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  1. #1
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    What is the deal with Alissa?

    Hello Everyone,
    I am a huge fan; but I dont know what is going on with her this season. Is she injured, lack confidence, undertrained, overtrainied. WHAT IS THE DEAL?

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    You can join the ongoing hand-wringing, I mean, discussion (starting with post #776) in the "US Ladies [#3]: 2011-12 news, musings & everything else" thread in the Trash Can forum.

    ETA: I've been watching Alissa compete since 2001 U.S. Nationals and she's been written off by fans many, many times before. I say: Keep your expectations low and just hope for the best!
    Last edited by Sylvia; 03-10-2012 at 11:59 PM.

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    But there's no specific Czisny thread so I don't see the harm in this one. to answer the OP, I think she's just a wildly inconsistent skater and despite her ongoing declarations of being a "brand new" skater, has never conquered that problem!

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    As time passes, the new Alissa looks more and more like the old one. Forty points behind Kostner and 20 points behind a skater who is rarely seen. Unbelievable. This combined with all this travel before Worlds does not bode well that she---or abbott for that matter--- will be in top form at Worlds

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    Was she ever a new skater though? I know Alissa loved to repeat it over and over and over again and the more she repeated it, the more the fans were trained into repeating it but I didn't buy it. 3 or 4 good competitions last year did not erase 9 years of inconsistency IMO. She got the benefit of the doubt at nationals this year (AGAIN), if she doesn't deliver at worlds , I doubt she will get the benefit next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    Was she ever a new skater though? I know Alissa loved to repeat it over and over and over again and the more she repeated it, the more the fans were trained into repeating it but I didn't buy it. 3 or 4 good competitions last year did not erase 9 years of inconsistency IMO.
    Bingo. MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY.

    I said it in the US ladies thread- I think Czisny's been in a funk all season. She has not been able to keep up the mental toughness/consistency of last season. In short, she's reverting back to old Alyssa. NOT GOOD.

    That said, can't really think of a suitable replacement for her on the world team. Zawadzki, no way...Zhang, maybe but she would have to be solid- currently she does not have much to fall back on if the jumps disappear. At least Czisny is not toast if she misses one or two jumps...

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    Japanese and Russian Feds would yank Czisny from their Worlds lineup for that performance today.

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    all this patronizing over a skater is giving me an head ache.

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    I didn't see this last skate you are talking about, but when she skated last time (white dress) and also was interviewed on TV with Adam Rippon, to me she just looked too thin or something for her age. She talked about how Adam had to deal with her empty cupboards or something like that....which seems a but unusual for an adult athlete. Maybe it was just the angle or something but I thought she seemed just a tiny bit frail or weak. Sayin' this out of care as I am fan. I know she wants to be a model but I don't know if that is what is best for the athlete mind and body. I think it would be nice to see her with some more strength in her muscles.........wait, didn't we say the same things about Johnny when he talked about needing to be hungry? Sigh.
    I will hope for her to be able to do her best next time out!

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    I get that impression too. She was never a powerful skater to begin with but she seems to be even weaker now. I'm surprised she was even trying a double axel-3toe because you need some serious muscle to get that done. She's noticeably smaller than she was a couple of years ago, even from last year. Didn't she talk about how she became a vegan a couple of years ago? It's hard enough to get adequate nutrients when you're a vegan, let alone when you're an athlete that needs lots of protein and energy. You also need to worry about injury prevention, since you're much less likely to be injured if you're in good shape, i.e. not too frail.

    I'm not trying to insinuate anything here; it's less a question of weight and more a question of fitness IMO. I think Ashley Wagner is a perfect example, she's obviously thin but the girl is quite muscular. She's in incredible shape and appears to have the perfect balance. Alissa to me is definitely thinner but not fitter. There's no way she could have the strength to skate Ashley's program with the same attack and power, let alone the jumps. There have been discussions before about skaters looking out of shape and I think it should be noted that too far under ideal weight is as much "out of shape" as too far over. You don't want to go too far in either direction because it won't give you peak performance.

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    Alissa is vegetarian, not vegan.

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    Alissa is inconsistent and will always be inconsistent IMO. Even when she is on, she looks hesitant and downright scared on the ice.

    She seems like a sweet girl and has wonderful spins and presentation on the ice, but the jumps just aren't there for her on a consistent basis.

    Here's hoping she has a great outing at Worlds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triple_toe View Post
    I get that impression too. She was never a powerful skater to begin with but she seems to be even weaker now. I'm surprised she was even trying a double axel-3toe because you need some serious muscle to get that done. She's noticeably smaller than she was a couple of years ago, even from last year. Didn't she talk about how she became a vegan a couple of years ago? It's hard enough to get adequate nutrients when you're a vegan, let alone when you're an athlete that needs lots of protein and energy. You also need to worry about injury prevention, since you're much less likely to be injured if you're in good shape, i.e. not too frail.

    I'm not trying to insinuate anything here; it's less a question of weight and more a question of fitness IMO. I think Ashley Wagner is a perfect example, she's obviously thin but the girl is quite muscular. She's in incredible shape and appears to have the perfect balance. Alissa to me is definitely thinner but not fitter. There's no way she could have the strength to skate Ashley's program with the same attack and power, let alone the jumps. There have been discussions before about skaters looking out of shape and I think it should be noted that too far under ideal weight is as much "out of shape" as too far over. You don't want to go too far in either direction because it won't give you peak performance.

    triple-toe,
    You have given a thoughtful analysis to an ongoing potential controversy in FS (and other sports). This first came up when Alissa switched coaches after her "big meltdown" at 2010 Nationals. I believe she is vegetarian, not vegan. But, either way, at the time there was discussion on a thread or two about her physical changes as a result of a major overhaul in coaches, attitude, diet, etc. etc. ...the "new Alissa."

    She was definitely a bit lighter, but it also coincided with her sudden explosive improvement under Yuka and Jason.
    ...And, yes, there was concern (I was one of the folks concerned for the reasons you outline...protein, nutrients, etc.).

    OTOH, the fact is she currently looks EXACTLY the same as he did when she won U.S. and GPF.
    No difference at all. She is NOT suddenly thinner and more frail compared to June-Aug 2010.

    What IS different is the accumulative effect of years of repetititive pounding and stress......what this sport can do do to a human body. I don't think this is underappreciated within the ranks of FS, except among those who refuse to read and understand the legitimate available research.

    What IS underappreciated is what can be done about it and the cost. If you get far enough down the research road to appreciate that this can be addressed through nutritional supplementation, you quickly realize how expensive it is ($300-700 per month) to provide the legal supplements (available in any health food store) required to mitigate the effects of protein cross-linking, free radical, and inflammatory response DAMAGE. We're talking about vitamin E (alpha and gamma versions), vitamin C, Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), Gamma-linolenic acid(in small amounts),
    and a dozen other inhibitors of inflammatory responses to repetitive injuries and their effect on the profile and cascade of eicosenoids, prostaglandins, thromboxanes, prostacyclins, and leukotreines.

    Alissa avoided serious injury for years, I believe, through the use of the Jackson flex boots. Once she went back to traditional boots, her risk of eventual injury went up tremendously. Combined with the passage of years, lack of nutritional supplements to combat and mitigate inflammatory, cross-linking, and free radical damage from repetitive pounding, Alissa was vulnerable to having a significant injury for the first time in her career.
    GPF 3 months ago was that significant injury.

    As a fan, I remember sort of bragging how Alissa's training routine protected her and allowed her to compete without the career-ending injuries that so many before her had to endure. Without serious attention to the preventative aspects of her diet (as it pertains to inflammation and cross-linking, aka stiffening of joints, tendons, etc.) ...in other words, at age 23-34 without nutritional supplementation to mitigate the training damage to a 23-24 year-old body, Alissa will be challenged to continue competing at the elite international level, IMHO......regardless of how "frail" or not that she looks at the moment.



    .
    Last edited by geod2; 03-11-2012 at 04:06 PM.

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    Czisny is the last of the 'glamorous' champions, but like most of the pretty ones, not very consistent. Think of Nicole Bobek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Fever View Post
    Czisny is the last of the 'glamorous' champions, but like most of the pretty ones, not very consistent. Think of Nicole Bobek.
    Well, yeah, but for reasons that couldn't possibly be more different.

    Each inspired FS fans with their story of "redemption"....but otherwise, they are worlds apart...

    .

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    I wanted to start a thread about this yesterday but I said"dont" because i was not sure if people would be real or not since most are in love with Alissa. Anyway, I am tempted to wonder if she should have retired after last year. She is just as inconsistent in practice by the way. I have stopped into the Detroit Skating Club to watch skaters. You can on one rink watch top dance teams and in the other watch top singles skaters. Because of Camerlengo, you might catch an international skater as well ie. Daisuke. Anyway, Czisny is just as land two triple loops and fall hard on the third as she is in competition.

    One thing that she does that I believe kills her every time is ignore the audience while she skates. She psychologically is just NOT strong enough to do that nor should she be. If she let them into her skates, I believe that she could ride and use that wave of emotion that is in the air if you would. Anyway, there comes a time in the life of every professional no matter their area of expertise where the answer is not a psychologist, not a new environment, or any other external force. The area is within the space of your two ears. You have to grab your situation by the horns and just make it happen. FLAT OUT. when Alissa is interviewed, and perhaps she has been coached to do this by a publicist but she seems very flippant about her performances as if we’re all crazy for expecting her to actually have control over her performances.


    Of course it’s a shame that she messes up. Whats worse is that now, she’s messing up on the easiest of things ie; a double axel!!! I just think that there comes a time when a skater has to say you know what, I’ve been doing these jumps for over a decade. I’m done falling on them. End of story! True champions have an audacity and toughness and grit to them that is tangible compelling to see. Alissa does not act like a confident, aggressive champion to me. Until she does, either we should call success for her a top 10 performance or she should just enjoy being in the bottom of the pack.

    Sucks because SHE’S THE BEST SKATER OUT THERE!!!!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by geod2 View Post
    triple-toe,
    You have given a thoughtful analysis to an ongoing potential controversy in FS (and other sports). This first came up when Alissa switched coaches after her "big meltdown" at 2010 Nationals. I believe she is vegetarian, not vegan. But, either way, at the time there was discussion on a thread or two about her physical changes as a result of a major overhaul in coaches, attitude, diet, etc. etc. ...the "new Alissa."

    She was definitely a bit lighter, but it also coincided with her sudden explosive improvement under Yuka and Jason.
    ...And, yes, there was concern (I was one of the folks concerned for the reasons you outline...protein, nutrients, etc.).

    OTOH, the fact is she currently looks EXACTLY the same as he did when she won U.S. and GPF.
    No difference at all. She is NOT suddenly thinner and more frail compared to June-Aug 2010.

    What IS different is the accumulative effect of years of repetititive pounding and stress......what this sport can do do to a human body. I don't think this is underappreciated within the ranks of FS, except among those who refuse to read and understand the legitimate available research.

    What IS underappreciated is what can be done about it and the cost. If you get far enough down the research road to appreciate that this can be addressed through nutritional supplementation, you quickly realize how expensive it is ($300-700 per month) to provide the legal supplements (available in any health food store) required to mitigate the effects of protein cross-linking, free radical, and inflammatory response DAMAGE. We're talking about vitamin E (alpha and gamma versions), vitamin C, Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), Gamma-linolenic acid(in small amounts),
    and a dozen other inhibitors of inflammatory responses to repetitive injuries and their effect on the profile and cascade of eicosenoids, prostaglandins, thromboxanes, prostacyclins, and leukotreines.

    Alissa avoided serious injury for years, I believe, through the use of the Jackson flex boots. Once she went back to traditional boots, her risk of eventual injury went up tremendously. Combined with the passage of years, lack of nutritional supplements to combat and mitigate inflammatory, cross-linking, and free radical damage from repetitive pounding, Alissa was vulnerable to having a significant injury for the first time in her career.
    GPF 3 months ago was that significant injury.

    As a fan, I remember sort of bragging how Alissa's training routine protected her and allowed her to compete without the career-ending injuries that so many before her had to endure. Without serious attention to the preventative aspects of her diet (as it pertains to inflammation and cross-linking, aka stiffening of joints, tendons, etc.) ...in other words nutritional supplementation to mitigate the training damage to a 23-24 year-old body, Alissa will be challenged to continue competing at the elite international level, IMHO......regardless of how "frail" or not that she looks at the moment.



    .
    Good Stuff

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    The last two pre-nationals sendoff at Detroit SC. 2011 sendoff: Czisny had a rough night, but her nationals was great. 2012 sendoff: rough night too, and nationals also so so.

    Jeremy's sendoff tended to correlate more with his nationals performance though.

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    I think Alissa needs more carbs in her diet. She lacks energy and stamina.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    Alissa is vegetarian, not vegan.
    Sorry, my mistake. That certainly makes it easier, but still difficult.

    geod2, you make some very, very good points about how it's not just stresses but cumulative stresses that play a part. Alissa's body at 23 will be more taxed from years of skating/possible inadequate diet than someone who is 18. I think it's certainly possible to keep skating into your mid-20s at a high level, but you have to be extremely careful about taking care of your body. It becomes more of a science when you have to start paying for stupid things you did as a teenager, like doing 30 triple flip everyday for weeks, not stretching and strength training properly, not eating well, etc. Look at Carolina Kostner, she's about the same age as Alissa and doing better than ever. She looks strong, controlled, and happy and I wish the same for Alissa.

    There's no denying that this is an aesthetic sport and you need to look good on the ice. There's also no denying that when you're in good shape, things are easier. But I think sometimes the line between thin and in-shape is blurred. They overlap for sure but it isn't the same thing. Skating is such a demanding sport and it has become more so with all the twisty COP positions, so being healthy needs to be the first priority.

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