US Pairs 2012-13 news & updates

[Rochelle]

What are D/C's chances at the GPF w/ 2 bronze medals??

Possible, but not too looking likely.

Current Grand Prix pairs standings:
http://www.isuresults.com/events/gp2012/gpspairs.htm

Already qualified ahead of them:
Volosozhar/Trankov = 15 + 15 = 30 pts
Pang/Tong = 13 + 15 = 28 pts
Denney/Coughlin = 11 + 11 = 22 pts

Still to compete:

TEB France field:
Savchenko/Szolkowy = 15 + (TEB)
Duhamel/Radford = 13 + (TEB)
Kavaguti/Smirnov = 13 + (TEB)
Stolbova/Klimov = 11 + (TEB)
Berton/Hotarek = 11 + (TEB)

NHK Japan pairs field:
Barsoza + Larionov = 13 + (NHK)
Moore-Towers/Moscovitch = 9 + (NHK)
Castelli/Shnapir = 7 + (NHK)
Maritusheva/Rogonov = 7 + (NHK)
Della Monica/Guarise = 0 + (NHK)
Davis/Ladwig = 0 + (NHK)
Scimeca/Knierim = (No other GP)

[Sylvia]

Re-posting from earlier in this thread:

By my count, 12 Senior teams are scheduled to compete at 2013 Nationals.

6 teams from last season: Denney/Coughlin, Donlan/Speroff, Castelli/Shnapir, Zhang/Bartholomay, Vise/Baldwin, H. Denney/Frazier (J1).
New teams (6): Davis/Ladwig, Scimeca/Knierim, Yankowskas/Reagan, Baga/Toth, Kayne/O'Shea, Leng/LeDuc.

I've updated the latest international scores for the U.S. Pairs here: http://unseenskaters.wordpress.com/s...-pairs-scores/

In the Mids Senior Pairs SP today, Scimeca/Knierim scored 57.09, DeeDee Leng/Timothy LeDuc 47.30, Kiri Baga/Taylor Toth 45.10 - link to detailed protocol: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leade...8/SEGM030.html

ETA that Felicia Zhang is injured and so Zhang/Bartholomay are skating through their elements at Easterns in order to qualify for Nationals. I've heard she should be back on the ice to train in about 2 weeks. Tarah Kayne/Danny O'Shea scored 43.68 in their Easterns Sr SP to "My Fair Lady" - link to detailed protocol: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leade...7/SEGM025.html

[olympic]

Possible, but not too looking likely.

Current Grand Prix pairs standings:
http://www.isuresults.com/events/gp2012/gpspairs.htm

Already qualified ahead of them:
Volosozhar/Trankov = 15 + 15 = 30 pts
Pang/Tong = 13 + 15 = 28 pts
Denney/Coughlin = 11 + 11 = 22 pts

Still to compete:

TEB France field:
Savchenko/Szolkowy = 15 + (TEB)
Duhamel/Radford = 13 + (TEB)
Kavaguti/Smirnov = 13 + (TEB)
Stolbova/Klimov = 11 + (TEB)
Berton/Hotarek = 11 + (TEB)

NHK Japan pairs field:
Barsoza + Larionov = 13 + (NHK)
Moore-Towers/Moscovitch = 9 + (NHK)
Castelli/Shnapir = 7 + (NHK)
Maritusheva/Rogonov = 7 + (NHK)
Della Monica/Guarise = 0 + (NHK)
Davis/Ladwig = 0 + (NHK)
Scimeca/Knierim = (No other GP)

Well, too bad. It looks like there is an abundance of talent still to go

[reese]

So are Caitlin and Josh Reagan good to go for Nationals? The didn't lose their bye or anything when they WD from both GPs?

[stjeaskategym]

ETA that Felicia Zhang is injured and so Zhang/Bartholomay are skating through their elements at Easterns in order to qualify for Nationals. I've heard she should be back on the ice to train in about 2 weeks.

Was this actually necessary? Don't the skaters have the option of not competing when there are only 2 pairs at the event? Some pairs elect to not even show up at Sectionals because there's such a lack of competition these days. So why was injured Felicia out there marking through elements?

[haribobo]

Once they mark that they will compete whether or not less than 4 show up on their form, I'm pretty sure they have to skate regardless. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.

[shan]

cute caricature of the Boston pairs. (I don't think this has been posted.)
http://twitter.com/_ohheyjamie/statu...745728/photo/1

[stjeaskategym]

Once they mark that they will compete whether or not less than 4 show up on their form, I'm pretty sure they have to skate regardless. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.

Thanks for the info. So when you register for Sectionals, you have to indicate whether you will attend the competition in the event that less than 4 competitors are signed up? That makes some sense...It does help prevent last minute withdrawals. But at the same time, the pairs who commit to attending run the risk of getting injured and being "forced" out onto the ice anyway in order to maintain their Nationals berth. In that case, it's definitely safer to just sit at home. Luckily Felicia's not on crutches or anything.. That would be quite a sight watching her limp and hobble around on the slippery ice with those things. This is just another example of USFS putting their silly rules before the health of their athletes.

[stjeaskategym]

Once they mark that they will compete whether or not less than 4 show up on their form, I'm pretty sure they have to skate regardless. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.

Thanks for the info. So when you register for Sectionals, you have to indicate whether you will attend the competition in the event that less than 4 competitors are signed up? That makes some sense...It does help prevent last minute withdrawals. But at the same time, the pairs who commit to attending run the risk of getting injured and being "forced" out onto the ice anyway in order to maintain their Nationals berth. In that case, it's definitely safer to just sit at home. Luckily Felicia's not on crutches or anything.. That would be quite a sight watching her limp and hobble around on the slippery ice with those things. This is just another example of USFS putting their silly rules before the health of their athletes.


This also makes me wonder about Yankowskas/Reagan. Now that they've withdrawn from their GPs, does their chance to go to Nationals depend upon whether or not they initially agreed to compete at Sectionals in the event that 4 or fewer pairs signed up? If that's the case, hopefully they said that they would NOT attend if there are less than 4 pairs... That way, even though they're injured, they're safe because they weren't planning on going to Sectionals anyway. These rules are horrible, they really are.

[madm]

Once they mark that they will compete whether or not less than 4 show up on their form, I'm pretty sure they have to skate regardless. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.

Yes, re: the "4 or fewer rule", you have to compete if you say you will when you register for the qualifying season. If you do not show up to compete, you're out regardless of how many teams enter the event. The only exception is if you are the only team (an event with 1 competitor), and then USFS gives you the option to do an exhibition or to cancel the event. USFS and the LOCs need to plan ahead to schedule all events and to recruit judges for all of the events. They can't be continually adjusting the number of events and judge assignments every time someone is injured. Many times I have seen an injured team simply walk through the elements so that they can get through the Sectional qualifying requirement and make it to Nationals. I know it seems ridiculous, but it is the rule. Once I saw a pair team do just one element during the SP to get a small score, and they were reprimanded by the referee afterwards and told they needed to make an attempt to complete the FS program even if they did very simple elements. It is not sufficient to just stand on the ice and do nothing.

[madm]

Forgot to mention that the reason teams skate when there are 4 or fewer teams competing is to get some mileage on their programs. It is a very long time in between the last summer competition and Nationals. Teams need to compete between Sept-Dec, either at Sectionals or at a SeniorB/GP event. Most teams elect to compete rather than save themselves from possible injury at Sectionals. Once in a while teams elect to skip Sectionals to save the money too.

[Tammi]

This is just another example of USFS putting their silly rules before the health of their athletes.

I remember years ago, there were medical byes out of qualifying rounds due to injury. I imagine those reporting injuries became too high and a decision had to be made. Either set up a complex set of rules that define an injury or simply remove the medical bye rule all together. It must have been a vote at Governing Council at some point, I just don't remember the time frame.

[johndockley92]

So what have we learned about pairs following sectionals?

Strong showing by S/K and Aaron/ Settlage

Weak showing by baba/toth and leng/leduc

Kayne/O'shea were okay.

Curious turn around by calalang/sidhu from the short to the fs

Finally showing some of their potential is oltmanns/sant.

Surprisingly weak performance by fields/pacini, also expected a big win by pfund/reiss...

Strong novice teams from mids. Weak ones from easterns.

What were all your thoughts?

[reese]

So what have we learned about pairs following sectionals?

Strong showing by S/K and Aaron/ Settlage

Weak showing by baba/toth and leng/leduc

Kayne/O'shea were okay.

Curious turn around by calalang/sidhu from the short to the fs

Finally showing some of their potential is oltmanns/sant.

Surprisingly weak performance by fields/pacini, also expected a big win by pfund/reiss...

Strong novice teams from mids. Weak ones from easterns.

What were all your thoughts?

I thought Baga/Toth looked awful. Not only did they totally abort 2 of the 3 lifts in the LP, but they also looked like the were forgetting the choreo/making it up as they went. They also looked pissed off at each other, especially leaving the ice after the LP. I'm hoping they have enough time to work on stuff before Nationals. I was so excited about their potential when they teamed up.

[Vash01]

How can D&C be already qualified for GPF? K&S, S&K are yet to compete. B&L could move ahead of D&C. It certainly helped D&C that S&H and T&T had to withdraw, and S&S might be in only one GP (can they be allowed to skate at NHK if there is a withdrawal there?). The two Canadian pairs D&R and M-M&M could finish ahead of D&C, and even H&B may have a chance.

[Sylvia]

How can D&C be already qualified for GPF?

No one said they were? With Savchenko/Szolkowy's WD from TEB, Denney/Coughlin (2 bronzes, 22 points) could end up as first alternates to the GPF if the next 2 GP pair results go as expected.

ETA:
The Junior Pairs event at Nationals is looking pretty wide open at this point, and so it will come down, as usual, to which pairs are able to skate the cleanest. The 3 teams for Junior Worlds are likely going to be selected from Aaron/Settlage (their JGP bronze was the only medal won by a U.S. pair this fall), Calalang/Sidhu, Pfund/Reiss, Simpson/Blackmer, and Denney/Frazier (making their Senior debut at Nationals), with de la Mora/Wilson and Oltmanns/Santillan as darkhorses if they can skate their very best.

The new team of Kaitlin Budd & Russian-born Nikita Cheban had the highest score of all the Novice pairs at Sectionals (if the one listing I found of his birthdate being July 3, 1992 is correct, then he is ISU Junior age-eligible for one more season in 2012-13), followed by the JGP pair of Christina "Divette" Zaitsev/Ernie Utah Stevens and Elise Middleton/Robert Hennings, who were 4th and 5th in Novice at 2012 Nationals, respectively. Hopefully the fill-up rule applied to the Mids 5th place team (wish the 6th place team could be included as well).

From the USFS Rulebook (the underlined section was revised for this season):

2512 Fill-Up Rule: Competitors at a sectional championship may progress directly to the U.S. Figure Skating Championships if, at the close of entries, there are four or fewer competitors in a senior, junior or novice event.
A. For pair and ice dance events only, additional competitors from the same event in other sections will be permitted to enter in order to bring the number of competitors up to a maximum of 12 (or more, if ties make it necessary). These additional competitors will be selected in the order of their placement. Should this result in two or more competitors qualifying for one additional place, all will be included, even if this causes the total
number of competitors in the event to exceed 12. 1. If a pair or ice dance event already has 12 or more competitors due to international byes and/or automatic invitations (rules 2515-2521), there will be no fill-ups to the U.S. Figure Skating Championships for that event.

[kwanfan1818]

To summarize, and please, correct me where I'm wrong, the bye rules are:

• The top five skaters/teams at Nationals get a bye to Nationals the next year.
• For singles, if a skater is assigned to two GP's, that skater gets a bye to Sectionals.
• If a skater/team is assigned to an international competition within a certain time range of Regionals (singles) or Sectionals (singles and teams) and doesn't already have a bye, the skater/team is given a bye if they travel to and begin the international competition (by precedent).
  
  Is that two weeks +/- the international competition?
• If a skater/team without a bye checks off on the Nationals application that it won't compete at Sectionals (singles and teams) if there are less than four signed up, and less than four sign up, that skater/team has a bye to Nationals.
  
  Does this apply to Regionals as well, moving the skater automatically to Sectionals?
  Is it less than four or <+ four?
• If a skater/team without a bye checks off on the Nationals application that it will compete at Sectionals (singles and teams) if there are less than four signed up, and that team is the only one who signs up, then the skater/team has the option of skating or performing in the exhibition and receiving a bye to Nationals.

If a skater doesn't have a bye for Regionals (singles) or Sectionals (singles and teams), the skater must compete at the qualifying competition and place high enough, or that skater can't compete at the next level.

Do all of the number of participant rules apply to all disciplines, even if they rarely or never happen? Do these apply equally to Juniors competing at international competitions, whether they're in enrolled in Junior or Senior competitions? Do any of the Juniors get a bye to Senior Nationals based on placement at Junior Nationals, if they move up?

[Sylvia]

kwanfan1818, I'll try and answer you in the Byes thread in the Trash Can if you repost there?

ETA: I've since posted the relevant bye rules from the current USFS rule book in that thread and replied to some of your questions there as well: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post3745038

I assume that Davis/Ladwig received a bye to Nationals because they had registered at either Pacific Coasts or Mids and elected not to compete if there were 4 or fewer teams registered at their Sectional (3 Sr. pairs competed at Mids and none at Pacifics). Even though D/L ended up receiving a second GP (Skate Canada), their original assignment (NHK) by itself did not give them a bye through Sectionals, AFAIK.

[jdonavan]

So what have we learned about pairs following sectionals?

Strong showing by S/K and Aaron/ Settlage

Weak showing by baba/toth and leng/leduc

Kayne/O'shea were okay.

Curious turn around by calalang/sidhu from the short to the fs

Finally showing some of their potential is oltmanns/sant.

Surprisingly weak performance by fields/pacini, also expected a big win by pfund/reiss...

Strong novice teams from mids. Weak ones from easterns.

What were all your thoughts?

Thought Kayne and O'Shea were better than "Okay". Such potential...and they actually land jumps! They didn't have the strangely huge Mids component marks to have a great score...hmmm guess well see in Omaha

[stjeaskategym]

They didn't have the strangely huge Mids component marks to have a great score...hmmm guess well see in Omaha

Who had "strangely huge" component marks at Mids? The PCS were really quite ordinary for the most part. Looking at the protocols for Kayne/O'Shea, they had a few falls/issues, and that can definitely affect PCS somewhat.