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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by magnolia View Post
    Judge's favorites are the skaters whose under-rotations and wrong edges aren't called as regularly as other skaters, those who may fall but somehow haven't, and whose pcs is always high regardless of the quality of the actual performance.
    Except that judges don't make edge calls or under rotation calls - that is the job of the tech panel.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  2. #42

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    Does anyone want to defend Pluschenko's transition scores? Anyone?

    I'm generally less concerned about some skaters being judges' favorites than I am about newer/less well known/unexpectedly good skaters not getting the PCS marks they deserve. At least, not until the second day of the competition. Almost to the point that I wish that the SP scores merely qualified you for the LP, and that you start from scratch at that point. Hopefully with a more appropriate PCS. (This would also have the benefit of putting real pressure on the LP once again.)

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    Your analysis of the Adam/Ross scenarios make no sense to me.

    Adam was 7th after the sp at 4CC. He barely missed the bronze. And his PCS should have been 5+ over Ross at Nats. I don't see the favoritism.
    Are you kidding? At 4CC, Adam's PCS were a fraction of a point lower than Ross's in the FS, and 7 points lower than the PCS he got for a FS of comparable quality he skated at nationals. Meanwhile Ross's PCS at 4CC were only 2 points below what he received for his FS at Nationals, again of comparable quality. If you have 2 skaters who are both getting 74 for PCS for a good but not spectacular FS performance internationally, and then at nationals one of them gets 76 while the other gets 81 for PCS, again for good but not spectacular FS performances, I'd say the one who gets a 7 point boost from his international PCS and a 5 point margin over a competitor who international judges have deemed his equal with their markings is definitely experiencing some nationals inflation/favoritism.

    It's the same deal for Jason Brown getting 75 for his PCS at nationals despite falling 3 times in the FS. Josh Farris's nationals FS was no more of a meltdown and was actually probably less of a meltdown than Jason's and he got 65 for PCS. Then they go to JW, both skate well and get virtually the same PCS of 71-72. So Jason gets a 3 point PCS boost over his clean FS at JW for a meltdown FS at nationals while Josh gets a 6 point PCS decrease over his great FS at JW for a nervy FS at nationals? That's favoritism right there, again between 2 skaters international judges have deemed of equal quality with their markings.

    Rippon and Brown are examples of USFS favorites who get big boosts in PCS at nationals. Miner and Farris are not USFS favorites and don't receive the same kind of PCS inflation at nationals. Looking at US nationals results/scores, you would assume that Rippon is superior to Miner and Brown is superior to Farris, while looking at international scores would suggest that Rippon and Miner are equal, and so are Brown and Farris.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    Judges' favouritism aside, I know you're right, but I find it riddiculous considering these girls (Lepisto in particular) don't even look pretty when they skate (by pretty I mean graceful of course, not appearance-wise). I absolutely hate the way Lepisto skates (skated? has she retired or sth?). My point is that I hate the fact CoP is favouring "blades across the ice" over actually doing eye-pleasing things on ice.

    Also, blades matter, but jumps should matter too. I mean, this particular case was a double jump fest from Lepisto. I get she might have nice edges, but for crying out loud, you have to actually be able to land some triples to be a worthy world medalist. At least in my book.
    Did you actually watch Lepistö's programs? Or anyone else's?

    Lepistö was one of only four women to land three fully rotated triple jumps in the Short Program (the others being Makarova, Hecken, and Glebova). It's true she did only three triples in the Free Skate, but she got positive GOE on every element in the program, which is more than can be said of four of the five skaters who finished ahead of her in that segment.

    And if you absolutely hate the way she skated here, maybe you should stop watching figure skating and start watching some other sport like rhythmic gymnastics. Most fans of figure skating would call it "eye-pleasing."

    Lastly, why do you refer to women in their twenties as "girls"? Whether you intend it to be or not, it's very demeaning.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Also, with respect to 2008, much of the booing was due to fans' perception that the fourth-place finisher, Yukari Nagano, had landed a triple axel in the Free Skate. The jump was marked as underrotated.
    Rewriting history. Nakano's skate was a lot more than the triple axel. Her program was arguably the only ladies lp that competition that was more than the sum of its parts.

    As for the axel, highly knowledgeable commentators in real time think the jump is clean (Peggy Fleming, the English Eurosport guys) then the kind of major penalty she got for 'underrotating' is dumb and shortsighted.

    Portraying spectator displeasure as ignorant fans is plain disrespectful.

    And Kostner may be fast as the dickens but I hate her posture (and tendency so stumble around awkwardly).

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    the way she skated here,
    Thank you for that link.
    I found a youtube version where the 1-2 second delay in the audio is sync'd up correctly:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZI1hK9cqoM
    (the difference in the audio is obvious when you see/hear her 3Lo landing and the music in each version)

    I just love the way she landed the 3Lo exactly, perfectly to the "crash of the music",
    and the instant acceleration of her rotation speed in the last 1/3 of her first spin, among other things.
    She was selling that SP from beginning to end.


    -

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    And Kostner may be fast as the dickens but I hate her posture (and tendency so stumble around awkwardly).
    Which doesn't mean that she has bad posture - it's only your personal perception. I, for instance, don't hate her posture - as, I am sure, many other people. In my personal opinion, she is really elegant - in a different way from many others. But that is a part of what makes her Carolina Kostner.

    "Stumbling around" ? I do remember a couple of stumbles, but it's very far from chronic stumbling around. Other skaters stumble from time to time as well. Ice is slippery, as we know - even for skaters. So, that can't be described as some specific trait of hers.

    So, one more example of biased - only this time not from a judge .

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    "Stumbling around" ? I do remember a couple of stumbles, but it's very far from chronic stumbling around. Other skaters stumble from time to time as well. Ice is slippery, as we know - even for skaters. So, that can't be described as some specific trait of hers.
    It can happen to the best of them. Makes us recreational skaters feel quite normal.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Did you actually watch Lepistö's programs? Or anyone else's?

    Lepistö was one of only four women to land three fully rotated triple jumps in the Short Program (the others being Makarova, Hecken, and Glebova). It's true she did only three triples in the Free Skate, but she got positive GOE on every element in the program, which is more than can be said of four of the five skaters who finished ahead of her in that segment.
    Laura Lepisto shouldn't have won the bronze in 2010...She did well in the short (even if she had some mistakes) but the free was a disaster...not in terms of cleaness but in terms of technical content...only three triple jumps and two of them were toeloop..I was in the arena and we were like: uh?
    She was ahead in the short but the overall score wasn' a point from the fourth one (Miki Ando) and Miki deserved the medal for how she skated IMO

    Then again, it easy to skate clean and have positive GOES if you're doing only double jumps...

  10. #50
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    I think the way Kostner skates is part of her charm. Sometimes she looks like she is making it up as she goes (I like that).
    Lepisto winning Bronze in 2010 still makes me cross. I like Lepisto & think she is very nice to watch but I watched the top four the other day & she fell apart yet Miki skated clean. It was a bad decision IMO.
    On the subject of Plushenko being judges favourite, I have watched him since the very start of his career & being a Yagudin fan I guess in the the early day's I was quite upset when the judges held him up.
    Year's later I can now watch him & understand what an amazing talent he is.
    BUT the BIG problem I have with Plushenko is how he treats ISU skating.
    He is like an unfaithful husband who goes off & has affairs with other women (Skating shows, media) then when he get's bored or wants to raise his profile again (In case we forget him) he returns. Skates okay, wins (Comes back to the loyal wife) then leaves again.
    Plushenko needs skating, skating does not need Plushenko.
    I WANT A DIVORCE

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by PashaFan View Post
    Lepisto winning Bronze in 2010 still makes me cross. I like Lepisto & think she is very nice to watch but I watched the top four the other day & she fell apart yet Miki skated clean. It was a bad decision IMO.
    Miki was ahead by 7.72 points in the free skate (and 9.40 points on the technical mark), but she was very lackluster in the SP and was in 11th place following that segment, while Lepisto was 3rd. Between the two programs I don't feel like anyone made a great case for bronze, and Lepisto did just barely enough to hold on based on the SP, by placing 6th in the FS. The results were very, very close overall and certainly debatable.

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2010/index.htm

  12. #52
    Mad for mangelwurzels
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    Quote Originally Posted by PashaFan View Post
    I like Lepisto & think she is very nice to watch but I watched the top four the other day & she fell apart yet Miki skated clean. It was a bad decision IMO.
    I love Miki but she made a hash of her SP and finished 11th. That's why she couldn't catch Lepisto in the FS, despite skating clean.

    ETA: RFOS got in before me.
    I hear outside a million panicking birds, and know even out there comfort is done with; it has shattered even the stars, this creature at last come home to me.

  13. #53
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    I agree about Miki in the short programe but if you put both the short & free of Miki & Laura back to back I think Miki just edged it.
    I also don't think Kim was as close to Mao as the judges showed.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    It's true she did only three triples in the Free Skate, but she got positive GOE on every element in the program, which is more than can be said of four of the five skaters who finished ahead of her in that segment.
    isn't it easier to get a positive GOE for a double jump than for a triple, though?

    And if you absolutely hate the way she skated here, maybe you should stop watching figure skating and start watching some other sport like rhythmic gymnastics. Most fans of figure skating would call it "eye-pleasing."
    This is quite offensive, really. Just because I don't like a particular skater's style doesn't mean I can't appreciate figure skating.
    The problem I have with Laura is actually in the commentary in this vid - "she's very straight back, her posture is very evident when you watch her skate" - well for me, too much. All I see watching her is this bloody straight back, which also makes her head go back in a strange way and her arm movements stiff and ugly. I agree she has good "blade across the ice" quality, but her upper body is a disaster.

    Lastly, why do you refer to women in their twenties as "girls"? Whether you intend it to be or not, it's very demeaning.
    are you serious?
    I'm in my twenties (almost exactly Lepisto's age actually) and I have no problem with people calling me a girl, so that's how I refer to people my age. I'm pretty sure Carolina and Laura wouldn't mind, so don't make such a big deal out of it.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by PashaFan View Post
    He is like an unfaithful husband who goes off & has affairs with other women (Skating shows, media) then when he get's bored or wants to raise his profile again (In case we forget him) he returns. Skates okay, wins (Comes back to the loyal wife) then leaves again.
    Plushenko needs skating, skating does not need Plushenko.
    I WANT A DIVORCE
    OMG!!!! Plushy has an affair with his own wife? And with Marton and Dima Bilan too?

  16. #56
    Wandering Goy
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    OMG!!!! Plushy has an affair with his own wife? And with Marton and Dima Bilan too?
    Should we get him together in an explosion-protected room with Morosov and see if they might cancel each other out like matter and anti-matter?
    "Skating fans are not a patient bunch." Dragonlady

  17. #57
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    Judge's Darlings

    Kwan. Period.

    Oh, and Chan, Lysacek, Plushenko ...

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by PashaFan View Post
    I also don't think Kim was as close to Mao as the judges showed.
    Totally agree. Mao should have won the LP by a huge margin! There's no way that Kim should have won the free with that sloppy skate she delivered...I always though she was judges little girl..

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    quality of blades moving across ice? Judges love that
    But does it go too far when judges apparently love/reward butts sliding across the ice?

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLucky View Post
    But does it go too far when judges apparently love/reward butts sliding across the ice?
    Butts sliding across the ice are never rewarded. They are penalized with a 1 point deduction, and a required negative GOE for the element (if they occur on an element).

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