View Poll Results: Which performance do you prefer?

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  • Peggy Fleming, 1968 USN (Tchai 6/La Traviata/Samson et Dalila/The Thieving Magpie)

    6 13.04%
  • Janet Lynn, 1972 USN (Pagliacci/Sunset/Leonore Overture No. 3)

    26 56.52%
  • Michelle Kwan, 1979 USN (Selections by Xenakis; a cynical bid to outvoid Allen Schramm et al...)

    9 19.57%
  • Thinking of a color between red and blue...

    5 10.87%
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  1. #1

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    Battle of the Old-School U.S. Ladies: Fleming vs. Lynn

    Because it's the off-season:

    Peggy Fleming, 1968 US Nationals

    or

    Janet Lynn, 1972 US Nationals?

    I'm just interested to see how others vote and in reading what people here have to say. I will say that this is one of those instances in which my viewing taste diverges from my critical judgment; the latter says Lynn but I vote for Fleming on account of the former.
    Last edited by falling_dance; 05-04-2012 at 02:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    I voted for Janet Lynn because she has everything I like : powerful but elegant, technique and artistry, interpretation, freedom...

  3. #3
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    What exactly was Lynn's problem with the figures? She had such nice edges free-skating. Was it nerves?

  4. #4
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    Michelle Kwan 1979??

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Michelle Kwan 1979??
    You don't remember?! The mylar space suit and helmet? The three false endings? Kwan and Carroll wrapped in multicolored furs and chain-smoking in the Kiss and Cry? Chris Schenkel and Dick Button arguing over whether the program was inspired by 2001 or the then upcoming release of Alien? The ponderous sarcasm in later accounts of it?

    The late Seventies. Those were the days!

  6. #6
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    Well, at least I know the answer to option #4

    Can't choose between these ladies. All I know is, all three are inspirational! Figure skating wouldn't hold as many lovely memories as it does for me without 'em.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    What exactly was Lynn's problem with the figures? She had such nice edges free-skating. Was it nerves?
    Anyone would have had difficulty going up against Beatrix Schuba, arguably the best tracer of figures ever.

    In Sapporo there were six figures, making 60% of the total score.
    http://www.sports-reference.com/olym...y-figures.html

    She had an insurmountable lead going into the FS

    Sapporo Olympic Ladies Compulsory Figure - Trixi/Janet
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTDLjhTUMbA
    Last edited by skatesindreams; 05-03-2012 at 11:11 PM. Reason: to add comment and links

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    What exactly was Lynn's problem with the figures? She had such nice edges free-skating. Was it nerves?
    She said it was the figures that held her back at 72 Worlds, not the mistakes she made in the short program. She said she missed the loop on her loop and did a fish (a very tiny misshapen loop) instead.

    Figures take a lot of patience, and you have to press hard to complete the turns as there is no stroking going into them. A totally different skill than freeskating. Freeskaters often jump their turns when doing fast footwork.

  9. #9
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    Thank God they got rid of the figures. Schuba looked and skated like a truck driver in the LP in Sapporo. No elegance at all.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    She said it was the figures that held her back at 72 Worlds, not the mistakes she made in the short program. She said she missed the loop on her loop and did a fish (a very tiny misshapen loop) instead.
    Actually there was no short program in 1972. Short programs did not begin until 1973.

    I loved Janet Lynn's 1972 Nationals, but her 1973 Nationals is one of my favorite skating performances of all time. Her musical interpretation of the Debussy/Ravel music was simply sublime. I also loved her 1970 Nationals performance.

    Much as I love Peggy Fleming's skating, Janet will always win over her and any other female skater, with the exception of Midori Ito, because for me, Janet Lynn's skating was magical.

  11. #11

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    Michelle Kwan skated in 1979???

    I voted for her anyway.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    What exactly was Lynn's problem with the figures? She had such nice edges free-skating. Was it nerves?
    I've read different things including that she could do beautiful figures in practice but tended to crumple in competition (which also affected her free-skating though not as much).

    But even if her figures were much better there was still no way to catch Schuba, she would just be more competitive with Karen Magnussen for silver.

    I think that if Schuba hadn't existed Lynn's relatively weak mental game would have kept her from the olympic and world gold. But people wouldn't have minded her losing gold to Magnussen who was an excellent free skater too or maybe even Julie Lynn Holmes, who was a little tame as a free skater but very photogenic.

    One thing people forget is that Peggy Fleming had a commanding lead after figures in 1968 at Grenoble. She was good enough in the free to place first but it didn't matter. Even if she placed third in the free skating behind Seyfert and Maskova (both more interesting free skaters than Fleming in her eligible days imho) she still would have won easily.

  13. #13
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    I personally find Peggy Fleming one of the most overrated skaters ever. She used the same long program almost her whole career which I found somewhat tacky, her spins barely have any revolutions, and her overall skating just lacked command, power, and panache for me. Plus her Olympic winning LP was majorly lame. I love her as a commentator and representative of the sport much more than as a skater. Actually the show skating I saw her do as an older women later on was much more appealing to me than her amateur skating ever was.

    Janet Lynn by a landslide for me.

  14. #14

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    In 1968 figures made up 60% of the total score.
    With enough of a lead, which Peggy had, she won despite her lackluster FS.

    Details, including scores, here:
    http://www.sports-reference.com/olym...y-figures.html

    Use the drop-down menu for information on the free skate.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I personally find Peggy Fleming one of the most overrated skaters ever. She used the same long program almost her whole career which I found somewhat tacky, her spins barely have any revolutions, and her overall skating just lacked command, power, and panache for me. Plus her Olympic winning LP was majorly lame. I love her as a commentator and representative of the sport much more than as a skater. Actually the show skating I saw her do as an older women later on was much more appealing to me than her amateur skating ever was.

    Janet Lynn by a landslide for me.
    Come on, you may think Peggy was "overrated," but if you are not looking at her career within the context of the era in which she skated, IMO, you are underrating her skating and her accomplishments.

  16. #16
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    Peggy was the BEST skater of her era without a doubt. My Mum always remembered her as the first lady who blended beauty with athleticism and while Burka, Maskova and Seyfert were better jumpers, they never had the package Peggy had. Add in her utter dominance of compulsory figures and she is hands down the best ladies all around skater of the 1960's.

    That said, Peggy's skating package was really just a masterpiece of planning and preparation. Her free skating, while lovely, always lacked spontaneity and when compared to Janet Lynn, pales in comparison. Janet always had that instinctive, spontaneous quality to her work and Slavka just nurtured and refined what was already there. No major image or style overhaul necessary. I have watched so many of Janet's great amateur performances over and over and always manage to find something new. To my mind Janet was, and still is, the greatest female artistic skater to ever grace the sport. Her musicality is simply unmatched.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I personally find Peggy Fleming one of the most overrated skaters ever. She used the same long program almost her whole career ...
    and her overall skating just lacked command, power, and panache...
    Plus her Olympic winning LP was majorly lame...
    Actually the show skating I saw her do as an older women later on was much more appealing to me than her amateur skating ever was.
    I think many (most?) skaters back then used the same freeskate over and over. With hardly any tv coverage (and the lesser value of freeskating for winning) there was no real reason to come up with new programs every year.

    Dick Button once said that she became better technically as a pro than she had been as an amateur and I agree. And as OGM she certainly was a fantastic ambassador for the sport.

    And I do think she was the best overall skater (figures and free) of her era.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Thank God they got rid of the figures. Schuba looked and skated like a truck driver in the LP in Sapporo. No elegance at all.
    Schuba was one person I would have liked to have seen skate in person. Her peers both male and female were in awe of her figures. Her tracings were reputed to be not only clean, but her circles were way larger than any of the other skaters, which is pretty amazing considering you only get one push off.

    Figures may not make exciting tv, but there is grace and beauty in the movements of a skater who is good at tracing figures. It is pretty amazing watching someone trace a complex figure in a single motion.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    Schuba was one person I would have liked to have seen skate in person. Her peers both male and female were in awe of her figures. Her tracings were reputed to be not only clean, but her circles were way larger than any of the other skaters, which is pretty amazing considering you only get one push off.

    Figures may not make exciting tv, but there is grace and beauty in the movements of a skater who is good at tracing figures. It is pretty amazing watching someone trace a complex figure in a single motion.
    ITA. Trixie's freeksating was definitely old school - mired in the late 50's, early 60's style of careful and considered crossovers, present to the judges, jump, smile, careful considered crosovers etc etc until end of program. But she was very consistent with what she did do and had a full arsenal of doubles although she rarely if ever competed the double axel. (She could do it and I have seen video of it in practice where she landed it cleanly, but lets face it she never needed it.)

    While she was outshone by not only Magnussen and Lynn, but Morgenstern and Errath, she was more than a match for pretty much everyone else and her 5th-7th average free skate placements were justified. Had the system been skewed so that a skater who placed 7th in figures could pull up to 1st in free to win overall, there would be no hoopla. Put it into reverse and you just get major double standards in peoples attitudes to the results. Under the rules at that time, Trixie won fair and square and she will always be a legend of the sport due to her incredible figures that no one else could compete with.

  20. #20
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    Figures would have been fun to watch with modern technology. It was hard to see any marks on the ice on an old tv screen. But if they were done now you could overlay, outline, totally play up suspense and see the patterns easily. *sigh*

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