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  1. #1

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    Was It A Mistake To Send Czisny & Abbott to the Challenge Cup?

    A number of tweets from Phil Hersh. They read:-

    Maybe if the USFS had let Czisny go to 4CC instead of dragging over to Europe she would hit worlds with more confidence...3 falls in this weekend's Challenge Cup (1 Sp, 2 LP) for Alissa Czisny….now she flies home, then back to France for worlds...USFS picked Czisny for world team…no ifs, and, buts. Love to see the lawsuit if they try to replace her now…unless she is injured...Back to Czisny: this may have been worse performance than her disaster at 2010 nats: 0 clean triple jumps, 2 DBL axels turned into singles....Of course, 3-time and reigning US champ Jeremy Abbott wasn't very good either in Dutch event, falling twice in SP....If Czisny and Abbott have a bad worlds and keep US from gaining back 3d men's/women's place, this Dutch jaunt must be questioned….Why did USFS send Abbott & Czisny? Why did they go? 2 trips to Europe in 3 weeks (France for worlds) is no picnic even for 20 somethings
    So, was it a mistake to send Czisny & Abbott to the Challenge Cup?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    A number of tweets from Phil Hersh. They read:-



    So, was it a mistake to send Czisny & Abbott to the Challenge Cup?
    Post deleted--I thought he was saying it was a mistake to put Alissa and Jeremy on the Worlds team!
    Last edited by giselle23; 03-12-2012 at 03:40 AM.

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    I'm wondering why ANY of the top skaters would have done this event so close to Worlds.
    In my spare time, I like to interview figure skating legends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    A number of tweets from Phil Hersh. They read:-

    So, was it a mistake to send Czisny & Abbott to the Challenge Cup?
    Unless the USFSA forced Alissa/Abbott to go to Challenge Cup, seems to me their team deserves some of the responsibility.

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    I think this can be a good event for these two headcases IF the USFS let them stay in Europe until Worlds. It's the travelling that's the main issue, not the closeness to Worlds.

    I mean, if Czisny beat Kostner and Abbott beat Joubert here, no one would question this assignment for them.

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    I don't think results are a fair way to determine if it was a mistake to send skaters to an event. Somehow, if they do well at Worlds, I don't think that Hersh will claim it is because they got fired up by what happened here, although this decision will be to blame if they do badly.

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    I am not so sure that i agree with putting Alissa and Jeremy in the same bag. Jeremy has been excellent in the SP all season. That free skate, i just dont like. Its way too...how can i say it? looks like he smoked one before he choreographed it. LOL. No seriously, he's just not there yet to pull off something so "deep" and introspective. Its quite a depressing overly i'm way artsy fartsy ish. Thats just me. Anyway, I think this season for him has been good overall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    I think this can be a good event for these two headcases IF the USFS let them stay in Europe until Worlds. It's the travelling that's the main issue, not the closeness to Worlds.
    The reasons are well-known why they cannot stay in Europe until Worlds even though the USFSA would "let" them.
    And given the results for Alissa, it wasn't a good event whether they stay in Europe or not.

    I do hope that Team Czisny will exercise good judgement and arrive a day or two earlier than normal for Worlds.
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by geod2 View Post
    The reasons are well-known why they cannot stay in Europe until Worlds even though the USFSA would "let" them.
    And given the results for Alissa, it wasn't a good event whether they stay in Europe or not.

    I do hope that Team Czisny will exercise good judgement and arrive a day or two earlier than normal for Worlds.
    .
    Not by me. Care to elaborate?
    Touching the void.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primorskaya View Post
    Not by me. Care to elaborate?
    I think Alissa said it would be too expensive to stay and train in Europe during the interim period, and anyway she prefers to train at home in Detroit. She also said the traveling back and forth wasn't a big deal as it was "only Europe." Not sure if this is the "well known" reason geod mentioned, but it's what I had heard/read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    I think Alissa said it would be too expensive to stay and train in Europe during the interim period, and anyway she prefers to train at home in Detroit. She also said the traveling back and forth wasn't a big deal as it was "only Europe." Not sure if this is the "well known" reason geod mentioned, but it's what I had heard/read.
    Those reasons and Jason needed to return to his other skaters that he coaches. I can't recall where I read it....maybe the same place you did.
    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Unless the USFSA forced Alissa/Abbott to go to Challenge Cup, seems to me their team deserves some of the responsibility.
    Czisny and Abbott wanted to go to Challenge Cup IIRC, USFS did not "make" either of them though. Jeremy was still ailing at the time of 4CC and Alissa was not selected to skate there, so this seemed like a good alternative for the both of them in that it gave 1.) Jeremy more time to heald and 2.) Alissa (well and Jeremy) a chance to compete before Worlds. If one or both of them are injured I'd rather know now so they can be replaced then at Worlds if injuries cause them to bomb and cost us 3 spots. So yeah. USFS is not to blame.

    Anyways I'm not that worried, Jeremy did not skate well here, but his score is still Miner's SB score, so replacing him (unless he's injured) does not make much sense. His PCS are holding him up when the jumps don't work out so well, and if his jumps work better at Worlds, he will do quite well. Ross has been consistent this season, but if he skates well, he scores what Jeremy got here or maybe a little higher, if he is a little off, then he'll likely score lower than Jeremy did here in which case we'd be better off sending Jeremy (unless he's still injured).

    As for Alissa, her PCS won't hold her up when she makes that many mistakes, and they also drop more with her mistakes than Abbott's, but anyways, first alternate is Zaawadzki - not Gold, Zhang, or Nagasu, and well we've seen how Agnes usually skates in her FS this season, at one of her GPs the score was lower than Alissa's bomb here, and even her SB is only 104, which Alissa can manage with a sub-par skate for her (just not a complete bomb like here), so idk how smart replacing her is, unless she's injured. If Alissa happens to skate well, there's a very good chance for 3 spots next year, if she doesn't skate well, I'm not convinced Agnes would score much higher/if at all. So might as well send Alissa because at least if she skates well she has a chance at a medal, which Zawadzki realistically doesn't.

    The way I see it, Jeremy could place like, anywhere from 2nd-12th at Worlds. Ross realistically would probably score from 6th-12th, maybe even more like 8th-15th, so Jeremy is the bigger gamble but there's a chance he gets a much better placement. The same goes for Alissa, 2nd-15th is her range for Worlds. Zawadzki would be like 6th-15th realistically, so again Alissa is the bigger gamble but with the chance for better results.
    Last edited by pinky166; 03-12-2012 at 11:02 AM.

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    Simple answer to the question at the title of this thread: YES, IT WAS, especially Czisny. A manouvre almost as 'brilliant' as sending 13th-place Nationals-placer Ricky Dornbusch to 4Cs instead of Armin M.

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    I don't see how it could be a mistake. For Alissa, I pray this was an opportunity to get that catastrophic skate out of her system so it doesn't show up at worlds. For all of the mental toughness they claim she's gained in the last two seasons (I'm not convinced yet), this is the perfect example of taking what was done here (at Challenge Cup) and making corrections so it doesn't happen at worlds.

    I don't know why Phil's got his panties in a bunch over this whole 4CC vs Challenge Cup deal. I think Alissa needed this event. Despite her results she's been "off" all season. She hasn't had a repeat performance of her victories at the GPF or 2011 nationals this year--where she's had a clean SP and clean LP back to back. She's struggled in one or both segments at every competition she's entered. The difference was she hasn't been giving up...until this competition. Those two falls back to back...you could tell she was about ready to leave the ice right then, especially after that hard fall on her loop. She was completely lost in the air on a lot of those jumps which makes me think her problems were more mental than physical at this competition.

    I really hope she pulls herself together. It's so frustrating every year to have our team consist of one solid link and one weak link...PLEASE pull yourself together Alissa! We need her to place in the top 8. If Ashley skates as strong as she did at her last two competitions, I wouldn't be surprised to see her 4th or higher this year...

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    Having a 2 month gap in between competitions would have been too long...interesting that pre 4CC, there would have been only a 6 week gap between US Nationals and Worlds

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    I think maybe a way for Alissa to pull herself together would be to strip down her LP - nothing harder than a 3z and 3 jump combo. Repeat the jumps she's best at. This would be similar to Caro's strategy over the past year and a half, and look how well that worked out for her!

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    It sure seems like it may have been- but it depends on the athlete. If they took something away from this competition that will help them prepare for World's then it was not a mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    I think maybe a way for Alissa to pull herself together would be to strip down her LP - nothing harder than a 3z and 3 jump combo. Repeat the jumps she's best at. This would be similar to Caro's strategy over the past year and a half, and look how well that worked out for her!
    Indeed. Caro made the Worlds podium last year, even with the watered-down content, because Caro's PSC scores (basic skating quality) are so high. Alissa is another 'high PSC lady.'

    I was re-watching my DVD of recent Nationals and noticed how, just before she takes her starting position for a program, Alissa practices her arm/hand positions for jumps; she does this in s-l-o-w motion whereas every other lady does this sort of thing quickly, with a snap motion. Doesn't this tell it all?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    I think Alissa said it would be too expensive to stay and train in Europe during the interim period, and anyway she prefers to train at home in Detroit.
    Actually, fans were discussing these points as possible reasons, not Alissa herself.

    She also said the traveling back and forth wasn't a big deal as it was "only Europe." Not sure if this is the "well known" reason geod mentioned, but it's what I had heard/read.
    Quote Originally Posted by geod2 View Post
    Those reasons and Jason needed to return to his other skaters that he coaches. I can't recall where I read it....maybe the same place you did.
    I think you two may be remembering what was posted/being discussed in the U.S. Ladies thread (posts #763-772) before Challenge Cup, along with an IN preview article excerpt I posted: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=81991&page=39

    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    It sure seems like it may have been- but it depends on the athlete. If they took something away from this competition that will help them prepare for World's then it was not a mistake.
    Well put! Only Abbott and Czisny and their coaches can really know the answer to this. And I'm sure we fans can -- and will -- debate this particular question again after Worlds.

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    ^^ I guess the reasons for Alissa returning to Detroit aren't so well known, then.

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