Page 9 of 16 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 310
  1. #161

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    859
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Willowway View Post
    Huh? Brian has been, as far as I know, an IMG client for many many years taking him from his Olympic medal through a very active performing career. They've repped his whole show career and there has been lots of that. I am not clear that they have any financial interest in his coaching situations. As I said, I will ask so that we'll have some facts to discuss.
    Yes please ask and confirm. Although it is fairly clear to me IMG didn't represent him as a coach before the Olympics, otherwise Yuna is unlikely to have gone to him business wise. Orser was not even a coach therefore not under the control of any agency's umbrella so there would be no conflict of interest with another skater or attempt of control, and ideally a suitable candidate because they can pay direct (more affordable too for someone with little funding).

    If IMG did represent him, IMG would certainly have surcharged all his coaching business dealings during his entire coaching career. They haven't - simply because there was NO contract in place. However agency may spins this AFTER, it doesn't matter. It is as plain as night and day.

    And just because someone might have represent you once upon a time, they are not entitled all your future career's earning whatever they say. That would be ridiculous since everyone is entitled to move away, move to any agency or go direct at any time.


    Quote Originally Posted by ponta1 View Post
    Uh, sorry, sounds to me like you're trying to make a big conspiracy theory out of pure speculation on your part. I don't think there is anything evil going on with Brian, Mao, Miki, Hanyu, JSF or IMG. And despite your lengthy explanation, see no correlation between Yuna's breakup with Brian and the aforementioned Japanese skaters.
    Well hey, it wouldn't be the first speculation on these boards.

    Look I am not out to make anyone 'evil' (Don't know where you got that from, it is rather a 'george bush' ish comment) but I do recognize sport is also a business driven by profit, people's desires and needs. When in doubt, follow the paper trail and follow the money. It usually comes down to it in the end.

    Figure skating as a sport has the characteristics like show business. It need talent, it need production, it need a stage to perform, it is about box office receipts and critical reviews. Money are invested, money are earned after (okay not always money, but also prestige, fame, etc.). Just like show business, skaters and coaches may be the public faces of the sports but the real influential people are likely the agents and the studios or who ever has the money to make things happen or gain the most.

    Re: allezfred

    This is my final post on this topic, sorry for cause some friction but it is inevitable. Will wait until the press conference, look forward to see how they spin this
    Oh and I am not Korean!!
    (although I am definately a Yunabot, as well a Hanyubot, Daisukebot, Kwanbot, Lambielbot, Plushybot, Abbottbot, Miraibot, Johnnybot part time Akikobot, Patrickbot, Lizabot, Alissabot, Juliabot. Just call me bot Operation System 1.68 - I wear it proudly!)
    Last edited by os168; 05-03-2012 at 11:49 PM.

  2. #162
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    256
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I have just discovered that last season Hanyu had never gotten edge calls on his flip jump, whereas during 2010~11 season he had gotten consistently(maybe 6~8 times?) 'e' call on flip.
    Wow, coach Abe seems to have done a great job for Hanyu's jumps(4T,3A,fixing 3F etc.).
    Last edited by t.mann; 05-03-2012 at 01:14 PM.

  3. #163
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    232
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by gingercrush View Post
    Quite frankly and I don't care if this is rude. But I cant wait till Kim disappears so all the Yuna-Bots disappear with her. What a bunch of very unpleasant people you have turned out to be. Not a great representation of Kim or Korea.
    Yeah that is very rude, Mao-bot. You are also extremely unpleasant in this post, so who are you to criticize others when you're doing the exact same thing? Joke, don't get your panties in a twist.

    Anyways, who cares about what Orser does? He's moved on to other skaters, and that's fine by me.

  4. #164
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    41
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by t.mann View Post
    I have just discovered that last season Hanyu had never gotten edge calls on his flip jump, whereas during 2010~11 season he had gotten consistently(maybe 6~8 times?) 'e' call on flip.
    Wow, coach Abe seems to have done a great job for Hanyu's jumps(4T,3A,fixing 3F etc.).
    There is also a jump coach in Hanyu's homerink.
    His name is Soshi Tanaka. I remember he was a good jumper.
    Hanyu had learned jump technique mainly from him.

  5. #165
    Recovering from the Olys
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    28,276
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    16342
    Quote Originally Posted by nana7045 View Post
    There is also a jump coach in Hanyu's homerink.
    His name is Soshi Tanaka. I remember he was a good jumper.
    Hanyu had learned jump technique mainly from him.
    Thanks, nana7045. I remember that name! Here's Soshi Tanaka's ISU bio: http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00002074.htm
    His bio's competitive history begins in 2000, but Tanaka's first Junior Worlds was in 1999 where he had his highest placement, 6th: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Wo...mpionships#Men
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  6. #166
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    256
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by nana7045 View Post
    There is also a jump coach in Hanyu's homerink.
    His name is Soshi Tanaka. I remember he was a good jumper.
    Hanyu had learned jump technique mainly from him.
    Oh, thanks for explanation!

  7. #167

    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    1,605
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1647
    Yes please ask and confirm.
    I said I'd do it and I did. Coaches, certainly in the US, do not have representation (and not likely outside the US). If you as a skater want to work with a particular coach, you call that coach directly, not an agent or manager. This tradition syncs with the PSA (organization to which all professional coaches belong) guidelines around coaches soliciting (or going out to get) talent - totally against the rules. Now, I'm not naive enough to think it never happens but it doesn't out in the open and isn't common practice - the student must approach the coach, the coach doesn't ask the student to come aboard either directly or through another person like an agent. If a coach poaches a student from another coach, professional sanctions are in order.

  8. #168

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    It's about time I change this info...
    Posts
    1,353
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    20
    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Just like show business, skaters and coaches may be the public faces of the sports but the real influential people are likely the agents and the studios or who ever has the money to make things happen or gain the most.
    if you want to look into drama, let say the real influence people are surely not the agents and agencies, but the national governing bodies, in some cases. Figure skating is sure less than showbusiness in this case. Agents are there when you are famous and winning medlas, not before, rarely. The ones being the big boss is the federation, pushing you to competitions abroad, giving assignments to skaters, choosing their national team, etc.

  9. #169
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    LEAVE EDMUNDS ALONE!!1!
    Posts
    20,084
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by nana7045 View Post
    There is also a jump coach in Hanyu's homerink.
    His name is Soshi Tanaka. I remember he was a good jumper.
    Hanyu had learned jump technique mainly from him.
    Thank you for the information.

  10. #170

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    859
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Willowway View Post
    I said I'd do it and I did. Coaches, certainly in the US, do not have representation (and not likely outside the US). If you as a skater want to work with a particular coach, you call that coach directly, not an agent or manager. This tradition syncs with the PSA (organization to which all professional coaches belong) guidelines around coaches soliciting (or going out to get) talent - totally against the rules. Now, I'm not naive enough to think it never happens but it doesn't out in the open and isn't common practice - the student must approach the coach, the coach doesn't ask the student to come aboard either directly or through another person like an agent. If a coach poaches a student from another coach, professional sanctions are in order.
    (Okay I know i said I wasn't to going to write anymore on this topic but I feel i have to respond to this. Forgive me, I will keep a lid on it I promise )

    Thanks for checking the facts but a few issues got really muddled. I never have implied it has anything to do with solicitation from any coach direct - which would be just plain wrong, and I certainly have NEVER accused Orser of going after another student. Nonono....

    The standard of practice you have outlined does not apply here. For starters, I highly doubt Hanyu woke up one morning last month and thought
    'Wow now I am a world championship bronze medallist, I am going to call up Brian Orser in Canada in my best English to see if he is free and he can teach me!' Then Brian goes 'YES!!... luckily I 'happen' to be free, come over but you have to fire your current coach first!' Then Hanyu goes 'OKAY No Problem! I will tell my agent so they can do a press release!'

    I am happy you are able to confirm the general practice which shows coaches are not normally represent by an agency, and that it should be a direct relationship, just like what Orser / Kim's relationship had been before the Olympics. But the whole point of the speculations was based on the fact a rival's agency did sign up Orser as a coach, that it is NOT standard practice, and what followed are extraordinary series of circumstances, which now result a formal rival's OGM coach coaching their home OGM contender. Timing, events, conditions need to be in place for this to happen. There's nothing standard about this relationship.

    It is easy to examine these issues using critical thinking to determine if these claims are true or false.

    1. What possible benefits has IMG to gain by sign as Orser as a coach?
    2. What possible benefits has IMG's clients to gain with Orser sharing the same agency?
    3. Who stand to lose from this signing and why?
    4. What possible benefits has Orser to sign an agency to represent his services?

    The answers are fairly straightforward. I hardly have to spell it out.

    Does IMG financially gain from sign Orser as a coach, Yes or No?

    If No. No money has been gained by IMG's signing of Orser's coach services - which they have exclusive rights to, then I am talking complete nonsense here.

    If Yes. Then they totally failed him as an agency, since it is THEIR JOB to manage their client expectations and manage their business relations to ensure everyone is happy and knows exactly what is going on. An Agency's job is not to part ways with his biggest and highest paying clients and then decide to run a big press campaign about it, instead of hushing discreetly like how it would NORMALLY work in the interest of their clients using basic common sense, like Hanyu with Abe. Again, it all comes down to money. Who stand to benefit from this big split financially despite the fact it is 'financially bad for their client', or perhaps it was strategic because there are something planned ahead already and they know money is not a problem?

    In summary, what you found out as a standard practice does not apply here. The economy of scale for general amateur level skating /coaching does not warrant the role of agencies since there are too little money involved. At world class level however - where there are big money involved with national interests/rivalry conflicts that can be exploited, there exist the role of agencies who can manage complex issues, needs, wants, set none standard terms and conditions to be able to broke these deals discreetly. So that in the case when a deal fall through (and they often do), nobody can get hurt... well in theory anyway.
    Last edited by os168; 05-04-2012 at 05:12 PM.

  11. #171
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,004
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    BTW, who cares if Hanyu is coached by Orser or whoever?
    There are number of skaters who are far stronger than him and I would be surprised if he makes the top 5 in Sochi.
    Even at his best, he won't get near halfway decent Chan or Plushy.

  12. #172

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    859
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    BTW, who cares if Hanyu is coached by Orser or whoever?
    There are number of skaters who are far stronger than him and I would be surprised if he makes the top 5 in Sochi.
    Even at his best, he won't get near halfway decent Chan or Plushy.
    Sooooooo disagree!!!!! Hanyu is awesome so shuudaap

  13. #173

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    Age
    43
    Posts
    8,788
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2672
    I am so not happy about this. I don't like Orser's style and grooming of his skaters other than Kim. I was indifferent to Javier's skating before Orser now I'm don't like AT ALL. Orser has horrible packaging of his skaters except for Kim. He didn't help Rippon packaging nor Gao.
    "“My bronze feels like gold,” said the bronze medalist Carolina Kostner

  14. #174
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    North America
    Posts
    149
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by topaz View Post
    I am so not happy about this. I don't like Orser's style and grooming of his skaters other than Kim. I was indifferent to Javier's skating before Orser now I'm don't like AT ALL. Orser has horrible packaging of his skaters except for Kim. He didn't help Rippon packaging nor Gao.
    I completely disagree with you. Each skater that has switched to Orser, has looked better then they did previously. Now I will agree that he hasn't solved all the skaters issues. I am not sure that any coach can make the skater do things they don't want to. When you have skaters who have left and done better then with him, you might have a leg to stand on. But you don't really have any skaters who have done better after Orser at the present. And this is why I disagree with what you are saying.

  15. #175
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,004
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Sooooooo disagree!!!!! Hanyu is awesome so shuudaap
    Hanyu won't even make the Japanese team for Sochi, if Oda could learn to count to three and Kozuka manages to look up to the crowd.

  16. #176
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    North America
    Posts
    149
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    (Okay I know i said I wasn't to going to write anymore on this topic but I feel i have to respond to this. Forgive me, I will keep a lid on it I promise )

    Thanks for checking the facts but a few issues got really muddled. I never have implied it has anything to do with solicitation from any coach direct - which would be just plain wrong, and I certainly have NEVER accused Orser of going after another student. Nonono....

    The standard of practice you have outlined does not apply here. For starters, I highly doubt Hanyu woke up one morning last month and thought
    'Wow now I am a world championship bronze medallist, I am going to call up Brian Orser in Canada in my best English to see if he is free and he can teach me!' Then Brian goes 'YES!!... luckily I 'happen' to be free, come over but you have to fire your current coach first!' Then Hanyu goes 'OKAY No Problem! I will tell my agent so they can do a press release!'

    I am happy you are able to confirm the general practice which shows coaches are not normally represent by an agency, and that it should be a direct relationship, just like what Orser / Kim's relationship had been before the Olympics. But the whole point of the speculations was based on the fact a rival's agency did sign up Orser as a coach, that it is NOT standard practice, and what followed are extraordinary series of circumstances, which now result a formal rival's OGM coach coaching their home OGM contender. Timing, events, conditions need to be in place for this to happen. There's nothing standard about this relationship.

    It is easy to examine these issues using critical thinking to determine if these claims are true or false.

    1. What possible benefits has IMG to gain by sign as Orser as a coach?
    2. What possible benefits has IMG's clients to gain with Orser sharing the same agency?
    3. Who stand to lose from this signing and why?
    4. What possible benefits has Orser to sign an agency to represent his services?

    The answers are fairly straightforward. I hardly have to spell it out.

    Does IMG financially gain from sign Orser as a coach, Yes or No?

    If No. No money has been gained by IMG's signing of Orser's coach services - which they have exclusive rights to, then I am talking complete nonsense here.

    If Yes. Then they totally failed him as an agency, since it is THEIR JOB to manage their client expectations and manage their business relations to ensure everyone is happy and knows exactly what is going on. An Agency's job is not to part ways with his biggest and highest paying clients and then decide to run a big press campaign about it, instead of hushing discreetly like how it would NORMALLY work in the interest of their clients using basic common sense, like Hanyu with Abe. Again, it all comes down to money. Who stand to benefit from this big split financially despite the fact it is 'financially bad for their client', or perhaps it was strategic because there are something planned ahead already and they know money is not a problem?

    In summary, what you found out as a standard practice does not apply here. The economy of scale for general amateur level skating /coaching does not warrant the role of agencies since there are too little money involved. At world class level however - where there are big money involved with national interests/rivalry conflicts that can be exploited, there exist the role of agencies who can manage complex issues, needs, wants, set none standard terms and conditions to be able to broke these deals discreetly. So that in the case when a deal fall through (and they often do), nobody can get hurt... well in theory anyway.
    I find your information very interesting, as I always have thought behind all things, there is stuff that we don't really know. However, thinking about what you are saying, I found that this Samantha Cabiles mentioned perviously in this thread must also be associated with IMG. If you look at her LinkedIN profile from an account, IMG has been showing along with other marketing executives in her other people viewed area. I even saw at one point the Executive VP at Nike who must be connected to her. Her contacts are protected, but she has over 500 marketing and business connections within her LinkedIN profile, tweets in four languages, and has a facebook and professional web site.

    I am wondering if IMG or some other professional companies are involved in hopeful international skaters such as her?

  17. #177
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    North America
    Posts
    149
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    Hanyu won't even make the Japanese team for Sochi, if Oda could learn to count to three and Kozuka manages to look up to the crowd.
    I just love this site, you guys and your arguments make my nights less boring. Man I have to get a life.

    You actually think this?

  18. #178
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,004
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ProgramerUSFS View Post
    I just love this site, you guys and your arguments make my nights less boring. Man I have to get a life.

    You actually think this?
    Believe it or not, I am serious about things I say here.
    Oda would have been a multiple world medalist if he knew how to count, and Kozuka actually won a world medal last year in Moscow without looking up to the crowd.

  19. #179

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    859
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    Hanyu won't even make the Japanese team for Sochi, if Oda could learn to count to three and Kozuka manages to look up to the crowd.
    OH yeah? ... well I have news for you. Hanyu can count to FOUR already!!!! Has mesmerizing lazer beam eyes with the the crowds (did you not see his epic FS stare end pose?) So he is ahead of them both already!!

    He just need to develop his Patrick Chan psychedelic eyes to hypnotize the judges to reward him the high PCS, which he is perfectly of doing, having proven to be a great sponge his entire career. Soaking up every great skater's best qualities and that will certainly include Patrick's 'best' quality next year

    ... That is unless someone totally mess it up for him. I am still gutted he is loosing Abe, and question the sanity of the decision makers. Just think of the 24 hours return flight time from Tokyo to Toronto EVEYRTIME he get coaching, and with no one familiar with his conditions in Japan to supervise him on a day to day and to be the coach's eyes. Feels like this crazy arrangement can only come from the likes of greedy agents and inconsiderate bureaucrats. It didn't work for Mao, so why do they insist on Hanyu?

  20. #180

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    859
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ProgramerUSFS View Post
    I find your information very interesting, as I always have thought behind all things, there is stuff that we don't really know. However, thinking about what you are saying, I found that this Samantha Cabiles mentioned perviously in this thread must also be associated with IMG. If you look at her LinkedIN profile from an account, IMG has been showing along with other marketing executives in her other people viewed area. I even saw at one point the Executive VP at Nike who must be connected to her. Her contacts are protected, but she has over 500 marketing and business connections within her LinkedIN profile, tweets in four languages, and has a facebook and professional web site.

    I am wondering if IMG or some other professional companies are involved in hopeful international skaters such as her?
    I don't think any big agency would be interested in invest in non ranking skaters unless it is based on a strong personal recommendation. There's little or no money in it for the similar amount of work as an elite skater. But I wouldn't be surprised if most of the cricket club's top/upcoming skaters are signed by IMG already, and likely Yuka Sato's Detroit camp too. It makes good business sense since it would simplify management and and cost saving to develop these camps into hots spots around the world. So that every time a skater 'feel' like they need to swap coach, then IMG can just shift one skaters from one camp to the next, and they can keep on swap the skaters student spots like in a daisy chain and keep on charge clients for new placement, new sign on fee etc every time they move, when it is really just their existing network.

Page 9 of 16 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •