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  1. #821

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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    *inserts Radionova

    what I mean is that, Makarova wont be gifted with PCS because even non eligible seniors like Radionova or Medvedeva can outscore her.

    Even at the start of last year we talked about how Ksenia won't be factor because Polinas were age eligible etc, and Russia wont need her etc. However, at the end Russia had to use her, and also her score did count towards ensuring 3 spots for Russia for this year. Remember Polina Korbeynikova royally bombed the worlds ... Polina Agafanova is shadow of what she was, Polina Shelepen has real problem with nerves. So Polinas may not be a factor at all.

    Liza, Adelina and Elena will be really strong and hard to beat, in my opinion. This is based only on what they did last season alone. I would like to see how Liza and Adelina perform this year before fully putting them as favorites since it feels like a long time since i have seen them skate (partly because they are going to skate as seniors in championships and need to position themselves well in the eyes of international judges). A decent skate from should be enough for them to make the team. However tehy can struggle. As for Ksenia, i am not a fan but she did help Russia many times to keep the 3 spots. She is a strong SP skater and scores well. So, going into FP she usually positions herself well. Her performances usually are bad in FP but her skate order along with few landed jumps ensures she gets a good PCS (ladies competition can be bit of a splashfest as we, so other too ensures her position). Hence she does not sink too far. Unlike thes likes of Polina K and Shelepen, who usually does a disastrous SP. Their scores are bad in SP and they usually get bad skate order. They then have a mountain to climb after that, partly because of their lack of reputation.

    If I was Russian Fed, I will not score Makarova too badly and wait and see how things plan out with the likes of Liza and Adelina. It won't be the first time that a very promising junior has failed to deliver. Saying all these i hope, I sincerely hope Ksenia Makarova will not make Russia team. hopefully this is because she lost to a group of ladies who delivered at the nationals.

  2. #822

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    Liza, Adelina, will be on the GP just as Makarova will be and if Liza and Adelina still have their jumping ability and Liza wins a GP again or Adelina wins a GP and Ksenia performed in GPS like she did last season than the PCS at Russian nationals would reflect that. Russia has not been shy about giving wins and PCS to ineligible people for Euros and Worlds and even senior GP events.

  3. #823
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    If I was Russian Fed, I will not score Makarova too badly and wait and see how things plan out with the likes of Liza and Adelina. It won't be the first time that a very promising junior has failed to deliver. Saying all these i hope, I sincerely hope Ksenia Makarova will not make Russia team. hopefully this is because she lost to a group of ladies who delivered at the nationals.
    why Makarova's always talked with such cynicism? she's being treated like the Cinderella of Russian team; regardless of the quality of her skating, in the past people discussed about her career as though it was merely functional to the benefit of Russia (i.e. she must/must not sent to Worlds to gain the 3 spots). can't people see her just as a competitor like all the others, yea just like all the "amazing super babies who has a shot to the Sochi podium"? Ksenia's skating is enjoyable and interesting for many, she's not a puppet that can be threw up or down basing on how the others do at Nationals and the needs of the Federation.

  4. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyross View Post
    why Makarova's always talked with such cynicism? she's being treated like the Cinderella of Russian team; regardless of the quality of her skating, in the past people discussed about her career as though it was merely functional to the benefit of Russia (i.e. she must/must not sent to Worlds to gain the 3 spots). can't people see her just as a competitor like all the others, yea just like all the "amazing super babies who has a shot to the Sochi podium"? Ksenia's skating is enjoyable and interesting for many, she's not a puppet that can be threw up or down basing on how the others do at Nationals and the needs of the Federation.
    ITA! I really enjoy her skating. She's more polished than some of the other Russian girls. If she could get her jumps back to where they were a couple of years ago plus the 3lutz, she would be right there in the league of Leonova/Suzuki/Wagner.

  5. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    ITA! I really enjoy her skating. She's more polished than some of the other Russian girls. If she could get her jumps back to where they were a couple of years ago plus the 3lutz, she would be right there in the league of Leonova/Suzuki/Wagner.
    That is a huge IF. After the Olympic season she really lost her jumps - both consistency and quality / rotation. She hasn't had one solid competition in 2 full seasons. I don't believe there is one easily fixable solution to her jumping problems which should be both physical and mental at this point.

    And even IF she got her jumps back, she wouldn't be right there with the others you mentioned. Maybe Leonova, skating wise. But then she is now a world medalist and has more political clout than ever. Same for Wagner and Suzuki, but these two can actually skate and deserve higher PCS. Let's face it - Makarova isn't that good a skater to begin with (and neither is Leonova). ANd she hasn't accumulated much reputational points in a while.

    She almost lost the 3rd spot for the Russian ladies (if not for those ridiculous PCS she and Leonova received, she would have). I don't believe the Russian Fed has that much political power to cover anyone beyond Sotnikova, Tuk, Lipnitskaya and Leonova. I wanna bet the Polinas are ahead of her too.

    Remember when Leonova and Makarova were labeled the bridge between Slutskaya and the wonder babies and would be thrown into the dust once the wonder babies become age eligible? Well, Leonova has proven why she can still be kept in the field. Not Makarova.

  6. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyross View Post
    Ksenia's skating is enjoyable and interesting for many, she's not a puppet that can be threw up or down basing on how the others do at Nationals and the needs of the Federation.
    No one would care how inconsistent she is if she skates for Georgia. Too bad she skates for Russia and the field in Russia is too deep for a spot at Worlds or Olympics to be wasted on her. At the free at Worlds 2012, she landed 2 clean triples only.

  7. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    That is a huge IF. After the Olympic season she really lost her jumps - both consistency and quality / rotation. She hasn't had one solid competition in 2 full seasons. I don't believe there is one easily fixable solution to her jumping problems which should be both physical and mental at this point.
    ...which is why I said if.

    Let's face it - Makarova isn't that good a skater to begin with (and neither is Leonova).
    Disagree, and it's not like I said she'd be as good as Kostner or Kim. The ones I mentioned are pretty average in my opinion.

    She almost lost the 3rd spot for the Russian ladies (if not for those ridiculous PCS she and Leonova received, she would have). I don't believe the Russian Fed has that much political power to cover anyone beyond Sotnikova, Tuk, Lipnitskaya and Leonova. I wanna bet the Polinas are ahead of her too.
    Yes, it's a shame Makarova got sent to Worlds and almost lost the third spot, when they could've relied on the excellent performance of Korebynikova to keep it. I'm sure Shelepen would've easily placed top 11 as well to keep the three spots.


    Anyway, that's all beside the point, which was that *gasp* some people actually enjoy Makarova's skating and follow her results in and of themselves and not just for how they factor into Russian ladies skating and how many spots they'll get. But apparently this is impossible because we are all just supposed to admit that she sucks and any result she does get is only because she's overscored, because she's not elegant or interesting at all and there's no way she could ever get PCS above a 3. I seriously don't know what a skater who seems like a nice girl and has never even won an ISU championship medal did to get so much hate... it's not like she robbed any special snowflakes of a title.

    eta:
    Remember when Leonova and Makarova were labeled the bridge between Slutskaya and the wonder babies and would be thrown into the dust once the wonder babies become age eligible? Well, Leonova has proven why she can still be kept in the field. Not Makarova.
    I agree, Makarova has not done as well as Leonova, and Leonova has proven she can be a podium contender which is likely to keep her on the team this year. Why can't some of us root for Makarova to get there too? Why does everyone have to be so gleeful about her finally getting kicked off the team?

  8. #828
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    Actually, personally I think Makarova's skating has the most maturity/elegance of all the Russian ladies skaters; her SP last season was delightful, it definitely deserved its high PCS. It is Leonova's PCS that is outrageously high!

    Makarova clearly improved over the course of last season, there was a huge difference between Skate America and Worlds. She just looked like she needed a couple more months to reach her full potential for last season. Puberty certainly proved disastrous for her jumps, but so far she's shown herself to be willing to claw back her technical ability. The youngsters still have puberty to face. The timing of Sochi may be such that Makarova will finally adjust to her adult body while the youngsters will be sunk with their body changes. Not saying that will definitely happen, but it's definitely too early to write anyone off right now.

  9. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    ...which is why I said if.
    I didn't disagree. I said it's not just if, it's IF.

    Disagree, and it's not like I said she'd be as good as Kostner or Kim. The ones I mentioned are pretty average in my opinion.
    I guess we have different views on how Makarova and Suzuki can each meet the GOE and PCS criteria. I see Makarova averaging a 6.5 per PCS at her best and Suzuki an 8.5.

    Why can't some of us root for Makarova to get there too? Why does everyone have to be so gleeful about her finally getting kicked off the team?
    I have rooted for her since 2009 because she looked like she was a great talent waiting for refinement on jumping technique and choreography but she hasn't really improved since the Olympics and that is disappointing. She was such a breath of fresh air when she came onto the scene because there had been no elegance or maturity in Russian ladies skating since Butyrskaya retired. And she easily had the best layback of all the Russian ladies. But to see her compete and falter at each competition these couple of seasons is I am glad you still enjoy seeing that.

    I would love to see her do a Zhang turn-around but I don't see that as likely.
    Last edited by Marco; 09-08-2012 at 06:30 PM.

  10. #830
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyross View Post
    why Makarova's always talked with such cynicism? she's being treated like the Cinderella of Russian team; regardless of the quality of her skating, in the past people discussed about her career as though it was merely functional to the benefit of Russia (i.e. she must/must not sent to Worlds to gain the 3 spots). can't people see her just as a competitor like all the others, yea just like all the "amazing super babies who has a shot to the Sochi podium"? Ksenia's skating is enjoyable and interesting for many, she's not a puppet that can be threw up or down basing on how the others do at Nationals and the needs of the Federation.
    because of the lack of good results, just look at Leonova, she isn't much like here and still isn't but I did notice forumers here have taken the name Leonova more seriously not just another non factor, something Ksenia
    doesnt have

  11. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    Actually, personally I think Makarova's skating has the most maturity/elegance of all the Russian ladies skaters; her SP last season was delightful, it definitely deserved its high PCS. It is Leonova's PCS that is outrageously high!
    Leonova's PCS were criminally high! Makarova's were 'only' about 1 point too high per PCS and IMO deserved to be higher than Leonova no matter how each of them skate.

    Makarova clearly improved over the course of last season, there was a huge difference between Skate America and Worlds.
    Really? Skate America had a tough caller and she was dinged hard on the jumps but she did stand up on 4 triples and fell only once. At Worlds she fell twice (and both horribly) and popped open on 2 jumps. Weird false ending aside, I don;t really hate the Monroe program and thought she had decent flow and charisma.

    The youngsters still have puberty to face. The timing of Sochi may be such that Makarova will finally adjust to her adult body while the youngsters will be sunk with their body changes. Not saying that will definitely happen, but it's definitely too early to write anyone off right now.
    I totally agree. But out of the 3 wonder babies, the 2 Polinas and the 2 veterans, she has by far the easiest content so she will already be starting at an disadvantage. And I would hate to see 4 girls hit by the puberty monster.

  12. #832

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    Even if there were some UR and flaws Makarova's jump peak had to be 2010 Skate Canada.

    I don't believe all the girls will be damaged so bad by puberty. Liza, Adelina, Julia - all of them? It is not just being young and their body type that allows for triple lutz and flips and some triple triples- tremendous skill is involved and just like so many talented people have marched right through puberty with just minimal problems maybe they can be like Mao, or Yuna or Kristy or Irina or Michelle etc etc!

  13. #833
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    But to see her compete and falter at each competition these couple of seasons is I am glad you still enjoy seeing that.
    I don't enjoy seeing her compete and falter but again, that's the different perspectives we have. I don't see Makarova as just some skater who only underrotates her jumps and falls all over the ice. Admittedly, she does those things. But I like her because of the beautiful SPs she had the past two seasons with many good/clean performances, and the entertainment value of her LPs and how well she performs the character in spite of her mistakes. I see plenty of good things about her still.

  14. #834

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    I wouldn't mind watching her if there was unlimited spaces each country can send. By watching Makarova messing up when I know I would enjoy to watch someone else from that country, who in my opinion would do better is a bit annoying.

  15. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I wouldn't mind watching her if there was unlimited spaces each country can send. By watching Makarova messing up when I know I would enjoy to watch someone else from that country, who in my opinion would do better is a bit annoying.
    So far she has earned her spots to Europeans and Worlds and provided value by placing in the top 10 each time. I don't think any other age-eligible Russian woman (Biryukova or Shelepen) necessarily would've skated better at Worlds. She's also earned her GP slots this year by being 9th at Worlds. I don't see anyone suggesting that she can, will, or should make the team if others are better. I am sure if Leonova, Sotnikova, and Tuktamaysheva do well this season, the spots are theirs. I would love to see Makarova get her jumps back and be in the mix if any of them struggle, though.

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    Fans can like Makarova as much as they want and maybe she'll get sufficient shows so they can watch her skate, but the fact of the matter is she and Leonova have been outscored at Russian nationals the previous two years. They were fortunate enough that they met the age requirements and those who scored higher did not, ergo they got to go to Europeans and Worlds. This season is a different story. They will have to skate their way to both comps as well as the Olympic berths because there will be plenty of other skaters who are now ISU age eligible. If they skate lights out at Russian nationals, they'll go to Europeans/Worlds. If not, they won't. They no longer will be sent based on the fact they were the highest scoring skaters old enough to go. As has been said so often the depth of the Russian ladies is just unbelievable. Sadly, skaters who would be national champions in many, many other countries, will never skate at Europeans or Worlds much less the Olympics.
    Adelina Sotnikova defeated the curse of Esta She is indeed the Greatest Of All Time!

  17. #837

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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    Fans can like Makarova as much as they want and maybe she'll get sufficient shows so they can watch her skate, but the fact of the matter is she and Leonova have been outscored at Russian nationals the previous two years. They were fortunate enough that they met the age requirements and those who scored higher did not, ergo they got to go to Europeans and Worlds. This season is a different story. They will have to skate their way to both comps as well as the Olympic berths because there will be plenty of other skaters who are now ISU age eligible. If they skate lights out at Russian nationals, they'll go to Europeans/Worlds. If not, they won't. They no longer will be sent based on the fact they were the highest scoring skaters old enough to go. As has been said so often the depth of the Russian ladies is just unbelievable. Sadly, skaters who would be national champions in many, many other countries, will never skate at Europeans or Worlds much less the Olympics.
    Just wanted to point out that in last two years Leonova would have made the World/European team regardless of who was age eligible and who wasn't. She finished second two years ago and third last year at Russian nationals. In fact, it would have been Tuktamysheva who would stayed home both years. I have nothing against Lisa, just wanted to get the facts straight.

  18. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by babayaga View Post
    Just wanted to point out that in last two years Leonova would have made the World/European team regardless of who was age eligible and who wasn't. She finished second two years ago and third last year at Russian nationals. In fact, it would have been Tuktamysheva who would stayed home both years. I have nothing against Lisa, just wanted to get the facts straight.
    Tuk didn't go. Polina K did. And as much as I love Olyessa II, if she doesn't get her nerves under control in the SP, she may not make a 2nd trip. I'm hoping since her coach has had her baby, maybe they've worked on that issue. I don't think any particular skater is assured of a spot on the Russian ladies team. There are simply too many good skaters to predict who will skate their best at a comp. They all have a shot, including Makarova. They just have to want it bad enough. I love Adelina, but fear she'll let her nerves get in her way. Frankly, my money is on Tuk simply because Mishin has a way of motivating his skaters to want to win. If she can tap into that mind set, she has the best chance of an Olympic medal. But, in any event Russian ladies are going to be awesome to watch in every event the next two seasons. Let the best lady win.
    Last edited by rfisher; 09-08-2012 at 09:03 PM.
    Adelina Sotnikova defeated the curse of Esta She is indeed the Greatest Of All Time!

  19. #839
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    Shelepen's SP in Minsk , 1st in SP, step out in 3Lz-3t
    anyone know the music ?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDSYKFJpjSA&feature=plcp
    Last edited by love_skate2011; 09-08-2012 at 09:08 PM.

  20. #840

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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    Tuk didn't go. Polina K did.
    I know, that's not what I meant. I wanted to say that IF everyone was age eligible, Leonova would have made the team both times and Lisa wouldn't. Leonova wasn't lucky to be on the team because everyone else was young, she actually beat most of the young skaters at Russian nationals. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

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