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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I'm not arguing that this is justification, but that there is a team medal at stake.
    It's still just a figure skating medal at the Olympics. What does that really bring to the country?

    Do we even know whether this is legit? Could it just be some kind of media-rousing attempt by the JSF?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by carriemarie View Post
    I believe she is much older than she appears...am I right in saying 21? If it is really that simple a solution to just marry, I'll help plan the bachelorette!

    She turned 20 in January. He'll be 22 in September.
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    This thread from earlier this season has a translated French article about Tran in which he describes how he paired up with Narumi: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=81635
    Algoquin and Sylvia, thanks for your comment.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia View Post
    There is a law set in place which makes it a permissable legal procedure for the Minister of Justice (with the approval of the Diet) to allow the naturalization of foreigners who provide special distinguished service to Japan.

    This existent law has never been applied in Japan, but the law nevertheless already exists, so no laws would need to be broken for Mervin to acquire citizenship. It simply needs to be applied.
    Can someone elaborate on why the law has never been applied? Is it that other applicants have been denied or that no one has ever tried? It seems so weird to me that no scientist, engineer, professor, author, athlete, artist etc has ever tried to invoke that.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    It's still just a figure skating medal at the Olympics. What does that really bring to the country?

    Do we even know whether this is legit? Could it just be some kind of media-rousing attempt by the JSF?
    It's not just a figure skating medal. It's an Olympic medal, possibly gold, in team event. Tran would be getting it for the country of Japan, not just for himself. It's unlikely that Japan will have another chance of team gold, as they don't have any other pairs to represent them. The medal would bring to Japan what Yu-na's gold brought to Korea: Olympic glory and national pride.

  6. #66
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    Regardless of whether Tran obtains citizenship or not, I hope he and Narumi stay together. They are an awesome couple on the ice, and I don't know if either would have the same chemistry with another partner.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by alice73 View Post
    It's not just a figure skating medal. It's an Olympic medal, possibly gold, in team event. Tran would be getting it for the country of Japan, not just for himself. It's unlikely that Japan will have another chance of team gold, as they don't have any other pairs to represent them. The medal would bring to Japan what Yu-na's gold brought to Korea: Olympic glory and national pride.
    are you still thinking of WTT ?

    btw the format is 1 per discipline in the Olympics Team Event unlike at WTT that made up of 2 per singles skater. and No Japan will not be a lock for gold even if Tran gets to compete for Japan, Japan doesn't even have a legit Ice Dance team.

    the more Tran won't even be considered for the citizenship

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    are you still thinking of WTT ?

    btw the format is 1 per discipline in the Olympics Team Event unlike at WTT that made up of 2 per singles skater. and No Japan will not be a lock for gold
    even if Tran gets to compete for Japan, Japan doesn't even have a legit Ice Dance team
    Yes, I know the format will be different @the Olympics. Even with 1 per discipline, Japan has an excellent chance to win gold, IMO. Their singles' field is deep, and their best skaters are planning to compete in Sochi, such as Takashi and Mao. To have 3 solid competitors out of 4 disciplines isn't bad at all.

  9. #69
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    Japan wouldn't be a lock for gold in Sochi, but that has less to do with the format of having only one man and one Ladies skater -- Kozuka and Murakami were both 6th of 12 -- but the field that attended for Russia was so weak, notwithstanding the win in Pairs, and they should have at least three with a shot at 1st or 2nd and I/K with at least 4th.

    If WTT had been scored using a single entry only, the standings would have been:

    JPN: 41
    USA: 39
    CAN: 36
    RUS: 32 -- Highest placement, B/L's 1st
    ITA: 32
    FRA: 31

    Under the single-score-per-discipline model, had Chan and V/M both won, they'd have beaten USA for silver on a tie-break, with 38 points each, but with both first places. Let's see what the ISU comes up with in scoring based on analyzing this season's results

    I don't see the US having that much better results in two years, although the placements might shuffle, and Osmond could come through for Canada. The teams I'd expect to be in the final five are JPN (if they had a pairs team), USA, CAN, RUS, and CHN (with the young singles doing well) or FRA. I don't know if JPN would make it into final five without a pairs team, even if they won Ladies and Mens.


    The Reeds should be healthy again by Sochi; they might have a shot against H/Z of China, but I don't see them beating dance teams from RUS, USA, CAN, FRA (or GER, ITA).
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  10. #70
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    If only this situation would force Japan to start a serious pair program at home. Tran isn't much taller than a lot of the Japanese men at nationals. There is such a depth of talent in Japan that I don't see a reason why they could not replicate what is being done in China.

  11. #71
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    I think that whether Japan with a Pairs team would have a chance numerically is how they award points. At WTT, the final (combined) placement determined the number of points, and coming in last in Pairs and Dance still earned 7 (of 12) points, with the placement based on total CoP points. With five teams instead of six, as long as JPN qualifies for the final, in this year's WTT scoring, the Reeds could be dead in the SD among 10 teams and dead last among five teams in the FD, and still earn eight points, only four less than the winner.

    Were they to change it based on total CoP points, or a combined awarded points from each segment, or factor the awarded points in the FS/FD, then finishing last in the FD might earn two points instead of eight, for example, which would be a different story for Japan and might place them out of the medals.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Can someone elaborate on why the law has never been applied? Is it that other applicants have been denied or that no one has ever tried? It seems so weird to me that no scientist, engineer, professor, author, athlete, artist etc has ever tried to invoke that.
    Most of those people would be satisfied with the permanent residence status in Japan. Columbia University Japanologist Donald Keene is one example. The citizenship is critical only for the Olympic athletes and WC footballers. There are some naturalization cases by Chinese table tennis players or Brazilian footballers, but they had lived in Japan for more than 5 years to make applications.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Most of those people would be satisfied with the permanent residence status in Japan. Columbia University Japanologist Donald Keene is one example. The citizenship is critical only for the Olympic athletes and WC footballers. There are some naturalization cases by Chinese table tennis players or Brazilian footballers, but they had lived in Japan for more than 5 years to make applications.
    I thought Donald Keene decided to live in Japan as a Japanese citizen to show solidarity with Japanese people following the tsunami & Fukushima disaster. I think he would be happy to die with fellow Japanese in the event of a mega quake in Tokyo. I found a piece on his acquiring citizenship.
    http://www.japanprobe.com/2012/03/09...anese-citizen/

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    IIRC when Aliona Savchenko got her German citizenship (just before the 2006 Oly) I don't think she had lived in Germany very long. Did she have German ancestry? She seemed to get her German citizenship rather quickly. At that time S&S had only the potential to become champions, and they did not even medal at the 2006 Olympics.
    She has lived in Germany for 3 years by then and even though it has been expedited IIRC, it wasn't a free pass and she had to work hard for it passing language tests, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by kirkbiggestfan View Post
    If only this situation would force Japan to start a serious pair program at home. Tran isn't much taller than a lot of the Japanese men at nationals. There is such a depth of talent in Japan that I don't see a reason why they could not replicate what is being done in China.
    They are slowly starting Ice Dance and Pairs programs.

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    Think about what you're saying. Tran doesn't fit the criteria of being Japanese so he should be able to represent Japan at the Olympics just, uh, because?? Sorry but that's stupid.
    :roll eyes:. Personally I think it's sad that people can't compete at Olympics, which is arguably a higher goal than a world championship. Regarding the Tanith line I was joking and totally followed that drama, including the opposition teams mother getting involved to stop it. Regarding this incident, all I've said is I think it is a sad situation. I understand the logic behind it, still doesn't stop it from being a sad situation.
    Last edited by Ozzisk8tr; 04-24-2012 at 01:21 AM.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia View Post
    There is a law set in place which makes it a permissable legal procedure for the Minister of Justice (with the approval of the Diet) to allow the naturalization of foreigners who provide special distinguished service to Japan.

    This existent law has never been applied in Japan, but the law nevertheless already exists, so no laws would need to be broken for Mervin to acquire citizenship. It simply needs to be applied.
    But the issue is whether Tran's competitive record constitutes special distinguished service to Japan. His partner and he have won a bronze medal at Worlds but never finished on the podium at Four Continents. Their accomplishments aren't particularly extraordinary even when compared to other Japanese figure skaters such as Arakawa, Suguri, Suzuki, Hanyu, Daisuke Takahashi, all of whom have also won at least one medal at Worlds.

    And, let's be honest. Ws're all figure skating fans here, but if winning a bronze medal at a World Championships constitutes "distinguished service to Japan," then any number of other things do too, and it's not just Tran who deserves citizenship.

    So, to be fair, the Japanese Government needs to choose between saying no to Tran and saying yes to many others as well. That's a political question, not a legal one.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    But the issue is whether Tran's competitive record constitutes special distinguished service to Japan. His partner and he have won a bronze medal at Worlds but never finished on the podium at Four Continents. Their accomplishments aren't particularly extraordinary even when compared to other Japanese figure skaters such as Arakawa, Suguri, Suzuki, Hanyu, Daisuke Takahashi, all of whom have also won at least one medal at Worlds.

    And, let's be honest. Ws're all figure skating fans here, but if winning a bronze medal at a World Championships constitutes "distinguished service to Japan," then any number of other things do too, and it's not just Tran who deserves citizenship.

    So, to be fair, the Japanese Government needs to choose between saying no to Tran and saying yes to many others as well. That's a political question, not a legal one.
    I'm not sure what the Japanese government will decide regarding this issue, but it could be rationalized as follows. It is not unreasonable to see representing Japan at the Olympic Games as 'distinguished service to Japan'. Therefore, Mervin will be conferred citizenship. Henceforth, all elite athletes who have the prerequisite athletic abilities to be competitive at the Olympic Games and who express the desire to represent Japan will be given Japanese citizenship by the Secretary of Justice. If explained in this way, Mervin is not an exception, he is a precedent.

    Incidentally, this kind of getting citizenship is not something that Mervin actually has to make a request for. It is a procedure where the Secretary decides to give citizenship without there being an official request being made. (i.e., it's like saying 'Surprise! We give you citizenship rights to Japan as an honorary present which you may or may not want.') This means that no one, including Mervin, can actually ASK for citizenship. Very strange, but that's how it's couched. (This also means that if and when the Secretary presents Mervin with the choice to take up Japanese citizenship, it is perfectly reasonable for him to say at that point "thanks, but no thanks"'.) (So in total, no one has the right to ask/demand the Secretary of Justice to give him citizenship, but if the Secretary decides to present citizenship rights to someone because s/he has provided special distinguished service to Japan, then this person has the right to accept or refuse it.)

    Also, there have been other athletes of other nationalities who got Japanese citizenship and represented Japan in Olympics. These athletes were able to get their Japanese citizenship without intervention from Secretary/DIET because they fulfilled the regular requirement for getting citizenship, such as having lived in Japan for over 5 years prior to making an application.
    Last edited by magnolia; 04-24-2012 at 10:49 AM.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia View Post
    It is not unreasonable to see representing Japan at the Olympic Games as 'distinguished service to Japan'.
    Except that he's never represented Japan at the Olympics and, for all we know, may never do so even if he gets citizenship.

    I don't know exactly what the laws and regulations say in Japanese, but the English translations seem to indicate that the "distinguished service to Japan" would be something that had already happened, not something that granting Japanese citizenship would make possible.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    And, let's be honest. Ws're all figure skating fans here, but if winning a bronze medal at a World Championships constitutes "distinguished service to Japan," then any number of other things do too, and it's not just Tran who deserves citizenship.
    Exactly what I was trying to say. Somebody mentioned national pride as being a benefit of getting an Olympic medal, which fine, but I'm sure there are tons of people in sciences, military, humanitarian work etc who provide real, tangible economic benefits to the country, and do this every day, not just once every four years. As much as I love figure skating, I would never argue that Tran's medal should be valued above the work these people are doing, and I'm sure the Japanese government has the same opinion when it comes to determining what is "distinguished service"!

  20. #80
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    news to me i thought he was already japanese citizen.

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