What does Takahashi need to do?

[mikeko]

Jump discussion aside, Takahashi really needs to improve his spins.

Check the protocol before you post.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._FS_Scores.pdf

Spins in LP:

Chan:
FCCoSp1 2.00 0.79
CSSp4 3.00 1.00
CCoSp4 3.50 1.07

Takahashi:
CCSp4 3.20 0.50
FCCoSp4 3.50 0.71
CCoSp4 3.50 1.00

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Takahashi has it all! He needs just more luuuuuurve from us, putting more banners for him than for Chan!

And a haircut.

[os168]

Takahashi has it all! He needs just more luuuuuurve from us, putting more banners for him than for Chan!

And a haircut.

NOOOOoooooo he certainly does not!

Hair cut I mean... it is purrrrrrfect thank you very much!
Don't mess with the Hair! He ain't the Elvis of Figure skating for nothing!!

Patrick Chan on the other hand can stick with his old altar boy hair cut in the church of COP, don't really care.

[Marco]

Check the protocol before you post.
http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._FS_Scores.pdf

Spins in LP:

Chan:
FCCoSp1 2.00 0.79
CSSp4 3.00 1.00
CCoSp4 3.50 1.07

Takahashi:
CCSp4 3.20 0.50
FCCoSp4 3.50 0.71
CCoSp4 3.50 1.00

So Chan messed up the levels on his flying spin. Other than that, you will see that Chan gets higher GOEs on each corresponding spin than Takahashi.

[lauravvv]

Just want to give some specifics on Dai's program and then later compare to Usova Zhulin in 1993. Yes, different discipline, but many of the interpretation criteria are similar. I'll also highlight some pieces from Chan.

Great post, indeed (why there's no simple thumbs up smiley?).

I too am one of those who love Dai much more than Patrick. and I've always almost taken it for granted that Dai also interprets the music better than Chan. I had my doubts with his LP this season, although the wonderful Latvian commentator thought that he interpreted his music better than Patrick this time as well. And now you've helped me to understand why (that is, why I had those doubts). Thank you for that, Rock2, really.

[skaterdelight]

ALL I WANT IS FOR DAI TO KEEP SKATING SO I CAN KEEP ON SEEING HIS WONDERFUL ARTISTRY AND INTERESTING PROGRAMS AND SOUL!!! Hopefully, along the way he'll continue to get medals - gold or otherwise and gets satisfaction from his efforts. It takes courage to come back from injuries and compete inspite of them. The PCS scoring is sh______t as far as I'm concerned.

I can enjoy Chan and appreciate what he's got to offer but one program is like another to me. Let's see if he can continue to do 2 quads next season and the next season or if he comes down with injuries which so many other competitors have done and see what his scores will be like then. This year his skating skills have shown weaknesses with bobbles, slips and falls in every competition and his program lacks any emotional commitment, yet the judges have still overscored his skating skills in PCS. What will happen if he doesn't have those quads all the time.

As a skating fan though, I'm always glad to watch great competitors, whether they are jumpers, artists or just fierce competitors. Having a whole bunch of any of those in a competition is like being in a candy store with all my favorite candies.

[skaterdelight]

Double post.

[jettasian]

NOOOOoooooo he certainly does not!

Hair cut I mean... it is purrrrrrfect thank you very much!
Don't mess with the Hair! He ain't the Elvis of Figure skating for nothing!!

Patrick Chan on the other hand can stick with his old altar boy hair cut in the church of COP, don't really care.

Your love for Dai's great. No need to insult Chan and his look.

[jettasian]

I can enjoy Chan and appreciate what he's got to offer but one program is like another to me. Let's see if he can continue to do 2 quads next season and the next season or if he comes down with injuries which so many other competitors have done and see what his scores will be like then. This year his skating skills have shown weaknesses with bobbles, slips and falls in every competition and his program lacks any emotional commitment, yet the judges have still overscored his skating skills in PCS. What will happen if he doesn't have those quads all the time.

Besides his quads, he has great skating skill, great body line, great artistry, great speed, great transitions, great spins, great footworks, great interpretation of music, great edges and smooth and effortless overall of his skate.

[Doubletoe]

So Chan messed up the levels on his flying spin. Other than that, you will see that Chan gets higher GOEs on each corresponding spin than Takahashi.

Takahashi beats Chan on spins because he does spins with a higher base value and gets +GOE on top of that, for a higher total spin score. If Chan can do higher valued spins and get the same GOE, then he should. Takahashi and Kozuka are both brilliant at selecting spins that have the highest base values, then getting level 4's and +GOE on them.

Entire post

^ Much appreciated, Rock2! I am a huge Takahashi fan, but Patrick's skating has some qualities that a well-trained eye will really value and that are hard for any other skater to match. The only thing I disagree on is Takahashi's "head bops". It's really hard to stay upright and balanced while moving your head like that, so I give HUGE props to any skater who can do it!

[Macassar88]

He needs to conquer more than 6 inches.

Or maybe a Judge's six inches...

[os168]

.

[Dragonlady]

I can think of other aspects of Contesti and Verner's physical appearance to distract me from their less than stellar skating than their hair.

[indicatoto101]

Or maybe a Judge's six inches...

I think Daisuke is past his prime (unfortunately) and cannot improve technically to beat Chan on that mark. The judges seem to favor Chan's interpretation and programs so Daisuke isn't beating him on the second mark either. Unless the judges are brainwashed, I dont' see Daisuke ever beating a decent skate from Chan.

[Macassar88]

Two words: Tonya Harding...

[Fozzie Bear]

Takahashi is 26 years old. His jumps are not going to get any better.

And yet over the past two seasons his jumps have been getting better.

I really hope he works with Schoenfelder again this summer.

[A judge]

And yet over the past two seasons his jumps have been getting better.

I really hope he works with Schoenfelder again this summer.

We shall see. I really feel that he has reached his peak jump wise.

[vodkashot]

We shall see. I really feel that he has reached his peak jump wise.

I'm tempted to say the same, but then again, Daisuke's success rate with his quad about two seasons ago (i.e. Olympic season) was basically zero in competition. This season, if I recall correctly, he's landed proper 3 quads in competition (I'm counting the 4T in his Worlds SP as clean, and although he 2footed the one in his Worlds LP, he got full credit and positive GOE overall so I'm counting that one too). Maybe this upward trend will continue next season.....

Other things Daisuke can consider doing:

1) Keep his SP from this season. Personally, I think it's the better of his two programs this season (and the judges seem to agree if the PCS is any indication) and he can really work on nailing the quad in the SP instead of learning more new choreography, etc

2) Firmly establish himself as the Japanese #1 man for more rep points. In this vein, he really needs to deal with Yuzuru Hanyu, who is looking more and more dangerous every season. Daisuke really needs to either a) get his quads solid so he can keep up TES-wise, or b) hire some goons to club Yuzuru's knee. I suggest a), but YMMV.

3) Return to France this summer and continue working with Schoenfelder on his SS again.

[Zemgirl]

Other things Daisuke can consider doing:

1) Keep his SP from this season. Personally, I think it's the better of his two programs this season (and the judges seem to agree if the PCS is any indication) and he can really work on nailing the quad in the SP instead of learning more new choreography, etc

2) Firmly establish himself as the Japanese #1 man for more rep points. In this vein, he really needs to deal with Yuzuru Hanyu, who is looking more and more dangerous every season. Daisuke really needs to either a) get his quads solid so he can keep up TES-wise, or b) hire some goons to club Yuzuru's knee. I suggest a), but YMMV.

3) Return to France this summer and continue working with Schoenfelder on his SS again.

I would love for Takahashi to keep his SP, which is wonderful, but he doesn't often recycle programs, does he?

I don't know if he'll ever have a consistent quad again - it's now been, what, three years since he came back to the ice after the injury, and he's still dealing with getting the consistency back on it. I guess he'll just have to decide when and how often to take the risk.

IIRC, in one of the press conferences at 2010 Worlds, Takahashi said he'd have to continue working hard because there were so many good juniors coming up, specifically mentioning Hanyu. I don't see him turning to criminal pursuits to deal with this threat, though

[briancoogaert]

He needs to workd on skating skills to maintain the edge a little longer. He has everything and would have been multiple times World Champion without Patrick Chan being here. But Patrick Chan is here.