LP

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    So are Caitlin and Josh Reagan good to go for Nationals? The didn't lose their bye or anything when they WD from both GPs?
    Yes, Yankowskas/Reagan are listed on USFS' official roster as having received a bye to Nationals.

    Senior Pairs [listed alphabetically by her last name]

    Eastern
    Tarah Kayne (Southwest Florida FSC)/Daniel O'Shea (Skokie Valley SC)
    Felicia Zhang (The SC of New York)/Nathan Bartholomay (Univ. of Delaware FSC)

    Midwestern
    Kiri Baga (FSC of Bloomington)/Taylor Toth (DuPage FSC)
    DeeDee Leng (DuPage FSC)/Timothy LeDuc (Eastern Iowa FSC)
    Alexa Scimeca (DuPage FSC)/Christopher Knierim (Broadmoor SC)

    Bye
    Marissa Castelli (The SC of Boston)/Simon Shnapir (The SC of Boston)
    Lindsay Davis (All Year FSC)/Mark Ladwig (Red River Valley FSC)
    Caydee Denney (Broadmoor SC)/John Coughlin (Kansas City FSC)
    Haven Denney (Broadmoor SC)/Brandon Frazier (All Year FSC)
    Gretchen Donlan (The SC of Boston)/Andrew Speroff (The SC of Boston)
    Tiffany Vise (Coyotes SC of Arizona)/Don Baldwin (Los Angeles FSC)
    Caitlin Yankowskas (Colonial FSC)/Joshua Reagan (Stars FSC of Texas)
    ETA trivia fact: Castelli/Shnapir have skated together the longest (since June 2006) of the 12 Senior pairs qualified for 2013 Nationals.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 11-29-2012 at 05:00 AM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  7. #507
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    Thanks Sylvia!
    Does anyone have any guesses on how these 12 teams will place at Nationals?? 1-12

  8. #508
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    Anything can happen and I don't know all of the teams that well, but based on the little I do know and per my own preferences/ guesses (and on what I've seen of those who've skated at senior Bs and GP circuit):

    Denney/ Coughlin
    Castelli/ Shnapir
    Scimeca/ Knierim
    Denney/ Frazier
    Donlan/ Speroff (if they land all their jumps, maybe 4th place)
    Zhang/ Bartholomay (perhaps 4th or 5th if they skate well and others don't)

    Kayne/ O'Shea (could also place higher)
    Davis/ Ladwig
    Vise/ Baldwin
    Yankowskas/ Reagan (if they're in shape, maybe higher)

    Toss-Up:
    Baga/ Toth
    Leng/ LeDuc

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Yes, Yankowskas/Reagan are listed on USFS' official roster as having received a bye to Nationals.
    What is the rationale for the bye, if they started neither of their GP events?

    ETA: I just found the answer (from you, Sylvia), in another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Yes, Yankowskas/Reagan received a bye to 2013 US Nationals (because there were 4 or fewer teams registered for Mids or Easterns): http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post3757828
    Many thanks!
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 11-29-2012 at 06:22 AM.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  10. #510

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Anything can happen and I don't know all of the teams that well, but based on the little I do know and per my own preferences/ guesses (and on what I've seen of those who've skated at senior Bs and GP circuit):

    Denney/ Coughlin
    Castelli/ Shnapir
    Scimeca/ Knierim
    Denney/ Frazier
    Donlan/ Speroff (if they land all their jumps, maybe 4th place)
    Zhang/ Bartholomay (perhaps 4th or 5th if they skate well and others don't)

    Kayne/ O'Shea (could also place higher)
    Davis/ Ladwig
    Vise/ Baldwin
    Yankowskas/ Reagan (if they're in shape, maybe higher)

    Toss-Up:
    Baga/ Toth
    Leng/ LeDuc
    I think your pretty close to correct....However I think you're off on Denney/Frazier being that high

  11. #511
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    With the split of E/L and M/B, the US Pairs field really got winnowed down and easier to predict. I think it may go something like this -

    1. D/C
    2. C/S

    I will say that I find it interesting that D/C clean were getting total marks around 180 pts. on the GP, while C/S w/ a couple of mistakes were not that far off, scoring 174 pts. I feel that D/C will win nationals, but C/S might be closer than expected, perhaps even leading after the SP at Nationals. D/C's SP doesn't appear to be as well received as their LP internationally

    3. S/K

    They seem very comfortably entrenched as #3 US pair w/ only 7 months together. They are nearly 20 pts. above the rest of the field! Unless they are sidelined by an unforeseen circumstance, I think they will only improve (but not enough to make the World team) and probably get a 4CC's spot.

    4. D/S

    They do tend to improve over the course of the season so I think they could still be 4th despite their disastrous early season. It is extremely frustrating to watch them botch SBS jumps time after time, and not be able to do the death spiral correctly to even get any points on the element! They are too talented for that!

    5. D/L

    Doing OK for a new team but still below expectations IMO. I think their NHK LP around 100 pts. gives them a glimmer of hope and perhaps puts them on the right track. They seemed happy afterwards and it might motivate them.

    6. V/B

    Not great performances this season so far, but their marks are consistently around the 140s; enough to land them probably 6th or so at Nationals. I''m not sure judges will gift them any benefit of the doubt because they are an 'older' couple (relatively speaking) and are most likely not part of US pairs future.

    7. Z/B

    If they show us again their promise that we saw over the Summer, they could be higher, but they've hit a rough patch with her injury. When healthy, they seem motivated to do quite well. I hope they can show us their best side by Nationals and get on the right track for the future. If they do well, and D/L or V/B perform subpar, maybe they will be as high as 5th

    ETA - I think 4th - 7th are a big muddle and anything can happen. It will depend on who has a good competition.

    8. D/F

    Not enough data this year on this 2 for me to say definitively where I think they'll be.

    *I'm not sure where to stick Y/R. They've had zero competitions this year and what they showed during the Summer competitions was a little subpar. They strike me as a couple that will have great chemistry and we might catch a glimpse of that by Nationals, but technically, I see them probably skating cautiously w/ some errors mostly due to the fact that they are new and have nothing to go on so far.


    9. Probably K/O. They're outperforming L/L and B/T just has too little pairs skills at this point

    10. L/L

    11. B/T


    It's a little embarrassing at this point that the US has only 3 pairs who have met minimum TES requirements that are eligible to skate at Worlds
    Last edited by olympic; 11-29-2012 at 06:18 PM.

  12. #512
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    My predictions

    Denney/ Coughlin - Obvious favorite
    Castelli/ Shnapir - Barring major errors, should make 2nd
    Scimeca/ Knierim - Can easily keep up technically, still have strides to make in PCS
    Zhang/ Bartholomay - Two clean programs and this team is officially on the rise

    Davis/ Ladwig - A surprising clean short has them in the running, but a couple mistakes in the FS take away the pewter medal
    Denney/ Frazier - Still missing some spark from both partners, probably one missed throw in the FS (They go to JR Worlds)
    Kayne/ O'Shea - Their first season together, don't quite have "it" yet.
    Donlan/ Speroff - Their PCS are the only thing that have them this high, as there are several glaring errors in their programs.

    Vise/ Baldwin - Team stock is dropping. Both are the past, will have to put together a truly great performance to even think about 5th place
    Leng/ Leduc - Her first year doing pairs, he needs some time in the gym (at least from the looks of it) before this team can take off.
    Baga/ Toth - Disasterous skate, Split after season... Could see her with Rockne??
    Yankowskas/ Reagan - WD
    Last edited by johndockley92; 11-29-2012 at 02:13 PM.

  13. #513
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    ^^ Yes, the top teams are fairly predictable, but sure some of my earlier guesses may be off by quite a bit re teams such as Zhang/Bartholomay; Denney/ Frazier; Davis/ Ladwig; and Kayne/ O'Shea (that's why some of my hedging) . johndockley92 you may be more on the mark. Actually, I'd love to see Donlan/ Speroff 4th and Davis/ Ladwig 5th at the least.

    I think Donlan/Speroff would obviously be considered more in the running for 3rd or 4th had they started off with more of a bang this season. And of course Yank/Reagan right now have shown nothing due to being injured/ not in shape/ not together long enough/ too many high expectations projected right after they joined up.

    Hmmm, interesting (and rather yummy speculation) re a Baga and Brubaker pairing; even their initials have the "IT" factor ... I wonder why Baga/ Toth are having such problems jelling/ gelling?
    Last edited by aftershocks; 11-29-2012 at 02:30 PM.

  14. #514
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    Baga is actually short enough for Rockne too ------------------ I don't know exactly the problem, but he seems like a bit of a diva, trying to be the star of the team (the star should be the girl). They only have one planned 5Li which is pretty bad for senior, it means that he can't do two lassos consistently (it's worth more, points-wise, and almost all senior teams do two lasso lifts).

  15. #515
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    I just watched C/S the other day on youtube and am not surprised they won bronze at NHK. My mom loved them the first time she saw them at SA and I have to say they blew me away also; they're even better in person if that's possible, whereas I have to be honest I was a little disappointed in my favorite pair ~ D/S ~ they were better on t.v. then in person as far as their skating goes; their looks that's a whole other ballgame, they look like movie stars; he Brad Pitt/Leonardo Dicaprio, she Katia Gordeeva/Kate Middleton. But their skating was simply not in the league of D/C & C/S, whom were both powerful, excitiing, fast, dynamic and on a whole other level. In fact I'm hoping they can manage some combo. of 13 at Worlds, either 5+8 or 6+7. Crossing my fingers for them!

    I see D/S coming into their own on a gradual basis, like Evora & Ladwig did, they just have to keep with it, keep working hard, don't get discouraged, their time will come, set their sights on the 2018 Olympics. In the meantime keep plugging away at gaining more speed & power, landing their sbs jumps, gaining consistency, upping the difficulty on their lifts, taking it one day at a time, one new element at a time, a new one every year. Jmho, because they have everything else in spades.

    As for the rest, to be honest none of them impress me, can't even be bothered to watch any of their GP assignments, a youtube video, et al. Once was enough.

    I'm way more excited about the junior pairs of Aaron/Settlage (my fav) and the pair that did a phenomenal performance to "Titanic" last year. She's something else. I saw her skate with her old partner and then her new one. Both pairings were terrific. Cant' wait to see both of these junior pair teams enter seniors in 2014.

  16. #516

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    Quote Originally Posted by NadineWhite View Post
    I just watched C/S the other day on youtube and am not surprised they won bronze at NHK. My mom loved them the first time she saw them at SA and I have to say they blew me away also; they're even better in person if that's possible, whereas I have to be honest I was a little disappointed in my favorite pair ~ D/S ~ they were better on t.v. then in person as far as their skating goes.
    I think D/S haven't quite reached the point where their basic skating is consistently great, no matter how nervous or off they are. Having seen them at skating shows around Boston for the past few years, they can be -worthy with sweeping edges and great lines, but I'm not sure that always translates into their competitive programs. Once it does, they should start doing extremely well.

  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by johndockley92 View Post
    Baga is actually short enough for Rockne too ------------------ I don't know exactly the problem, but he seems like a bit of a diva, trying to be the star of the team (the star should be the girl). They only have one planned 5Li which is pretty bad for senior, it means that he can't do two lassos consistently (it's worth more, points-wise, and almost all senior teams do two lasso lifts).
    I get the gist you are referring to Baga's current partner.


    NadineWhite, who are the junior pair who skated "a phenomenal performance to Titanic last year"? Is there a vid available? I too hope that Donlan/ Speroff keep working at it and don't give up.

  18. #518

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post


    NadineWhite, who are the junior pair who skated "a phenomenal performance to Titanic last year"? Is there a vid available? I too hope that Donlan/ Speroff keep working at it and don't give up.
    Simpson/Blackmer did the Titanic program. They are staying Jr for Nats. They had a rough JGP season (compared to last yr when they made the JGPF). I worry there isnt enough size difference between them.

    Their Titanic LP from the JGPF last year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjHQkaKW_U4

  19. #519
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    ^^ Oh yes, thanks. Of course, I know who they are by name, and I have seen this performance before. Thanks for posting it and for citing them by name.

    Simpson/ Blackmer do seem to have a lot of potential as a pair. They made JGPF last season, but not this season. Unfortunately, pairs in the U.S. have seen so many splits and musical chairs teaming up over the years. Hopefully, S/B will last.

  20. #520
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    A little down time at work.

    Here is a list of top 2 international scores / top domestic score or 2 (in parentheses) so far this season for those US pairs competing as Seniors at Nationals:

    1. Denney/Coughlin 179.21 178.90 (172.16)
    2. Castelli/Shnapir 174.86 174.51 (165.74)
    3. Scimeca/Knierim 163.10 156.00 (158.63)
    4. Donlan/Speroff 145.35 135.43 (150.00)
    5. Davis/Ladwig 143.70 122.26 (144.35)
    6. Vise/Baldwin 143.34 143.15 (138.68)
    7. Zhang/Bartholomay 143.32 (150.05)
    8. Kayne/O'Shea (150.50) (137.72)
    9. Denney/Frazier 127.33 (150.08)
    10.Baga/Toth (119.41) (106.73)
    11.Leng/Leduc (113.44)
    12.Yankowskas/Reagan ?

    Look at the muddle from 4th - 7th. Pewter is really up for grabs!

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