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  1. #21
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    He needs the off ice training Orser wanted him to do, but Adam, I understand, balked at.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by foreverkwanfan View Post
    Next season Johnny and Evan return......
    Never thought i'd be keeping my fingers crossed for that, but I am!
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lily View Post
    Wasn't Adam better with Orser?
    It started out that way, but by the end of their partnership, no, he was skating worse than he was this season. Anyways, the issue with Adam is simply his jumps, his results and scores this season show that his score ceiling without a solid 3a or quad is around 220 points. That's not terrible, but it's not going to make him competitive with the best. Everything else in Adam's skating is just fine, good even, but his scores and even PCS won't improve until he gets the jump down. He needs to find a way to get either the 3a or the 4s (ideally both) pretty rock solid if he wants to do better, currently he's just giving too many points away by falling and way underrotating his 4s and having issues with the landings of his 3a, which is not of good quality to begin with (even when cleanly landed, the GOE should be 0 to -1 IMO). If he can fix these things, he will do well, but if he can't, he's not going anywhere and is unlikely to make another World team.

  4. #24

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    I bet you anything Adam gets a new coach this summer. That's just the way he handles setbacks...

    And, FWIW, he is nowhere close to landing a quad. It's silly that Jason even let him put in the program this year.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    He needs the off ice training Orser wanted him to do, but Adam, I understand, balked at.
    Really??? Isn't off-ice training standard for skaters?

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    Really??? Isn't off-ice training standard for skaters?
    i think he needs to put on more muscle. i've seen him numerous times in person, before/after training. he is extremely thin, much more so than others (abbott/buttle are thin too, but adam looks painful). perhaps more off ice weight lifting/small amounts of muscle gaining will help him get the explosiveness he needs for the 3axel/quad.

  7. #27

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    I always get slammed for bringing this up, but Jeremy, Adam, and Alissa all look physically fragile to me. I know fat doesn't fly, but skating a 4 minute + program requires strength and endurance, it's not ballet or gymnastics. Maybe if they worked on their off-ice fitness they would do better? The nerves and adrenaline that go with competition can really sap your energy. Also program run throughs throughout the season take a toll on your muscles, especially when you are doing the same program over and over.

    I know Meryl and Evan are extremely thin, but whatever diet/fitness regimen they have seems to work for them.

    Of course, Evan and Meryl also seem to be internally motivated, while Adam and Alissa always seem to be looking to their coach for reinforcement. Not much you can do about that.

  8. #28
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    I hear lots of comments about speed and power and off ice regimen. I, too, have heard that Adam has some sort of training commitment issues.
    It's tough to find the right amount of size/weight to ensure you have the right combo of power, strength and that sinewy body that turns so well in the air.

    Training problems aside I don't think he has the best body for skating. Thinner on top, yes, but lots of junk in the trunk, as it were. His stroking and jumping looks labored. Just seems he needs improvements in diet and/or fitness and/or body shaping to optimize his performance. But without knowing what he has done in the past, hard to know what specifically he needs.

    Skating is in this strange little place right now where few are dominating and at both the national and international level you can mix and match 6-12 entries in your picks for the podium. We could see Adam as the national champ next year just as easily as he could be 9th. So he, like many, will need a good off-season plan.

  9. #29
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    Dependancy

    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    I always get slammed for bringing this up, but Jeremy, Adam, and Alissa all look physically fragile to me. I know fat doesn't fly, but skating a 4 minute + program requires strength and endurance, it's not ballet or gymnastics. Maybe if they worked on their off-ice fitness they would do better? The nerves and adrenaline that go with competition can really sap your energy. Also program run throughs throughout the season take a toll on your muscles, especially when you are doing the same program over and over.

    I know Meryl and Evan are extremely thin, but whatever diet/fitness regimen they have seems to work for them.

    Of course, Evan and Meryl also seem to be internally motivated, while Adam and Alissa always seem to be looking to their coach for reinforcement. Not much you can do about that.
    I see a really weird dependancy issue with the Detroit based skaters and their coaches as well. Its like Jason reaffirms his validity as a coach by his relationship with his skaters. weird.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    And, FWIW, he is nowhere close to landing a quad. It's silly that Jason even let him put in the program this year.
    Is this based on the percentage that Rippon lands the quad in practice?
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    I know fat doesn't fly, but skating a 4 minute + program requires strength and endurance, it's not ballet or gymnastics.
    Because gymnastics and (especially) ballet don't require strength and endurance (you do know that ballets are a lot longer than 4 minutes, right?)
    Q: Why can't I read the competition threads?
    A: Competition forums on the board are available to those with a Season Pass or a premium membership How to View Kiss & Cry

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    Because gymnastics and (especially) ballet don't require strength and endurance (you do know that ballets are a lot longer than 4 minutes, right?)
    My point was that skating a long program requires a different type of strength and endurance. My understanding is that ballet and gymnastics are not aerobic activities, while skating is both aerobic and anerobic. Anerobic activities require a different diet and use different muscles.

    Ballet dancers and gymnasts try to avoid bulk at all costs, do they not? Skaters can't always afford to avoid a certain amount of bulky muscle. It takes calories to stroke around a 200 foot rink for 4 minutes at top speed. Maybe in the old days skaters could stop and pose or have a prolonged slow section, but not any more.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    Ballet dancers and gymnasts try to avoid bulk at all costs, do they not?
    Gymnasts who do AA probably try to limit their muscle bulk in order not to make certain events/skills more dificult. OTOH, if you're purely a vault specialist who really cares if your quads are huge? Better explosive power is a plus. I can think of plenty of gymnasts who are powerful and look muscular. Girls pair skaters are closest to a gymnast's body in skating, really.

    ETA: Are you talking about rhythmic gymnastics instead of artistic?

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    Ballet dancers and gymnasts try to avoid bulk at all costs, do they not?
    Not the men. Male gymnasts are usually solid bulk upper and lower body. If you look at a top male gymnasts arms- they are the definition of bulk in most cases.

    Male ballet dancers usually have incredible quads and calves- and upper body like pairs men - STRONG- I recently read a cycling blog about a man who went to see a ballet with his wife, his though was "wow- he's going to need to lose some of that upper body bulk if he ever wants to be a good climber" So clearly, ballet dancers have more upper body strength than cyclists (and similar legs).

    I've never thought Adam look fragile. There was a video of him in shorts at nationals, and his legs are solid muscle.

  15. #35
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    Most gymnasts are not that thin honestly. Short and with minimal body fat to be sure, but most elite gymnasts, male and female, appear much stronger and more muscular than the average elite figure skaters. Nastia Liukin was unusually thin for a gymnast, and next to Mao Asada, Pang Tong, Vera Bazarova, etc. I'm sure she'd look much sturdier/stronger. Skaters who have a build more similar to that of an elite gymnast that I can think of off the top of my head would be Joannie Rochette, Ashley Wagner, Amelie Lacoste, Megan Duhamel, Marybeth Marley, and Gracie Gold for the women (Agnes Zawadzki too, although she'd be way taller for a gymnast than she even is for skating) and Keegan Messing, Patrick Chan, Brian Joubert, Kevin Van Der Perren, Rockne Brubaker, and Richard Dornbush for the men. I disagree that a female gymnast would be built most similarly to a pairs skater, the male pairs skaters are maybe built like male gymnasts but taller for the most part, but most pairs girls are so frail looking.

  16. #36
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    With all of the "What's going with Alissa?", one questions what's going on with the coaching? This coaching stable has gone from getting early, spectacular results from both Alissa & Jeremy to the devastating results these two experienced at this recent World's. Add Adam to the mix & one really wonders what is happening?

    P.S. Perhaps they inspire and tweak effectively, but their long-term coaching techniques are not yet fully developed. Even so, they are a young, outstanding coaching team that I hope continues to develop & produce outstanding skaters.
    Last edited by Leeedward; 04-02-2012 at 10:02 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeedward View Post
    With all of the "What's going with Alissa?", one questions what's going on with the coaching? This coaching stable has gone from getting early, spectacular results from both Alissa & Jeremy to the devastating results these two experienced at this recent World's. Add Adam to the mix & one really wonders what is happening?
    Last year they mainly concentrated on Jeremy and Alissa but now they have so many new students. Maybe that messed things up.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    I always get slammed for bringing this up, but Jeremy, Adam, and Alissa all look physically fragile to me. .
    Jeremy...when watching 2010 nationals live, it actually struck me, when compared to Evan and Johnny, how relatively more "bulky" he is--at least he is bulkier waist down. Slightly bigger hip and legs than average.
    Not that he's not skinny, but he's not super super skinny for a male skater.
    Last edited by jlai; 04-03-2012 at 04:25 AM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    I always get slammed for bringing this up, but Jeremy, Adam, and Alissa all look physically fragile to me. I know fat doesn't fly, but skating a 4 minute + program requires strength and endurance, it's not ballet or gymnastics. Maybe if they worked on their off-ice fitness they would do better? The nerves and adrenaline that go with competition can really sap your energy. Also program run throughs throughout the season take a toll on your muscles, especially when you are doing the same program over and over.

    I know Meryl and Evan are extremely thin, but whatever diet/fitness regimen they have seems to work for them.

    Of course, Evan and Meryl also seem to be internally motivated, while Adam and Alissa always seem to be looking to their coach for reinforcement. Not much you can do about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    My point was that skating a long program requires a different type of strength and endurance. My understanding is that ballet and gymnastics are not aerobic activities, while skating is both aerobic and anerobic. Anerobic activities require a different diet and use different muscles.

    Ballet dancers and gymnasts try to avoid bulk at all costs, do they not? Skaters can't always afford to avoid a certain amount of bulky muscle. It takes calories to stroke around a 200 foot rink for 4 minutes at top speed. Maybe in the old days skaters could stop and pose or have a prolonged slow section, but not any more.
    I'm curious. Have you ever seen an elite female gymnast?

    Here's a photo of the 2008 United States women's gymnastic team: http://0.tqn.com/d/gymnastics/1/0/t/...TY82281166.jpg. It speaks for itself.

    For that matter, did you ever see Midori Ito, Tonya Harding, and Surya Bonaly in their prima? Have you ever seen Maé Bérénice Méité?

    Alissa Czisny has a different body type from those skaters, but she doesn't look physically fragile to me. (She looks more if you ask me.) I think you may be confusing her facial expressions with her physique.

  20. #40
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    Neither would give specifics about the training ideas, but in listening to both, it seemed clear Rippon felt he was allowed to peak too early, while Orser thought the skater's ideas about what constituted off-ice training were part of the problem.
    http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...ting/kim-yuna/

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