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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post


    High ambitions for Takahashi and Tran



    Clearly, the Japanese Federation was willing to invest a significant amount of money in Narumi Takahashi's career. I can't imagine that Skate Canada would have paid anywhere near as much to bankroll the career of a young Canadian man who had no prior experience in pairs and a foreigner who might never try to obtain Canadian citizenship.
    Thanks that actually makes perfect sense. Skating is expensive!

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzisk8tr View Post
    Did you even read what Ziggy said? Japan does not send low level teams, meaning if the standard of the pairs team was not at a high enough calibre they would not get sent. To laugh and patronise Ziggy is really not very polite.
    Japan doesn't have any other pairs teams let alone "lower level" teams to send.

    Quote Originally Posted by ponta1 View Post
    Would have, could have, should have.....it's what you do in the moment that counts. Takahashi Tran rightfully earned their bronze.
    What they do next season will be telling, to see if they can defend it. Plenty of teams only have one bronze because they were only lucky once. Ask Jessica Dube.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammyf View Post
    Yes, Ziggy is correct. Japan had 4 senior dance teams compete at nationals and 1 junior team. Only Reed/Reed got internationals. Some of the other teams scored quite reasonably, many other countries would have sent them.
    We are discussing the problem with pairs not dance.

  3. #103
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    1. Renunciation of Canadian citizenship requires a bare minimum of 3-4 months processing time.
    2. In order to even begin the processing of renouncing one's Canadian citizenship, the applicant must not live in Canada.
    3. The Canadian government will not accept an application for renunciation of citizenship unless the applicant already has dual nationality (certainly not Tran's case with Japan) or has an acceptance of nationality from another country pending renunciation of Canadian citizenship. Canada will not allow renunciation if the applicant would, in effect, become stateless.
    4. If Tran is not well into the process of applying for Japanese citizenship at this point, he is seriously behind the cue ball for 2014 - for both Japanese acceptance and Canadian renunciation. ...and he cannot do one without the other...
    5. While I have no personal insight into his legal standing with either government, it would certainly seem that if he is still living and training in Canada that he still has a long way to go.

  4. #104

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    Update
    http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20...1-nksports-spo

    >>
    LDP to support Mervin Tran's citizenship case

    The Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) gathered today for the Sports Promoting Conference, and decide to support Mervin Tran's citizenship case so that he could compete in Sochi. They will be working with the bipartisan sports caucus to enable Tran to get special treatment.

    Having never lived in Japan, It is highly unlikely for Tran to get granted citizenship at the moment, but there is an article in the law that permits, with the approval of the Diet, the naturalization of foreigners who have provided special service to Japan. Although this exemption has never been used before, Seiko Hashimoto, JSF president and also a LDP member of the House of Councillors, emphasizes Tran's achievement for the past five years. "I would really like him to compete at the Olympics," she says, "We will try hard to get the Diet's approval."

    Tran and his partner Takahashi placed third at the World Championships this past March and earned the first paris medal for Japan.
    >>

    I have no idea how promising it is, but at least there seems to be some action from the government to support his case.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Japan doesn't have any other pairs teams let alone "lower level" teams to send.



    What they do next season will be telling, to see if they can defend it. Plenty of teams only have one bronze because they were only lucky once. Ask Jessica Dube.



    We are discussing the problem with pairs not dance.
    You answered every statement made about your comments with a deflective argument. I thought as much. Basically your comments were wrong, you know it but refuse to admit it. End of story.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzisk8tr View Post
    You answered every statement made about your comments with a deflective argument. I thought as much. Basically your comments were wrong, you know it but refuse to admit it. End of story.
    No, I answered them with facts, but please correct me if you know of any other pairs team Japan could have sent to Worlds this year besides T/T. If you think my comments are wrong I would like to see the other team if I have somehow missed them.

  7. #107
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    If Japan had another pairs team at any level, if the were age eligible and could qualify the TES minimum score, T/T could earn a pairs spot for Sochi in London, and if the JOC approved, they'd have a pair for the team competition. One or seven points is better than zero.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  8. #108

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    Icenetwork article

    JOC willing to work with Tran on citizenship issue
    (04/27/2012) - The president of the Japanese Olympic Committee said Thursday he would assist Mervin Tran in obtaining Japanese citizenship so the skater could become eligible to represent the country at the 2014 Olympic Winter Games in Sochi, Russia.
    http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

  9. #109

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    What they should be doing is trying to lure the Shibutanis with funding and corporate sponsorships to get them to represent Japan. Quick question, theoretically could the shibutanis represent the USA right up until the olympics, and by virtue of citizenship switch to representing Japan only for the OG?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdseye View Post
    What they should be doing is trying to lure the Shibutanis with funding and corporate sponsorships to get them to represent Japan. Quick question, theoretically could the shibutanis represent the USA right up until the olympics, and by virtue of citizenship switch to representing Japan only for the OG?
    No.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  11. #111
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    They would have to wait two years, so that time has passed.

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdseye View Post
    What they should be doing is trying to lure the Shibutanis with funding and corporate sponsorships to get them to represent Japan. Quick question, theoretically could the shibutanis represent the USA right up until the olympics, and by virtue of citizenship switch to representing Japan only for the OG?
    The Shibutanis seem to be doing quite well skating for the US. There would be no reason to change countries.

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Skatefan View Post
    The Shibutanis seem to be doing quite well skating for the US. There would be no reason to change countries.
    In a team event they may have the chance of scoring a Gold medal at Olympics. Still, who knows what country will be on top in two years. It's not like the US is that far behind. I wouldn't change if I were them though (not that anyone has said they are at all).
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  14. #114

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    D&W would most certainly get the dance spot barring injury. Whether the US has a shot at gold won't do much for the Shibs.

  15. #115
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    It all depends on the scoring, and how the scores from the SP/SD. USFS might skate the Shibs in the SD -- it's the Finnish Quickstep,at which they might excel -- and D/W in the FD.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    They would have to wait two years, so that time has passed.
    Pairs and dance teams only have to wait one year to switch countries. The Shibutanis could have an excellent chance at a team gold if they did switch, especially if Tran manages to get citizenship.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by carriecmu0503 View Post
    Pairs and dance teams only have to wait one year to switch countries. The Shibutanis could have an excellent chance at a team gold if they did switch, especially if Tran manages to get citizenship.
    I'm sorry, but you are mistaken.

    Check out ISU Rule 109.

    Individuals, like Tatiana Volosozhar, who have skated dance or pairs for one \federation can skate with a different partner for another federation after sitting out for twelve calendar months.

    Pairs and dance couples, however, are treated exactly the same as singles skaters and have to sit out two whole seasons if they have skated in an ISU Championship in their last season for their first federation.

    In other words, leaving aside the problem of citizenship and any possible change in the ISU Rules, the earliest they could skate for another federation is July 1, 2014, which is after Sochi.

  18. #118
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    There is no problem of citizenship for the Shibutanis. Both are dual citizens through their mother father, and can remain dual until their 22nd birthdays, at which point, they must decide. Alex Shibutani must decide by 25 April 2013 in any case. There was a long discussion when they were younger about whether they should start competing for Japan instead of the US, with the field looking too deep at the time for them to break into.

    I don't see in Rule 109 where pairs and dance couples are treated the same as individuals for the waiting period.

    109.2.c states

    in the case of a pair or an ice dance couple, one partner at least must be a citizen of the country of the Member for which the pair or dance couple competes. The other partner may be a citizen or resident of a country of any other Member. The residence and permit requirements and the waiting periods stated above in paragraph 2.b, (i), (ii), and (iii) and in paragraph 3 do not apply to such partner. However, if such partner has already represented another Member, regardless of the discipline, the permit from the Member the Skater represented is required and the waiting period 12 months from the day of the last competition in which the Skater represented another Member applies;

    In the case of the Shibs, at least Maia Shibutani will be a citizen of Japan through Sochi, since she can hold dual citizenship until July 2016. I don't see anything requiring one member of the couple to have competed for Japan as a first federation. Apart from after the breakup of the Soviet Union, it's rare for a couple to hold dual citizenship and switch, a la the Duchenays.

    If I've missed it, please point out the paragraph in Rule 109.

    Paragraph 5, however, can be used to reject an application to switch countries:

    The Council may also reject an application from a Member for a permission that a Skater who has or had foreign citizenship may compete for that Member, although the formalities and requirements stated in this Rule have been met, if in the opinion of the Council granting such application would be contrary to the purpose and spirit of the Rule. (e.g. in case that a Member tries to “import” several athletes with foreign citizenship, in particular when such athletes should form a new national team of such Member or its substantial part);

    Since the Shibs have held Japanese citizenship since birth, and at least one will have Japanese citizenship in Sochi, while the ISU could invoke paragraph 5, it would be hard to argue that they are being imported with foreign citizenship. (Of course, for Sochi, Alex Shibutani's citizenship choice in 2013 rules.)

    The Shibs would have to wait out a season if USFS released them, which for their singles career going forward, doesn't make much sense. If USFS didn't release them, as would be expected, it would be two years before they could apply for an ISU exception applied for by the Japanese Federation to overrule USFS objections.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 04-29-2012 at 05:29 PM.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  19. #119
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    The Council may also reject an application from a Member for a permission that a Skater who has or had foreign citizenship may compete for that Member, although the formalities and requirements stated in this Rule have been met, if in the opinion of the Council granting such application would be contrary to the purpose and spirit of the Rule. (e.g. in case that a Member tries to “import” several athletes with foreign citizenship, in particular when such athletes should form a new national team of such Member or its substantial part);
    Interesting. I've never heard of this. If anything, they would probably invoke this against Azerbaijan first.

  20. #120
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    Since that wording was added between the 2008 and the 2010 versions of the ISU Constitution, it sounds like the "Azerbaijan Rule."
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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