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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    It has been reported that quite a few people in the audience at Sheffield were watching Plushenko and crying with joy and it sems the judges were conquered too because Plushenko holds the third highest freeskate score of the season, after Chan at 4CC and Takahashi at WTT if I am not mistaken, which is pretty impressive for a skater who had only competed at his Nationals prior to the European Championships. So why would Plushenko need Camerlengo to choreograph for him to begin with?
    Maybe judges will cry too and he will hold the first freeskate score of the season!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    He had very apparent stamina issues due to still not being in top shape.

    He would have surely added more technical content, had he been capable of executing it.
    Sure, but I'm not talking about adding very difficult jumps, just small tweaks. He could've done 3z-2t-2r instead of 3z-2t for example. The base value of 2r was 1.65 and he lost by 1.31. That's just stupid.

  3. #63

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    He was the one man in Vancouver who did two quad triples. They had no value but he did them.

    The problem was not stamina or lack of a double toe or loop. It was that quad triples weren't worth anything.
    Last edited by caseyedwards; 04-30-2012 at 06:13 PM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    He was the one man in Vancouver who did two quad triples. They had no value but he did them.
    In the freeskate Plushenko got 14.60 (base value 13.80 and today the base value is 14.40, not a big difference) for his quad-triple, which is quite a lot. The problem was that many of his jumps were not that great and he lacked choreography and transitions. He just simply was not well-prepared for a CoP competition.

    In Vancouver Evan got 11.40 for his triple lutz combination, so he gathered more technical points from spins and footwork plus from jumps in the bonus area. Plushenko jumped all his big jumps = quad combination, triple axel and triple axel in the beginning of his programme.
    Last edited by Jaana; 04-30-2012 at 06:59 PM.

  5. #65

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    If he didn't do those maybe he would have had more energy for backloading and more for spins and steps for GOE. So if you start fiddling with Plushenkos programs the best thing would have been to remove the quads and just have him skate a program like Lysacek or Chan or Takahashi without a quad.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    He was the one man in Vancouver who did two quad triples. They had no value but he did them.

    The problem was not stamina or lack of a double toe or loop. It was that quad triples weren't worth anything.
    Yes, it is frustrating how Lysacek can get away with not doing the quad, but Plushenko can't get away with not doing an extra double loop. I know that when you add up all the points you get what you get, but the system feels very flawed if that can happen. I've always thought there should be bonuses for difficult jumps in combination as clearly a quad toe-triple toe combo is much more demanding than a 3flip-3toe or 3lutz-3toe.

  7. #67

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    Well they wrongly thought going further than anyone else in Vancouver by combining quad triples and triple axels etc would more than compensate for not doing a three jump combo. Using all available combo opportunities just not doing a 3 jump one. It had worked in ISU comeptitions -COR and Euros. Plushenko won 63 to 62 on jumps. He got close to no GOE on any jumps or spins or steps. Obviously using so much energy on the 4/3 was a huge error both in the SP and LP under COP at that time. They should have maxed out jump difficulty without going to quad and just left it out. That's what 99% of the men in Vancouver did. There were 4 quads in the SP and 7 in the LP? Now you get that number in the top 3 at worlds not 25 people at the Olympics. Everyone was smart except for him really in many ways.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    The problem was not stamina or lack of a double toe or loop. It was that quad triples weren't worth anything.
    I don't think you can just write off stamina as not being a problem. It was obvious he had a lack of match-fitness. And if you look at the pictures of him from Euros and the pictures from the Olympics, you will notice that the black onesie fitted properly at Euros, but was loose in places at the Olympics. He was losing weight rather rapidly which I don't think helped anything.

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    another rehash of Vancouver

    more clueless crap from casey edwards about quads

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    I don't think you can just write off stamina as not being a problem. It was obvious he had a lack of match-fitness. And if you look at the pictures of him from Euros and the pictures from the Olympics, you will notice that the black onesie fitted properly at Euros, but was loose in places at the Olympics. He was losing weight rather rapidly which I don't think helped anything.
    He didn't double a jump like he did at other compeittions he was in that season. CoR and Euros had unintentional double jumps. Russian nationals FP had an opening jump of a 3T.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    another rehash of Vancouver
    I know you cant get enough of it!

    Anyway I saw an interview today as I was ready to abandon the Pasquale choreo thing, Plush says they started making the sp, and he is excited and he wants Camerlego to choreo his Lp also, they will meet in the Spain Mishin Camp to continue their work together.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    He didn't double a jump like he did at other compeittions he was in that season. CoR and Euros had unintentional double jumps. Russian nationals FP had an opening jump of a 3T.
    You're right, he didn't, but that doesn't mean he was tired before/not tired at Vancouver. I thought it was especially obvious in the straight-line steps - at Euros he was bright, energetic, and loved every second of it. At Vancouver he was slower, less sharp...and still loving every second of it, but this IS Plushy we're talking about here.

    Quote Originally Posted by senorita View Post
    Anyway I saw an interview today as I was ready to abandon the Pasquale choreo thing, Plush says they started making the sp, and he is excited and he wants Camerlego to choreo his Lp also, they will meet in the Spain Mishin Camp to continue their work together.
    This sounds promising! 4 hours for making the SP, then - that's pretty good.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Sure, but I'm not talking about adding very difficult jumps, just small tweaks. He could've done 3z-2t-2r instead of 3z-2t for example. The base value of 2r was 1.65 and he lost by 1.31. That's just stupid.
    That looks like a minor tweak only on paper.

    Performing three jump combinations, especially with loop as the last jump, takes a lot of stamina.

    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    He was the one man in Vancouver who did two quad triples. They had no value but he did them.

    The problem was not stamina or lack of a double toe or loop. It was that quad triples weren't worth anything.

  14. #74
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    I will be very curious to see what music IS chosen. Camerlengo has had some very successful programs, but it is also quite painfully obvious that he poaches and recycles music from skaters competing against his own. Hopefully the heightened profile of his work will make him less susceptible to descending to such low blow maneuvers.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by leapfrogonice View Post
    I will be very curious to see what music IS chosen. Camerlengo has had some very successful programs, but it is also quite painfully obvious that he poaches and recycles music from skaters competing against his own. Hopefully the heightened profile of his work will make him less susceptible to descending to such low blow maneuvers.
    I'm also curious about the music. I hope Plushy moves away from the tango theme this year - two seasons in a row is enough - but I did quite like the music for the SP, Storm. He's definitely cut out for bold, dramatic programs.

    This may sound sacreligious - but I've always thought he'd be able to do something really great with the Gladiator score, or another of Hans Zimmer's scores. However, there is an obvious issue there...

  16. #76
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    The music will OBVIOUSLY be an overused piece arranged by Edvin Marton.

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    The music will OBVIOUSLY be an overused piece arranged by Edvin Marton.
    Well you know I was just thinking that Plushy has never done "Firebird", or "Rhapsody in Blue", or "Romeo and Juliet"...

    If he does "Pirates of the Carribbean", however, I think I will murder something.

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    I'm also curious about the music. I hope Plushy moves away from the tango theme this year - two seasons in a row is enough - but I did quite like the music for the SP, Storm. He's definitely cut out for bold, dramatic programs.

    This may sound sacreligious - but I've always thought he'd be able to do something really great with the Gladiator score, or another of Hans Zimmer's scores. However, there is an obvious issue there...
    Why not just go for MITIM. LOL
    Last edited by caseyedwards; 05-02-2012 at 08:21 PM.

  19. #79

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    Article/interview with Pasquale Camerlengo about working with Plushenko and Mishin in St. Petersburg: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  20. #80

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    Don't think he likes what Mishin does with choreographers. Giving them ideas that they refine. It was the norm for Plushenko to do quad triple double. Then he came back (2010) and didn't do any three jump combo at all. But in 2012 there was 3-2-2. So obviously he is going to maximize jump opportunities and not leave out 3 jump combo like he did all 2009-2010. So he really already learned that before Camerlengo and him talked about it! It's not like anyone else did a quad -triple though-he thought he could trade three jump combo for something nobody else was doing.

    In Vancouver the skaters who got 2 5.00 in SP transitions were 1st and 21st. So that had to be discussed. Obviously in between 1st and 21st were 5.75 and 5.50 and I think I saw some 4's but 1st and 21st share two 5.00.
    Last edited by caseyedwards; 05-25-2012 at 11:32 PM.

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