Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 82
  1. #41
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    3,642
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    The whole system is a crap shoot, Dornbush had a better fall season than Mahbanoozadeh and beat him in the FS at nationals so they decided to forgive him the SP bomb there and make him 1st alternate for 4CC. They also made a gamble sending 16th place finisher Farris to JW and he ended up winning silver, placing ahead of 9th place nationals finisher Brown, with a huge score, and came super close to winning the title. In that situation, the gamble paid off, you could have said Warren was more "deserving" of the spot based on the way he skated at Nats, but no way would he have come in 2nd in that field had he been sent. Ricky skating well will beat Armin skating well internationally, USFS knows that, so they sent him. They probably thought his SP at nats was a fluke, turns out he was actually in a bit of a rut, so while it sucks for Armin, his GOOD performances at nats probably seemed like a fluke because he was so lackluster on the GP. What it comes down to is, none of the other US men, if skating clean, can top a clean Abbott in international competition, and of the US ladies, the only ones who, if skating clean, can top a clean Alissa in international competition are Ashley, who is already going to Worlds, and Mirai, who was not solid at nationals and has been off her game a bit this whole season. So they might as well send Jeremy and Alissa to Worlds, if they bomb there, the USFS will take note and I'm sure invest more attention in younger skaters with more potential for the future coming up through the ranks next season.
    I don't think Ashley would beat Alissa internationally if both skated clean. In fact Mirai would probably beat Ashley if both skated clean as we've seen when Mirai actually does put it all together the judges do usually reward her too.

  2. #42

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    1,130
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by manleywoman View Post
    I'm wondering why ANY of the top skaters would have done this event so close to Worlds.
    I wondered the same - even after Kostner's strong skate.

    What's the rationale behind having top skaters peak twice in 3 weeks?

    In years past, when some National championships, Grand Prix Finals, plus Europeans were all scheduled in January-February, skaters, coaches and fans noticed a weariness creeping in by the time World came around in March. Isn't this the reason that GPF is now in December?

  3. #43

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Skateland
    Posts
    7,817
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    I don't think Ashley would beat Alissa internationally if both skated clean. In fact Mirai would probably beat Ashley if both skated clean .....
    Not so sure about that. Ashley presents herself in a more confident manner (speed, facial expression, choreographic accents, etc.). There's more to PCS than some pretty, well-centered spins.
    Dick Button Historical Quote of the Month: "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!"

  4. #44

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Age
    38
    Posts
    17,217
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    I don't think Ashley would beat Alissa internationally if both skated clean. In fact Mirai would probably beat Ashley if both skated clean as we've seen when Mirai actually does put it all together the judges do usually reward her too.
    Not when Mirai pulls that emotionless zombie act that she's been doing lately. (I still can't get used to seeing that from her. She used to be such a fun skater.)
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club

  5. #45
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    3,404
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I think in the case of Carolina Kostner, it was a good idea to test out the new jump layout for the LP at least once before Worlds, since she's dropping a more dependable easier element for a more difficult element that is getting better in consistency as the season progresses.

  6. #46
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    3,642
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    Not when Mirai pulls that emotionless zombie act that she's been doing lately. (I still can't get used to seeing that from her. She used to be such a fun skater.)
    I meant when Mirai skates like she's capable such as at 4CC last year when she skated with some passion and emotion. Not the Mirai this year that looks like she belongs in a zombie movie with her emotionless skating.

  7. #47
    Title-less
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    8,703
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Anyway, I do think Jeremy needs a "down" competition, though perhaps not quite far down in the TES. Anyway, anyone knows why he switched the flip and lutz? Made no sense to me at all

  8. #48
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,069
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    The best thing about this competition is to secure Kostner's position as gold favorite and to take pressure off Wagner from having the highest seasons best total score.

    But how come the ISU statistics are not updated? Are they not yet updated or does the competition not count for this?

    http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/...12/sbtslto.htm

  9. #49
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,770
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    Anyway, I do think Jeremy needs a "down" competition, though perhaps not quite far down in the TES. Anyway, anyone knows why he switched the flip and lutz? Made no sense to me at all
    Adding a 3t to either of the 3lutzes late in the program has eluded him all season, so I'm guessing they were planning to make that first lutz a 3/3 and do it in the first half when he's less tired...just a guess though.

  10. #50
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    22
    Posts
    12,996
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    I don't think Ashley would beat Alissa internationally if both skated clean. In fact Mirai would probably beat Ashley if both skated clean as we've seen when Mirai actually does put it all together the judges do usually reward her too.
    Ashley at 4CCs scored higher than Alissa ever has internationally by a good margin (that is comparing to events like the GP final and Worlds last year which is as close to "clean" as Alissa will ever skate, period). Even if you think the score was inflated, there is no way it was as inflated as U.S Nationals would be and Ashley basically tied Czisny's score from her own Nationals last year, which was truly her best competition ever. Not to mention she is the one who is U.S Champion and reigning 4CCs Champion now, while Alissa is neither U.S Champion or reigning GP final Champion anymore. I am pretty sure Ashley would come out ahead right now, even if both skated well. Before Nationals I would have agreed with you, but things are not the same anymore.

    As for Mirai her stock has definitely dropped, she has to turn in a few solid competitions in a row to build it back up. Not to mention have better programs skated with more attack and oomph, even if she skates cleanly. Mirai skating the best performances of her life by far came a distant 4th at the Olympics, and would have been below Rachel Flatt of all people without her 2 downgrades, Lepisto without her 2 doubled jumps, and Ando if she skated just slightly less abysmal, so lets not pretend the judges will immediately go goo ga over a clean Mirai to the point other Americans could never compete, let alone the reigning U.S Champion and 4CC Champion.

    Until proven otherwise all three of them are still only second tier contenders at the World level at best, until one of them actually medals at a Worlds. None at their best is much better than the other two, but Ashley who is by far skating the best of the trio right now and has the judges momentum and recent titles behind her, definitely has the edge at the moment, even if all 3 magically competed the next day and skated very well.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 03-14-2012 at 04:32 AM.

  11. #51

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Deep in a Dream
    Posts
    7,462
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    8216
    Thanks for setting us all straight. Whatever would we do without you?
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  12. #52
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,259
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by manleywoman View Post
    I'm wondering why ANY of the top skaters would have done this event so close to Worlds.
    I'm wondering why the ISU would let anyone schedule an event like this so close to Worlds.

    Yes, it probably would have been smarter to send the folks who just missed the World team, but I wonder if it would have been seen as a bit of an insult to the Dutch organizers to send less than our best. Maybe the USFS gained some "you scratch my back..." points for this. Are there Dutch judges on any of the panels at Worlds?

    So, maybe the USFS figured neither of these skaters ever does much of anything at Worlds anyway, so burning them here isn't really much of a price to pay. Heck, maybe going into Worlds with such a good excuse for failure will actually take the pressure off and they will skate well. We'll see.

  13. #53
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    556
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    (deleted, nevermind)
    Last edited by geod2; 03-14-2012 at 09:04 AM.

  14. #54
    I <3 Kozuka
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Vancouver/Seattle
    Posts
    18,229
    vCash
    730
    Rep Power
    19676
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post

    But how come the ISU statistics are not updated? Are they not yet updated or does the competition not count for this?

    http://www.isuresults.com/isujsstat/...12/sbtslto.htm
    For the ISU Season's Best list, only scores from GP's (Jr. and Sr.) including the final, the Olympic qualifying competition and the Olympics (N/A this season and next), Youth Olympic Games (this season) and Jr. and Sr. championships count.

    Senior B's count for World Standings/Ranking points and for the minimum TES qualifying scores for championships. A few that are held before GP season ends and are listed in the GP Announcement also count towards meeting the GP minimums.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  15. #55

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    136
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I'm wondering why the ISU would let anyone schedule an event like this so close to Worlds.

    Yes, it probably would have been smarter to send the folks who just missed the World team, but I wonder if it would have been seen as a bit of an insult to the Dutch organizers to send less than our best. Maybe the USFS gained some "you scratch my back..." points for this. Are there Dutch judges on any of the panels at Worlds?

    So, maybe the USFS figured neither of these skaters ever does much of anything at Worlds anyway, so burning them here isn't really much of a price to pay. Heck, maybe going into Worlds with such a good excuse for failure will actually take the pressure off and they will skate well. We'll see.
    Those eville Dutch! And here I was thinking that this was one of many small competitions in Europe featuring mainly second-tier skaters that usually get bypassed by the big names and are unknown to most fans.

    Caro, Alissa, etc, chose to skate here in preparation for worlds. Was it a good idea? We'll see come worlds. But these conspiracy theories are just silly.

  16. #56
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Helsinki, Finland
    Posts
    3,862
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    It´s difficult to decide, whether it was a mistake or not to send these two skaters to Challenge Cup... On the other hand to participate in a competition is good, but on the other hand one loses training time while travelling and being in a competition, especially if the event is in another continent and Worlds event is very close. And in Challenge Cup their skating was not so good, but anyway better to have bad performances in Netherland rather than in Nice.... Or will their bad luck continue? Hopefully not!!!

    USA has several good skaters in men and ladies and therefore really needs to get three World spots in those disciplines again, especially as the Olympics are approaching. So much pressure on the shoulders of the participants, no wonder if the known "headcases" break.
    Last edited by Jaana; 03-14-2012 at 11:27 AM.

  17. #57

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,383
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I'm wondering why the ISU would let anyone schedule an event like this so close to Worlds.
    Three weeks before Worlds isn't that close, and it's great timing for skaters in need of a tuneup, those looking to try some new elements without the pressure of Worlds, or people in need of ranking points or an ISU minimum score.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenifer View Post
    Caro, Alissa, etc, chose to skate here in preparation for worlds. Was it a good idea? We'll see come worlds. But these conspiracy theories are just silly.
    Exactly.

  18. #58
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    10,425
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    or people in need of ranking points or an ISU minimum score.
    This especially. Didn't at least one skater QUALIFY for world's by getting a minimum score here?

  19. #59
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    3,642
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Ashley at 4CCs scored higher than Alissa ever has internationally by a good margin (that is comparing to events like the GP final and Worlds last year which is as close to "clean" as Alissa will ever skate, period). Even if you think the score was inflated, there is no way it was as inflated as U.S Nationals would be and Ashley basically tied Czisny's score from her own Nationals last year, which was truly her best competition ever. Not to mention she is the one who is U.S Champion and reigning 4CCs Champion now, while Alissa is neither U.S Champion or reigning GP final Champion anymore. I am pretty sure Ashley would come out ahead right now, even if both skated well. Before Nationals I would have agreed with you, but things are not the same anymore.

    As for Mirai her stock has definitely dropped, she has to turn in a few solid competitions in a row to build it back up. Not to mention have better programs skated with more attack and oomph, even if she skates cleanly. Mirai skating the best performances of her life by far came a distant 4th at the Olympics, and would have been below Rachel Flatt of all people without her 2 downgrades, Lepisto without her 2 doubled jumps, and Ando if she skated just slightly less abysmal, so lets not pretend the judges will immediately go goo ga over a clean Mirai to the point other Americans could never compete, let alone the reigning U.S Champion and 4CC Champion.

    Until proven otherwise all three of them are still only second tier contenders at the World level at best, until one of them actually medals at a Worlds. None at their best is much better than the other two, but Ashley who is by far skating the best of the trio right now and has the judges momentum and recent titles behind her, definitely has the edge at the moment, even if all 3 magically competed the next day and skated very well.
    You make it seem like Mirai was lucky to have finished 4th at the Olympics. It would have been a travesty if Rachael had finished ahead of Mrai in Vancouver. As for Ando and Lepisto she beat those two girls fair and square. In fact Mirai's performance would have gotten her a medal in most any other Winter Olympics in the last 20 years or so but she picked the wrong Olympics to skate so well since everyone in the last group skated great.

  20. #60
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    672
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    i dont know, from what i saw,
    alissa didn't fight.
    for me what came out both her and her coach was still thinking about past 0--4cc.

    it seems if they focused more on challenge instead of bringing up past she might have done better, but than i always thought of alissa as more of a front end skater (beginning season) than ending season skater.
    in other words she skated better in beginning than at end.

    i think alissa has to focus more on end than she does /want to. in my opinion.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •