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  1. #301

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    And you clearly have no idea of the history between the Cricket Club and the Japanese federation which has been sending skaters to the Cricket Club and the Mariposa Club every summer since sometime in the 1990's in order to jump start their program. Other than the year SARS hit the GTA, there have been Japanese skaters competing at Thornhill every summer for as long as I've been going to Summer Skate, which was sometime in the late 1990's.

    The Korean federation was actually emulating the Japanese federation in sending a large contingent of skaters to the Cricket Club when Yu-Na was training there, seeing how successful the Japanese summer program had been for their skaters.

    This whole notion that anyone at the Cricket was sneaking around behind the backs of the Korean federation to entice the Japanese federation to send students is just laughable. The Cricket would be unlikely to blow off a long-standing relationship with the Japanese federation for just one skater, even if that skater was Yu-Na Kim.
    Uh...excuse me, actually I am fully aware of this since you have been quite unshy about educated the public a year ago on this very topic. But what has this got to do with ANY of my posts? I have been refraining to post anymore on this topic but I feel i have no choice since people keep twist them.

    Let me emphasize again, this is not about Japan vs Korea, certainly not about the Cricket club, Canadian, or anything to do with anti Japan, Orser etc. It is about the role of an agency and how it impact decision making and outcomes for the sport.

    The moment Brian renewed his contract with IMG, the fate for the Kim-Orser relationship pretty much sealed. Why? Because as an agency, a candidate that is not going to bring them any money (no contract have been signed, so no money can be made) would be completely useless to them and it is best to end that relationship PERMANENTLY. It would be a waste of their time and effort when alot money can be made elsewhere and motion need to be in place and timing is the key. Agencies love the phrase 'cut the cord... cut the cord' because it means getting rid of any business relationships that are a liability to the agency, not just their own but their client/candidate relationships.

    Once an agency comes in, it is all about billable hours, and structured deals, and whether these deals have legs that will stand to last long and be lucrative. Hanyu is only 17, potential 10 years regular billing from both sides. Mens have longer career lifespan than the ladies too.

    Do you really think Brian randomly bump into OGM coach to discuss about their salary and that he should be gaining 30% of skater's future earning at 'his' level? Geez. just how many OGM coaches are there in the world? 2 singles OGM every 4 years, there's only a handful of OGM coaches he can bump into, and most of them are Russian, or has he been hanging out with Frank Carroll since the OGM? The fact he 'knows' this indicate he has been having heart to heart with an agency. Nothing wrong with it, he is a valuable commodity in the sport now.

    If IMG represent Brian, they'd get 20% from his newly adjusted coaching fee (or 10% claimed by some even if it makes no business sense) as well as the '20-30%' from the student representation, endorsement deals. So for example, say Hanyu makes 1 million dollar a year, Agency probably get 20% of that. Brian according to his theory could claim 30% (a little outrageous), Agency would be getting additionally 20% of Brian's rate, so they'd make $60k get more just from structuring the SAME deal and for doing the SAME amount of work from just one side representation.
    Brian makes 300k-60k(20% goes to the agent)= £240k
    Agency makes 200k from Hanyu +£60k from Brian = £260k. Based in 20% for endorsement deals
    Or 300k from Hanyu + 60k from Brian = £360k. Based on 30% for endorsement deals.

    Now imagine Hanyu get 10 million a year endorsement deals like Mao does for the next 10 years, or even half that. Is it not worth their while to develop this relationship?

    It is how you make money for doing same hours. That is why a sport agency would keep sending him their own client students so they can have control over structuring these deals. IMG does not represent exclusively Japanese skaters, but also Javier, Christina, Adam and probably Cynthia too since she is a regular SOI Canada cast, and I am pretty sure Hanyu too, otherwise they would be pretty useless at their job. It is nothing personal, just business. It is only personal because readers are fans of certain individuals, factions, affiliations, but it is still possible to be objective when you broke things down logically.
    Last edited by os168; 05-26-2012 at 09:13 PM.

  2. #302

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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Really, can't you just let this go? Besides yourself, I don't think anyone in this topic gives a rat's ass about supposedly who gets how much from who. If you reallly feel the need to go on ad infinitim about this topic, how about you create one about clients and agencies and all that other stuff? I really don't care to read about such things in a topic that is supposed to be about Hanyu.
    Crazy about sports!

  3. #303
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    If you didn't keep responding to the tin foil hat brigade, they wouldn't keep posting.

  4. #304

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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    It is about the role of an agency and how it impact decision making and outcomes for the sport.
    If you think IMG is pully strings on coaching relationships within figure skating, you are delusional. And if you're basing this paranoia on Orser wanting a standard coaching contract with his OGM winning skater, you are dreaming in technicolour.

    If you look at the list of A-list skaters, there are few who aren't IMG clients, and those who aren't IMG skaters are not getting the Disson shows or the SOI tours.

    To extrapolate that further to suggest that IMG is sending clients to Orser completely ignores the role of the skater, his or her parents, and their federation in coach selection process. There are also the inducements and facilities that the club and/or Section has to offer the skater that can factor into the equation. That IMG is somehow manipulating the process indicates a lack of knowledge of how the "selecting a coach" process works.

    The great likelihood is that any the top skaters in Japan and North America is likely already an IMG client. So any top skater that Orser is hired to coach has a strong possibilty of being an IMG client.


    You may understand how agencies work, but you don't seem to have much understanding of how skaters chose coaches.

  5. #305

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    Dragonlady - I agree with you on 99.9% of what you say. One exception to the IMG rule is Ilia who has been active with SOI and Disson shows over the years but has never been an IMG client - most people assume he is with IMG but he made other agent choices from the first (coming out of Nagano).

    I also agree with Ziggy about conducting discussions.
    Last edited by Willowway; 05-27-2012 at 01:12 AM.

  6. #306

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    To extrapolate that further to suggest that IMG is sending clients to Orser completely ignores the role of the skater, his or her parents, and their federation in coach selection process. There are also the inducements and facilities that the club and/or Section has to offer the skater that can factor into the equation. That IMG is somehow manipulating the process indicates a lack of knowledge of how the "selecting a coach" process works.
    You may be familiar with how selecting a coach selection works, but you are also ignoring the role of a strategically smart agency that is always forward looking who looks at market ahead of time, familiar with what their customers are looking for, and proactively go and build/package a product/service bespoke to that buyer in time. Why do you think headhunting firms were able to place top senior execs from one company to another even if these candidates (and sometimes a whole team) had no intention to look for another job and that company has no intention of hiring someone new, yet they fit like gloves, and the company grew next few years and made a lot of money from this one new hire. That is the value of the agencies, we help our clients grow because in many ways we have the connections, the know how and we can be smarter than them.

    There are probably a short list of coaching options for Hanyu to choose from. No agency would put all their eggs in one basket, but you always have the agency's preferred placement; candidate's preferred placement which you can leverage off; and maybe one or two backup placements. I would not be surprised for example if Yuka and Jason was on that list at some point, but are discounted due to Jeremy and Adam there already.

    Please note the agency and its clients (include federations) /candidates have a relationship practically similar to a 'life coach' that generally all starts off based on a great deal of 'good will', 'trust' and 'emotional investment', so their 'persuasion' can be as effective as a skater's most senior advisers since they are the one with all the connections, experience, capable of getting you the endorsement deals, grooming your career, essentially your carer in the next few years. In that sense, they are more important than your family, coach, federation, since your livelihood and financial future depends entirely on them. Especially if they also happened to be THE employer for all your ice skating shows.

    Any figure skater who has 'made it' has gone through the 'system' would have been fully experienced of the pros and cons with staying with an monopoly agency that are also the employer of most the big ice shows. The chances are once your career is set, it is better to go independent / new agency so you have better negotiation position, preferred status and some level of control, but there are also risks that comes with it. Unfortunately these are the things one can't learn until experience it for themselves, something Hanyu will soon find out.
    Last edited by os168; 05-27-2012 at 02:45 AM.

  7. #307

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    If you didn't keep responding to the tin foil hat brigade, they wouldn't keep posting.
    I fear they they will keep posting such useless "information" regardless of who does or doesn't respond.
    Crazy about sports!

  8. #308

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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Please note the agency and its clients (include federations) /candidates have a relationship practically similar to a 'life coach' that generally all starts off based on a great deal of 'good will', 'trust' and 'emotional investment', so their 'persuasion' can be as effective as a skater's most senior advisers
    'You' are on 'crack'.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  9. #309

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    Methinks t'is time to start another thread entitled "Hanyu to be coached by Orser - no tinfoil hat brigade please."

  10. #310

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Accordion View Post
    Methinks t'is time to start another thread entitled "Hanyu to be coached by Orser - no tinfoil hat brigade please."
    Yes, please.
    Crazy about sports!

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