New Australian Pattern Tests

[AusTechSpec]

We can talk all we like about costs, ice availability etc but sit at a training session and objectively watch the skaters. The majority of the Australian skaters would get as much out of skating around in a public session as they do from a training session. Most skaters do not show any recognition that someone is paying for them to use the ice and they need to wake up and use the time responsibly. It's about to get more expensive with the introduction of the carbon tax next month.

Without results internationally there will be no public money given to skating. To get results they need to train overseas where real skaters use their ice time for training not socialising.

We also need to get over the idea that they get marked low because they are from Australia- it's because they don't skate as well as skaters from the top nations- it's like a dog chasing its tail- Australian Skaters don't train like top 10 skaters so they don't compete like top 10 skaters. Don't blame the judges- they often get it right. Internationals are now 95% guts and grind and 5% politicking.

You really have no idea what you're talking about...

[AusTechSpec]

I'm currently at Aussie Skate Free Skate 3, and have a flip and loop fully rotated (I just can't land them on one foot) so with the obvious view to my ISA tests, Coach and I started working on the Preliminary edges recently.

Coach also showed me the new Elementary patterns. We went right through them and did them all.

I think they're pretty good. The Elementary pattern didn't contain anything that I didn't already know how to do, it just requires a greater level of control and execution. I can do them all roughly, it's just a case of polishing them. So I don't think the pattern tests are demanding anything over the top.

I can see how these will benefit. For example, too many skaters learn the rough three-turns and then continue on with those without working to hone and refine the turn. Guilty as charged over here - I have issues holding the back inside edge on the end of a forward outside three-turn, but for the Elementary patterns, holding that edge is paramount.

For the majority of the pattern tests I would agree that they suit the levels that skaters should be at those levels.

With one exception. I think the novice level tests exceeded not only the current abilities of our top Australian novices, but would have also been to impassable for majority of novice level skaters in top skating countries as well.
In particular novice pattern 4.

I attended a camp in Australia with the aim of teaching the patterns to skaters, as well as a seminar for judges in which the top skaters from the first camp demonstrated the patterns for the judges.
I was also present for the filming of the pattern test dvd as an advisor.

Based on this, not only our novices but many of our junior and senior skaters would not have passed the novice test, where as the majority were capable of passing the junior and senior moves. Lochran Doherty, Australia's junior world representative ice dancer was woeful at the novice patterns, how could you expect novice level skaters to pass when a senior dancer was practically falling on his face.
Queensland had several senior level singles skaters present at one seminar who managed a passing standard after almost an hour of critique, where as they were mastering the senior patterns in near 5 mins in one case.

Obviously these tests are relatively new, however I would hope that there is some on going evaluation and trial/error process planned to continue to improve these tests.

All in all however, the pattern tests can only be a positive for Australian skating.....

[overedge]

Adult skaters are allowed on the sessions with the actual athletes?

So adult skaters aren't actual athletes???

Many of the adult skaters on this board, including myself, have skated on sessions with national/international skaters without any problems whatsoever. It works just fine as long as everyone (and that includes the elite skaters) is respectful of everyone else on the ice, and gets out of other people's way when it's their turn.

[sk8er1964]

AusTechSpec, I suggest that you learn more about adult skating so you won't make such ignorant comments. Here's a great place to start (there's plenty of stuff on You Tube):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTC9OYzE1AU

ETA: Here's Charlie Tickner's take on adult figure skating (I assume you've heard of him, right?)

http://www.manleywoman.com/episode-27-charlie-tickner/

On why he likes coaching adults: When I teach, I don’t feel it’s my job to put your skates on you, or push you out the door or get you on the ice. You have to want to do it. And the thing that I noticed the first time I came to Adult Nationals, it’s just that. Most people are here to get a medal, but it’s not that important. They want to skate well and have fun. And you don’t see that with the kids. In Lake Placid, I think when I first came in I saw a lady on the ice, and when she got off she hugged the next skater, sincerely, and then sat right down and applauded all the way through the program. That was very healthy to see that. You guys skate because you want to skate. And the social part is great. It’s just a different sport, different camaraderie. It’s a different animal and I really enjoy it. And there’s some phenomenal skating. I was watching the championship ladies practice this morning, and there were some double axels out there that the girls at Nationals would be proud to have.

[Skittl1321]

Adult skaters are allowed on the sessions with the actual athletes? You have to be kidding....

I've been on the ice with elite skaters, and based on conversations with them, they are "in my way" more than I am in theirs. It is hard for me to adjust to multiple skaters going that fast, but they say we move so slowly it is easy for them to judge where we will be. Practicing waltz jumps next to someone doing a 3A is incredibly motivational.

Our senior men (and also the novice pair, when they were together) do generally get clear ice when they do program run throughs. It is rare for that level to be at our mall rink, so we all want to watch, and also make sure we aren't in their way when they need to be in specific places. For the pair, no one wanted to be the cause of a fall, so they got a lot of space for lifts.

"Actual" athletes is so condescending. Adults are actual athltes too. The word you were likely looking for is elite.

[Aussie Willy]

Adult skaters are allowed on the sessions with the actual athletes? You have to be kidding....

I thought this was the case for most of the figure or freestyle sessions around Australia. Where in Australia are the adults not allowed on those sessions?

Years ago at Oakleigh we would have lost the figure sessions if it hadn't been for the adult skaters turning up and supporting it because the "actual athletes" didn't have the numbers. In Victoria the adult skaters have been an integral part of the skating community and the figure skating economy.

[Oz_sk8ting_mum]

I thought this was the case for most of the figure or freestyle sessions around Australia. Where in Australia are the adults not allowed on those sessions?

Canterbury has mixed session, anyone can get on. It's becoming very dangerous for a number of reasons and not condusive to producing top level skaters

I should add its more the younger skaters and Aussie skate kids that don't or can't move and are not taking notice of what is going on around them!

[essence_of_soy]

"Actual" athletes is so condescending. Adults are actual athltes too. The word you were likely looking for is elite.

Australia's team at the recent ISU Adult Figure Skating Championships in Germany did brilliantly, too. I believe our team of 12 won six medals between them.

[can'tsk8]

"Lochran Doherty, Australia's junior world representative ice dancer was woeful at the novice patterns, how could you expect novice level skaters to pass when a senior dancer was practically falling on his face." quote from Austechspec


Without wanting to be nasty, is Lochran Doherty really a Senior Ice Dancer? having seen the results from Preliminary round of Jnr Worlds, where I think they placed last, it would appear he is not very experienced or is lacking in strong skating skills, so it would not be a surprise for him to struggle on a difficult pattern. Also looking at Aus Nationals results he skated Junior and another team won, wonder why the stronger team did not go to Jnr Worlds.

[Oz_sk8ting_mum]

Also looking at Aus Nationals results he skated Junior and another team won, wonder why the stronger team did not go to Jnr Worlds.

Matilda and Patrick are not age eligible (Matilda is to young) Such a shame really because they have been working really hard and have twice been to Russia to train. I'm actually wondering how the new age for men in Junior Ice dance will effect them, Hopefully it will not keep them out of international competition, that would be a shame!

[can'tsk8]

Matilda and Patrick are not age eligible (Matilda is to young)

Will they be age eligable this year, from the results they are clearly way better than Lochran and Hannah

[Aussie Willy]

"Lochran Doherty, Australia's junior world representative ice dancer was woeful at the novice patterns, how could you expect novice level skaters to pass when a senior dancer was practically falling on his face." quote from Austechspec


Without wanting to be nasty, is Lochran Doherty really a Senior Ice Dancer? having seen the results from Preliminary round of Jnr Worlds, where I think they placed last, it would appear he is not very experienced or is lacking in strong skating skills, so it would not be a surprise for him to struggle on a difficult pattern. Also looking at Aus Nationals results he skated Junior and another team won, wonder why the stronger team did not go to Jnr Worlds.

To qualify to skate at any level of dance in Australia, you need to pass the pattern dances for that level as listed in the ISA rulebook. Pass the test for Senior and you are a Senior ice dancer.

[AusTechSpec]

"Lochran Doherty, Australia's junior world representative ice dancer was woeful at the novice patterns, how could you expect novice level skaters to pass when a senior dancer was practically falling on his face." quote from Austechspec


Without wanting to be nasty, is Lochran Doherty really a Senior Ice Dancer? having seen the results from Preliminary round of Jnr Worlds, where I think they placed last, it would appear he is not very experienced or is lacking in strong skating skills, so it would not be a surprise for him to struggle on a difficult pattern. Also looking at Aus Nationals results he skated Junior and another team won, wonder why the stronger team did not go to Jnr Worlds.

I wonder that myself, I assume they probably didn't meet the age criteria.?
Also makes me wonder why they received scholarship money for what was clearly a last min slap together team, which have now broken up. Seemed like there were many much more worthy and dedicated skaters who could have been better off with the money....

[misskarne]

Adult skaters are allowed on the sessions with the actual athletes? You have to be kidding....

Wow. Ignorant, much?

I would much rather skate with the Primary-Senior skaters at my rink and they would rather have me than the younger Aussie Skaters. Adult skaters tend to have more of a sense of where they're going/where other people are going than younger kids.

It's driving my coach to distraction because I'm so hyper-aware of the more senior skaters and am forever jumping out of their way, even if I have right of way.

It's a good thing the Primary-Senior skaters at my rink have a better attitude than you. Respect begets respect. I respect the other skaters at my rink, I respect their right of way, and they respect me and my right of way.

[AusTechSpec]

AusTechSpec, I suggest that you learn more about adult skating so you won't make such ignorant comments.

Not one adult skater in Australia is an athlete, nor trains like an athlete. I have been to adult nationals and multiple other adult competitions. Every last one is a social competitor.. There was nothing ignorant about my comment, I know full well what the genre of Adult skating involves.

I've been on the ice with elite skaters, and based on conversations with them, they are "in my way" more than I am in theirs. It is hard for me to adjust to multiple skaters going that fast, but they say we move so slowly it is easy for them to judge where we will be.

"Actual" athletes is so condescending. Adults are actual athltes too. The word you were likely looking for is elite.

No the word is athlete.
It's not that I find adult skating as a bad thing.. It is a great way to keep people who are no longer athletically capable in the sport, which in sure anyone will agree is definitely needed in Australia.
However they should not be allowed on the same sessions as the competitive skaters...

Years ago at Oakleigh we would have lost the figure sessions if it hadn't been for the adult skaters turning up and supporting it because the "actual athletes" didn't have the numbers. In Victoria the adult skaters have been an integral part of the skating community and the figure skating economy.

That is great, as i said, having people stay in the sport is vital for the growth of the sport as a whole in Australia.
However we just don't have enough ice....

Canterbury has mixed session, anyone can get on. It's becoming very dangerous for a number of reasons and not condusive to producing top level skaters

I should add its more the younger skaters and Aussie skate kids that don't or can't move and are not taking notice of what is going on around them!

Absolutely, as the first person said, the fact that adult skaters are actually still moving makes them easier to dodge than the 5 skate school children playing tiggy in a lutz corner...

This is all moving off topic for an off hand comment, but what I want to get at is that I am not against adult skating, but it is a social sport, and therefore requires different training sessions from the elite.

[AusTechSpec]

Wow. Ignorant, much?

I would much rather skate with the Primary-Senior skaters at my rink and they would rather have me than the younger Aussie Skaters. Adult skaters tend to have more of a sense of where they're going/where other people are going than younger kids.

It's driving my coach to distraction because I'm so hyper-aware of the more senior skaters and am forever jumping out of their way, even if I have right of way.

It's a good thing the Primary-Senior skaters at my rink have a better attitude than you. Respect begets respect. I respect the other skaters at my rink, I respect their right of way, and they respect me and my right of way.

You are confusing my actual intent here, my own fault of course as i shouldn't have put it so bluntly.

But you don't have right of way over the primary to senior genre.. But you do have a right to the ice.
Environment helps everything in training, thats why you have rinks all over the world where the elite gather to train, because being around other high level helps you.
It is the same here, it provides no benefit to the skaters to have adults on their sessions, often it is detrimental as they unknowingly get in the way.

It works both ways though, adult skaters should have their own time slots. So they can train and skate with other adults. Adult skating is a social sport, and this would run with that concept.
Many rinks in the past have had a coffee skate program. A session twice a week specifically for adult skaters, often with a coach present in case anyone wants some tips.

Thoughts?

[sk8er1964]

No the word is athlete.
It's not that I find adult skating as a bad thing.. It is a great way to keep people who are no longer athletically capable in the sport, which in sure anyone will agree is definitely needed in Australia.
However they should not be allowed on the same sessions as the competitive skaters...

Definition of the word "athlete":

A person possessing the natural or acquired traits, such as strength, agility, and endurance, that are necessary for physical exercise or sports, especially those performed in competitive contexts.

I don't see any qualifiers about age in there.

[AusTechSpec]

Definition of the word "athlete":



I don't see any qualifiers about age in there.

Strength agility and endurance...

I can come up with perhaps two adult skaters in Australia...?

Adult is a division meant to be fun, it is not a serious competitive sport, it is not one that requires day after day training.
Many of our adult skaters performed equal or less to what our skateschoolers perform, skateschoolers who certainly don't have strength agility and endurance...

They aren't athletes... just like going to the gym to lift weights doesn't make one a weight lifter.

[overedge]

Adult is a division meant to be fun, it is not a serious competitive sport, it is not one that requires day after day training.
Many of our adult skaters performed equal or less to what our skateschoolers perform, skateschoolers who certainly don't have strength agility and endurance...

They aren't athletes... just like going to the gym to lift weights doesn't make one a weight lifter.

Could you be any more full of sh*t?

If you don't think adult skating "requires day after day training", then you know nothing about adult skating or what it involves. Just because the skaters are sociable with each other doesn't mean it's not a sport or it's not athletically demanding.

[misskarne]

You are confusing my actual intent here, my own fault of course as i shouldn't have put it so bluntly.

But you don't have right of way over the primary to senior genre.. But you do have a right to the ice.
Environment helps everything in training, thats why you have rinks all over the world where the elite gather to train, because being around other high level helps you.
It is the same here, it provides no benefit to the skaters to have adults on their sessions, often it is detrimental as they unknowingly get in the way.

It works both ways though, adult skaters should have their own time slots. So they can train and skate with other adults. Adult skating is a social sport, and this would run with that concept.
Many rinks in the past have had a coffee skate program. A session twice a week specifically for adult skaters, often with a coach present in case anyone wants some tips.

Thoughts?

If my music is playing and I'm in program, absolutely I have right of way, and the other skaters are very polite about it (most of the time). If their music is playing, absolutely they have right of way. Of course, if I'm setting up one of my piddling toeloops and I see one of the Juniors coming at me setting up a double Lutz, of course I will move! I do not have a deathwish!

If it is the week before Hollins/Wintersun/Championships/Nationals, I just don't go on those sessions. If that means I don't skate that day, so be it. Their practice is important, and I've seen how highly-strung people get. Better they have one less skater to worry about.

It's all fine and dandy for you to say "adult skaters should have their own timeslots", but what about at a rink where figure skating in general is lucky to get sufficient ice time?! And "coffee club skating"? Could you possibly be any more of a condescending twat?

Look pal, I am not going to the Olympics. I am not going to Worlds. I may not even ever make Adult Nationals. But I AM A FIGURE SKATER. I have goals. I test. I compete. I work my backside off on the ice. And I am not any less of a skater or a person simply because I did not have the opportunity or the money to start when I was five years old.