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  1. #61
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    I'm with flowerpower: it's just an absolutely ridiculous thing to say that V/M have peaked and can't get any better. I want to know what they're smoking if they think that V/M haven't improved since their senior debut. IMO, they're better now than they were two years ago.

    This is sort of related to the above, but I also think that performance (interpretation, I suppose would be more correct) tends to improve as skaters get older. I think it's a function of just having different life experiences, and the only way to get those is to live. I know I grew a lot personally in my 20's--particularly my early 20's. I'd say the same thing we've seen in other skaters over the years also holds with V/M.

  2. #62
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    woa, very interesting interview! i'm loving their personalities more and more. they're real people! i love the mention about Scott and Charlie's friendship. guys are this way, mortal enemies on the ice, but loyal off it, and a lot of camerade. it works very differently for the ladiez.
    re: the nasty comments here and there, i can't wait for pani's return and then the real fight starts again ahahah!! i think we collected enough material for it at this point. enough to cover an entire off-season? yak yak!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    ETA: Someone else mentioned elsewhere that they thought V-M had reached their peak and could not improve any more. I find this interesting because it is something I read on Twitter a lot as well. Many even question if V-M have changed or improved at all since their senior debut, which I find...puzzling. Being a huge fan of the technical aspects of the sport, I wish we could do an element-by-element comparison between Valse Triste and Funny Face, with gifs and all. I want to do it, but I need help as I am not at all versed in gif-making and all that.
    Oh, that's utter bullshit. Sorry. Actually, the level of improvement between Worlds "Assassination Tango/Valse Triste" and SC "Russian Folk/Umbrellas" is scary awesome. Their speed, their projection...

    Element by element? Lifts are more secure, varied, intricate with better ice coverage. I'd say the same for the twizzles. Spins are basically at the same level, though I'd say Tessa's positions have improved. Steps are arguably the hardest to tell the difference.

    Basically, saying they didn't improve as much as other teams might be true, but only because they were so utterly good in the first place. It's a weakly passive-aggresive arguement to make and really does them no good. But hey, another way to look at it - as soon as they stepped on the world stage, they had the abilities of Olympic champions and multiple world medalists.

    I can grock with that.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    I want to know what they're smoking if they think that V/M haven't improved since their senior debut. IMO, they're better now than they were two years ago.
    I think people are confusing "V/M haven't improved" and "V/M haven't evolved in the direction I would have liked to see". They are two different things.

    They have definitely improved in the last two years, particularly in skating skills and maturity of expression.

  5. #65
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    I find V/M are almost victims of their own success. Their Mahler program was transcendant and it's like everybody is expecting something like that from them every year. Last year's programs were top notch as well. I guess this year's program just didn't draw people in. Personally I believe their Funny Face program has some beautiful moves and shows off their sophistication, but just has too many music cuts, which prevented me from becoming completely drawn into the program.

    There seems to be a double standard. I enjoyed D/W's FD this year, but had V/M chosen that music, I believe they would have been accused of playing it safe and being too traditional. Also, V/M are no longer seen as underdogs. Last year, they were the underdogs because of their injury, it seems that sometime this year, a switch has flipped and people have ganged up on them for being the favoured ones.

    I really wonder what Marina has in mind for them for the next Olympics. If they go for another romantic program, they'll be accused of doing the same thing again, but I do think they draw in the crowd with those kinds of programs.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    Basically, saying they didn't improve as much as other teams might be true, but only because they were so utterly good in the first place. It's a weakly passive-aggresive arguement to make and really does them no good. But hey, another way to look at it - as soon as they stepped on the world stage, they had the abilities of Olympic champions and multiple world medalists.

    I can grock with that.
    I think this is the crux of these ridiculous comments. Tessa and Scott have pretty much won every title imaginable and the improvements may not seem as obvious as the years pass.

    I think FF was a bit of a risk because it's not music everyone enjoys but it was done in the perfect year - halfway to the next OG and it allowed them to really put their performance skills to work. I'm really looking forward to the next two years.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    The universe needs them to skate to Sigur Ros' "Hoppipolla"
    Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I will cry happy man tears if this happens!!

    I was thinking what they should skate next season that is akin to Pink Floyd but not your generic contemporary/jazzed up popular music and couldn't think of anything until you said Sigur Ros. In fact I think Hoppipolla is so epic they should do it for Sochi LOL!!

    Marina said in one interview she's running out of ideas for them so someone send them the clip and hope they can take a cue from Weaver/Poje and get some solid suggestions from the fans!!

  8. #68
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    I definitely think they have improved - no question - but even if they didn't.... if they were better than the other teams then (as in the ones still competing, not Denkova/Staviyski, Dubreiul/Lauzon, etc) and are still better now.... then they should be on the top! The 5 teams that beat them in 2007 are all retired now, and IMO none of the teams who placed below them have improved to the point that they are now better than V&M. So it's just a silly argument all around.

    The whole "improving" thing has always bugged me, even for reality shows... when Emmit Smith won Dancing with the Stars, everyone said it was because "he had improved so much over the season" but IMO Mario Lopez was better from week 1 til the finale, dammit!!!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonata View Post
    There seems to be a double standard. I enjoyed D/W's FD this year, but had V/M chosen that music, I believe they would have been accused of playing it safe and being too traditional.
    True. And we know how great they are at waltzing.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I definitely think they have improved - no question - but even if they didn't.... if they were better than the other teams then (as in the ones still competing, not Denkova/Staviyski, Dubreiul/Lauzon, etc) and are still better now.... then they should be on the top! The 5 teams that beat them in 2007 are all retired now, and IMO none of the teams who placed below them have improved to the point that they are now better than V&M. So it's just a silly argument all around.

    The whole "improving" thing has always bugged me, even for reality shows... when Emmit Smith won Dancing with the Stars, everyone said it was because "he had improved so much over the season" but IMO Mario Lopez was better from week 1 til the finale, dammit!!!
    They are the best so it's natural that they are targeted. We fans should just take these digs as a form of compliment

  11. #71
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    I miss "I Want to Hold Your Hand"

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    "Ain't No Mountain" is one of my favorite songs ever. The program is still rough, and you can tell they're having to pay more attention to remembering the steps instead of performing, but I already sort of love this. I think it'll be fantastic once they've had a chance to get comfortable with it.

    I have mixed feelings on the dress. It's very appropriate for the time period that the song is from, but I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I don't hate it, but I don't love it either.
    How nice! It is always cool when your favourite skaters skate to your favourite music.
    ...hmmmm, you did say you would leave some suggestions on Scott's FB page....are you responsible for their music selection?

    I have wanted Tessa and Scott to D-I-S-C-O for the last couple of years, and when I saw their Latin FD last year, I was even more convinced that it would be perfect for them, as much of disco is infused with influences from many Latin dances and takes as its basis a lot of those concepts of movement. I am so excited with this choice of program, and can't wait to see it after they have had a chance to really practice it. I love how they incorporate some of the classic moves like the scissors, revolving hands, the hip bump--really captures the disco era and shows off their range of motion. I would love to see them take it even further and do the hustle! This team can dance.

    And I am loving the dress!

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    Oh, that's utter bullshit. Sorry. Actually, the level of improvement between Worlds "Assassination Tango/Valse Triste" and SC "Russian Folk/Umbrellas" is scary awesome. Their speed, their projection...

    Element by element? Lifts are more secure, varied, intricate with better ice coverage. I'd say the same for the twizzles. Spins are basically at the same level, though I'd say Tessa's positions have improved. Steps are arguably the hardest to tell the difference.

    Basically, saying they didn't improve as much as other teams might be true, but only because they were so utterly good in the first place. It's a weakly passive-aggresive arguement to make and really does them no good. But hey, another way to look at it - as soon as they stepped on the world stage, they had the abilities of Olympic champions and multiple world medalists.

    I can grock with that.
    ITA. Not only do I find the claim that they haven't improved at all highly inaccurate, I also find it more than a touch disrespectful. I can't think of a single skater or team of skaters who hasn't/haven't improved since their first year on the senior circuit. The notion that Tessa and Scott have completely stagnated is dismissive of all their hard work and commitment. I know we will all see and be drawn to different things in skating, but it seems clear as day to me that they have improved a lot over the years (and undoubtedly would have improved even more if they hadn't lost so much time, and I imagine some confidence, to injury).

    Just to expand on some of the improvements you listed with some things I noticed:

    -big improvement in their lifts between 2006/2007 and 2007/2008 seasons: increased awareness of their centres of gravity and centre point of balance, as they learned to shift their weight and manage torque, resulting in difficult lifts skated with power and great stability
    -twizzles became even faster between 2009/2010 and 2010/2011 seasons
    -more numerous and complex transitions in the 2008/2009 season (and they also upped the difficulty in their lifts)
    -throughout the years they have improved their edge quality (hard to notice because they have always had such strong technique), the amplitude of their patterns, and their power and have learned to project outwards

    I also have to say that they worked with more rhythmic variations after 2007/2008

    When I hear people saying that a skater or team has peaked and their time is over, I think of skaters like W&P. I remember reading in forums in 2009 that they had peaked, were too limited to ever really challenge for the top spots, and would soon be left in the dust by other teams...I'll bet those people were eating their words when they saw W&P this season, if not before. If a team is willing to put in the work and try new things (and all I have read and seen would indicate that Tessa and Scott are), who's to say they can't reach a new level in their skating? The sky's the limit!
    Last edited by Bournekraatzfan; 04-02-2012 at 09:53 AM.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    I miss "I Want to Hold Your Hand"
    YES

  15. #75
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    Their Gala programe was not a piece of music that I like BUT Tessa & Scott skate so well that I'm drawn into it.
    I ended up really enjoying it.
    I also LOVED her dress

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by PashaFan View Post
    YES
    No zzzz

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bournekraatzfan View Post
    ITA. Not only do I find the claim that they haven't improved at all highly inaccurate, I also find it more than a touch disrespectful.
    If V/M had stagnated since 2010, while D/W have consistently improved, then shouldn't D/W have left V/M in their dust long ago? Are these people suggesting V/M are only getting-by on politics? (people appear to love the drama of conspiracy theories )

    V/M and D/W have crossed paths four times in competition (not counting the V/M withdrawal, since it was inconclusive). Of those competitions, both have won two each. A testament that both couples appear to be evenly matched in their differing styles.



    P.S. I have noticed many people (on both sides) appear to have difficulty using IMO. If I were to edit copies of all these posts and insert IMO where required, it would become a full time job. (although perhaps people may begin to get the idea). Maybe someone can write a script to automatically insert IMO at the beginning of every sentence posted? j/k
    Last edited by rvi5; 04-02-2012 at 01:11 PM.

  18. #78

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    Proustable......what an awsome suggestion. I checked it out, and it's such an uplifting piece of music, I posted it on my "facebook". I will also post the link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXMA34CeoQ. I hope someone will suggest it to them.
    Addicted to FSU

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarie View Post
    Proustable......what an awsome suggestion. I checked it out, and it's such an uplifting piece of music, I posted it on my "facebook". I will also post the link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmXMA34CeoQ. I hope someone will suggest it to them.
    Oh yes universe please. Someone, everyone, suggest this to them..Please. Song ought to be perfect if they keep talking about the "twilight" of their careers (which is so weird to hear from a 22 and 24 year old kids).

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    Let's start a campaign and try to make sure they at least hear that beautiful piece of music ! I can only imagine what a magnificent dance they will have with it.

    Also, I find it too bad D/W fan are starting to make stuff up that even Tessa & Scott don't think they should have won to justify the lower score from D/W and gloss over the fact the the rivalry is really now all down to technical merits.

    Both teams trained to get level 4s. V/M are relieved that they did manage to get enough levels to win, and somehow to some D/W fans that came off as feeling undeserved... Anything to make them feel better I guess.

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