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  1. #1
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    What does Takahashi need to do?

    I know a lot of Chan supporters who seperate him from Takahashi, and I was wondering, in what area do you all think that Takahashi needs to improve in order to make himself as good as Patrick? What do you feel he is lacking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by johndockley92 View Post
    I know a lot of Chan supporters who seperate him from Takahashi, and I was wondering, in what area do you all think that Takahashi needs to improve in order to make himself as good as Patrick? What do you feel he is lacking?
    He is only lacking a clean quad and a clean quad triple. Then he will win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A judge View Post
    He is only lacking a clean quad and a clean quad triple. Then he will win.
    Let's see--in this thread and another, you've posted almost exclusively on the necessity of quads in a program to be scored well.

    Why does this remind me so much of another poster who had a similar quad obsession ?

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    He needs a quad in the short and two in the long then maybe he can beat Patrick. He also needs a better music choice next season. I think maybe the reason he didn't get PCS close to Patrick's was because some judges didn't like Blues for Klook.

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    Eh, besides QUADS, he needs better SPEED, better SKATING SKILL, better EDGES, better TRANSITIONS, better CHOREOGRAPHY, better PROGRAM to show off his skill and body line, better STYLE, more COMPLEX FOOTWORK...

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    - Semi-consistent 4-3 in the short
    - 4-3, 4 in the long
    - More transitions into/out of his jumps and less time setting them up, especially on his non-money jumps, like the solo 3S he puts at the front of his long
    - Don't rely on cool variations for the spins in order to get levels, no matter how awesome they look and go with the program Sad to say, but it's true. Patrick's spins are very bland and he is not the best spinner, but whoever puts them together is very good at making sure they are ones he can pretty much do in his sleep and get the levels on. Daisuke's team has not always been good at that. Frankly, neither of them should really be getting much in the way of positive GOE because neither is that good a spinner (I think Daisuke is a bit faster but Patrick is better at staying centered), but levels >>>> GOE for points anyway.
    - Just more transitions/balanced program construction in general. He still has a lot and his programs are much better than a lot of the other men, but they're not on Patrick's level yet, and there are still parts where they feel almost like he's skating from element to element. Then again, it's not like PCS are always based in reality, so maybe not, but it is a difference I notice between their programs, although I don't think it's necessarily always scored correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    Eh, besides QUADS, he needs better SPEED, better SKATING SKILL, better EDGES, better TRANSITIONS, better CHOREOGRAPHY, better PROGRAM to show off his skill and body line, better STYLE, more COMPLEX FOOTWORK...
    Have you ever skated? Honest question.

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    One thing that impressed me with Dai was how much had improved on his flying sit spin. Earlier in the season I kind of cringed when I watched it because it was clearly inferior to his other elements. This time both of them were really good.

    If you are looking at components I agree with doubleflutz about going from element to element. His step sequences when it comes to the musicality are superb, but I felt in his FS when he was getting the first few elements out of the way there was a hesitation and a lot of set up. He "fell out" of the performance at those moments when he focussed on setting up the big elements. It would be good to see those elements happening more out of the choreography.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    Eh, besides QUADS, he needs better SPEED, better SKATING SKILL, better EDGES, better TRANSITIONS, better CHOREOGRAPHY, better PROGRAM to show off his skill and body line, better STYLE, more COMPLEX FOOTWORK...
    So in other words he just needs to be BETTER!!!!
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    One thing that impressed me with Dai was how much had improved on his flying sit spin. Earlier in the season I kind of cringed when I watched it because it was clearly inferior to his other elements. This time both of them were really good.
    He's improved everything so much this season, honestly, it's really inspiring. Actually, Patrick and Daisuke both have, but I'm amazed at how much Dai has upped his game in the skating skills and the spinning from just a season ago. I remember how impressed I was with the sequence in his Hip-Hop Swan Lake, and then I look at the back part of the steps in Garden of Souls and it's like he's a whole different skater. Just insane. And he's been beaten up and injured for like a million years! Honestly, so many of the guys have improved so much since Vancouver. It's really wonderful to see. I think Patrick does deserve a lot of credit for that.

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    I am glad Chan and Takahashi kinda pushed each other to become better. Takahashi has much better spins (and jumps) now and Chan is expressing himself much better as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I am glad Chan and Takahashi kinda pushed each other to become better. Takahashi has much better spins (and jumps) now and Chan is expressing himself much better as well.
    This is true! My 2 favourites are making each other even better!

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    He needs more time. His quad progress has been astounding! Since he came back in 2009he has gone from no success to so much success in both SP and LP. Now there was the change in rules to introduce underrotation and not just automatic downgrade but there is no doubt that there has been tremendous improvement in that jump for him. He has not just benefitted by the new rules but improved the jump. He has been completely serious about getting to where he was at 2009 4CC and is getting there. He has it all!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jettasian View Post
    Eh, besides QUADS, he needs better SPEED, better SKATING SKILL, better EDGES, better TRANSITIONS, better CHOREOGRAPHY, better PROGRAM to show off his skill and body line, better STYLE, more COMPLEX FOOTWORK...
    Excuse me while I vomit.

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    He needs to conquer more than 6 inches.

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    If we compared all of Patrick's and Dai's programs the past two seasons, I am fairly certain that Patrick has made more mistakes. Granted, Patrick's programs are more difficult, hence more mistakes, especially when he's working on a new program. But he's also less experienced than Dai, who has overcome past consistency issues.

    Patrick's 3-A has become amazingly consistent this season, but he's made mistakes on at least one that I remember, as well as mistakes on quads and footwork.

    I'd suggest Takahashi include a 4/3 in the short and aim to skate a completely clean short to take advantage of any mistakes made by Chan. This might give him a good enough lead to have a better chance of beating Chan overall.

    He also needs to study the system and get feedback from judges about how he can improve his PCS and where he leaves points on the table.

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    I daresay as a top skater in Japan he probably gets plenty of feedback. He probably understands the system very well, it is a matter of applying it.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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    I was just watching Chan's and Takahashi's exhibition skates last night and thought to myself: Takahashi is the better performer / artist but Chan is definitely the better skater. Takahashi is effortless in his expressions and Chan is effortless in his glides. If they both push each other into improving on the other person's strength, they can soon become super skaters.

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    I`ve seen Dai as a 15-year-old at Nations Cup and he fell all the time. But he recovered quickly and seemed to be unimpressed. Even then you could see his enormous talent and it was great to see how he improved every year.

    He is no doubt one of the two best skaters in the world, but I must admit that for the first time I was a bit disappointed in his free program. The choreo was a little empty and I had flashes of KvdP and Joubert in mind - maybe because of the music, but still. His spins have become better, but are not centered and I think his footwork was not as strong as in the previous years. Usually his programs are extremly interesting, but he needs to find both music and choreo that expresses his style and strengths. And of course he needs the quads.

    Patrick has become extremly confident this season, he grew up (I had to love when I watched his 4CC exhibition, it is so true) and I think is is way superior when it comes to natural skills. He still needs to focus more to avoid stupd mistakes and his spins could be better. But overall he is a notch above Dai in his abilities and will be hard to beat. I have been watching skating for more than 35 years now and for me he is the most talented of all - if he is able to hold it together.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I was just watching Chan's and Takahashi's exhibition skates last night and thought to myself: Takahashi is the better performer / artist but Chan is definitely the better skater. Takahashi is effortless in his expressions and Chan is effortless in his glides. If they both push each other into improving on the other person's strength, they can soon become super skaters.
    ^^ This And it is because of them both, men's figure skating is soooo good right now.

    And in the meantime Hanyu will continue to improve leaps and bounds and eventually take over from them both for the OGM Sochi

    He is rumoured working a 4S for next year, can't wait!

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