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  1. #21

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    AFAIR, I&B also used Mills for choreo a number of times, so it's no surprise that he's doing V&B's choreo..

  2. #22

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    Interesting article about throw jumps with quotes by Amanda Evora, Timothy LeDuc, Taylor Toth, Marissa Castelli, Britney Simpson, and coach Bobby Martin: http://www.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    Castelli and Shnapir have recently started doing throw quadruple Salchows, and they are considering adding the jump to their programs next season.

    "I landed my first quad about two weeks ago," Castelli said Sunday. "I landed it the first day we tried it. I've been having issues with the triple sal because I finish the rotation so early -- I have huge hang time. Two weeks ago Mark Mitchell was like, 'Your sal is so huge, you can do quad.' And the next session he was like, 'I'll bribe you to do a quad.' We rotated it, and I was surprised how good it felt. I've been practicing them ever since and I love it -- it's a great feeling to fly through the air."
    ETA: Harrison Choate filmed the video of "Castelli & Shnapir - Quad Throw Salchow" that's linked from the article (under the "Related Content" header).

    ETA #2: @dscclub tweeted today that Denney/Coughlin are visiting Detroit Skating Club this week to work with choreographer Pasquale Camerlengo.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 05-16-2012 at 09:56 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  3. #23

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    Boy do I wish that C&S could get the SBS jumps. They look so good in all the other respects.

  4. #24
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    Wow - that quad throw salchow looked so easy! Wonder if they'll put that in their program instead of the throw triple axel.

    Very interesting article.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  5. #25
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    All power to C/S with a throw Quad. If it's easier for them, then they should go for it.

    I more wish he would get the SBS jumps though. He even struggles with the 2x

  6. #26

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    Senior Grand Prix initial assignments for US Pairs (10 slots, 7 teams for now):
    Two: Denney/Coughlin (Skate America/Russia), Marley/Brubaker (Canada/Japan)
    One: Donlan/Speroff (Skate America), Castelli/Shnapir (Japan), Vise/Baldwin (Canada), Yankowskas/Reagan (China), Davis/Ladwig (Japan), TBA at Skate America

    Possible Senior B and/or consideration for Skate America TBA:
    Felicia Zhang & Nate Bartholomay (S8)
    Kylie Duarte & Colin Grafton (J3 / JW8; she has aged out of ISU Junior events)

    Junior Grand Prix age-eligible pairs currently listed in USFS' International Selection Pool (9 teams):
    Haven Denney & Brandon Frazier (J1 / JW4)
    Britney Simpson & Matthew Blackmer (J2 / JW10 / JGPF3)
    Jessica Noelle Calalang & Zack Sidhu (J4 / qualified for JGPF but WD)
    Madeline Aaron & Max Settlage (J6)
    Olivia Oltmanns & Joshua Santillan (J9)
    Yet to compete on JGP:
    Jessica Pfund & AJ Reiss (J5) - won Jr. gold at Challenge Cup in March
    Brianna de la Mora & Taylor Wilson (J8)
    Audrey Goldberg & Joseph Dolkiewicz (J10)
    Christina Zaitsev & Ernie Utah Stevens (N4)
    Last edited by Sylvia; 05-21-2012 at 06:12 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  7. #27

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    Couldn't be happier for Donlan/Speroff!

  8. #28
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    Angry Pairs GP

    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Senior Grand Prix initial assignments for US Pairs (10 slots, 7 teams for now):
    Two: Denney/Coughlin (Skate America/Russia), Marley/Brubaker (Canada/Japan)
    One: Donlan/Speroff (Skate America), Castelli/Shnapir (Japan), Vise/Baldwin (Canada), Yankowskas/Reagan (China), Davis/Ladwig (Japan), TBA at Skate America

    Possible Senior B:
    Felicia Zhang & Nate Bartholomay (S8)
    Kylie Duarte & Colin Grafton (J3 / JW8; she has aged out of ISU Junior events)

    Junior Grand Prix age-eligible pairs currently listed in USFS' International Selection Pool (9 teams):
    Haven Denney & Brandon Frazier (J1 / JW4)
    Britney Simpson & Matthew Blackmer (J2 / JW10 / JGPF3)
    Jessica Noelle Calalang & Zack Sidhu (J4 / qualified for JGPF but WD)
    Madeline Aaron & Max Settlage (J6)
    Olivia Oltmanns & Joshua Santillan (J9)
    Yet to compete on JGP:
    Jessica Pfund & AJ Reiss (J5) - won Jr. gold at Challenge Cup in March
    Brianna de la Mora & Taylor Wilson (J8)
    Audrey Goldberg & Joseph Dolkiewicz (J10)
    Christina Zaitsev & Ernie Utah Stevens (N4)
    OK what's up with Vise/Baldwin getting Canada? The looked BAD at nationals. And no GP of Z/B? Looks like bad judgement?

  9. #29

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    Vise/Baldwin are ranked #20 on the ISU Season Best total scores list (top 24 are guaranteed 1 GP).
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by winterone View Post
    OK what's up with Vise/Baldwin getting Canada? The looked BAD at nationals. And no GP of Z/B? Looks like bad judgement?
    There World Rankings are much higher as they have done a number of GP's. Z/B are pretty much unproven, but hopefully they have a good summer showing, get Oberstdorf and have a good showing and get some points and get the TBA for SA.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by carriemarie View Post
    There World Rankings are much higher as they have done a number of GP's. Z/B are pretty much unproven, but hopefully they have a good summer showing, get Oberstdorf and have a good showing and get some points and get the TBA for SA.
    Thanks for clearing this up !

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Couldn't be happier for Donlan/Speroff!

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Interesting article about throw jumps with quotes by Amanda Evora, Timothy LeDuc, Taylor Toth, Marissa Castelli, Britney Simpson, and coach Bobby Martin: http://www.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news


    ETA: Harrison Choate filmed the video of "Castelli & Shnapir - Quad Throw Salchow" that's linked from the article (under the "Related Content" header).

    ETA #2: @dscclub tweeted today that Denney/Coughlin are visiting Detroit Skating Club this week to work with choreographer Pasquale Camerlengo.
    Besides C/S (very good) throw 4 Salchow, (loud) whispers of other US teams working on the higher end pair elements: Denney/Coughlin 4 twist, a Marley/Brubaker throw 3 Axel, and a Zhang/Bartholomay throw 4 salchow. US Pairs must see the obvious need for added Technical fireworks...

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by carriemarie View Post
    Besides C/S (very good) throw 4 Salchow, (loud) whispers of other US teams working on the higher end pair elements: Denney/Coughlin 4 twist, a Marley/Brubaker throw 3 Axel, and a Zhang/Bartholomay throw 4 salchow. US Pairs must see the obvious need for added Technical fireworks...
    I'm glad to see they're upping the ante technically, but I wish some teams would work more on basic skating. (Not to say that they aren't working now, but...)

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by shan View Post
    I'm glad to see they're upping the ante technically, but I wish some teams would work more on basic skating. (Not to say that they aren't working now, but...)
    I agree. The US teams have never been far behind in technical scores, it is the component scores that hurt them internationally. Stoking, lift positions, line, extension and posture are all things the US team should be focusing more attention on. Not that is it isn't commendable that they are upping the ante technically, but improvement on the component side is what the majority of US teams need and quite possibly would reap more points without more risk.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by shan View Post
    I'm glad to see they're upping the ante technically, but I wish some teams would work more on basic skating. (Not to say that they aren't working now, but...)
    hear hear

    D/C - work on skating skills. Perhaps another SBS triple and upping the levels on non-jump elements would work

    M/B - work on coming together more and let her just continue to develop as a top notch pairs lady. Perhaps get another SBS triple

    C/S - try a different approach in getting him to land jumps

    D/S - see above - landing SBS jumps

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by shan View Post
    I'm glad to see they're upping the ante technically, but I wish some teams would work more on basic skating. (Not to say that they aren't working now, but...)
    This!

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by hippychick View Post
    Not that is it isn't commendable that they are upping the ante technically, but improvement on the component side is what the majority of US teams need and quite possibly would reap more points without more risk.
    Problem is it's very hard to break down years of skating around with bad posture and develop good extension, whereas it might be easier to work on a harder throw jump. I can think of quite a few skaters who really tried to improve their basic skating (Tim Goebel and Scott Smith come to mind) and while they both looked quite good in practice sessions from what people said, it seems that once you put them back on the ice in a competition setting, all the previous bad habits, stiff knees and hunched shoulders came back too.

    Add in the additional factor of trying to match your partner when it comes to stroking and extension and this is an even harder goal. I only skated adult pairs for about a year and sometimes fixing something led to a whole bunch of problems since the whole timing of the program and steps leading into an element would also need to change. Maybe once people stop treating pairs as a dumping ground ('she has an iffy 3toe and really scratchy crossovers, but she's short, so PAIRS it is!'), the program could start going somewhere.

    That's also why when pairs skaters really do improve their basics and unision over time -like Evora and Ladwig did- they should get more recognitition and

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hippychick View Post
    I agree. The US teams have never been far behind in technical scores, it is the component scores that hurt them internationally. Stoking, lift positions, line, extension and posture are all things the US team should be focusing more attention on. Not that is it isn't commendable that they are upping the ante technically, but improvement on the component side is what the majority of US teams need and quite possibly would reap more points without more risk.
    Quote Originally Posted by ioana View Post
    Problem is it's very hard to break down years of skating around with bad posture and develop good extension, whereas it might be easier to work on a harder throw jump. I can think of quite a few skaters who really tried to improve their basic skating (Tim Goebel and Scott Smith come to mind) and while they both looked quite good in practice sessions from what people said, it seems that once you put them back on the ice in a competition setting, all the previous bad habits, stiff knees and hunched shoulders came back too.

    Add in the additional factor of trying to match your partner when it comes to stroking and extension and this is an even harder goal. I only skated adult pairs for about a year and sometimes fixing something led to a whole bunch of problems since the whole timing of the program and steps leading into an element would also need to change. Maybe once people stop treating pairs as a dumping ground ('she has an iffy 3toe and really scratchy crossovers, but she's short, so PAIRS it is!'), the program could start going somewhere.

    That's also why when pairs skaters really do improve their basics and unision over time -like Evora and Ladwig did- they should get more recognitition and
    I agree with both of you, but two things about upping the technical ante: the upside is the PCS bump given to the teams with big technical elements, especially as they near the top ranks, not to mention the GOE bump, like Sui/Han getting mega GOE on a 4TW where she landed draped over him. The downsides are that if the skaters don't get the PCS bump, they've invested a lot of training to get the bigger elements, which can hurt the timing of other elements -- for example, if they can't/won't do a 4Tw in the SP, the timing of the 3Tw might go awry -- and secondly, if the GOE is graded properly, it could suffer with the harder elements.

    Assuming a pairs keep its harder triple throw and replaces the easier one with the quad, the difference in base between a 3STh (4.5) and a 4STh (8.0) is 3.5. If GOE doesn't decrease in net (bigger scale for Th4S) for the quad throw, and there's no PCS bump for it, that team would have to up their PCS by an average of .56 with the 3ThS. For a team like C/S, the quad throw could put them on the map as more than an asterisk, if the rest of their program held up.

    For D/C, whose 3LzTw was L1 in both the SP and FS, the difference between a 3LzTw (5.0) and a 4LzTw (7.1) is 2.1. In the FS, they'd need to raise their PCS by .525 each to gain those points, without any PCS bump for big elements.

    D/C have a big upside in raising their PCS as well, because there are only a few teams like the Zhangs that won Olympic medals in the CoP era with mediocre PCS buoyed by the big tricks. By time P/T won silver, they had vastly improved in this area.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  20. #40

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    New article on the U.S. junior champs Haven Denney & Brandon Frazier - they plan to compete junior internationally and senior nationally in the coming season and their programs were choreographed by Julie Marcotte: http://www.goldenskate.com/2012/05/s...y-and-frazier/
    They will debut their senior level SP program at Broadmoor Open in June and both their senior programs at Skate Detroit in July.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 05-28-2012 at 02:42 AM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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