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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Could you be any more full of sh*t?

    If you don't think adult skating "requires day after day training", then you know nothing about adult skating or what it involves.
    No, you are fooling yourself if you think performing singles requires day after day training.

    As i said, I have seen on multiple occasions the standard of adults in Australia, I have many at my home rink, and have also attended adult nationals many times to watch the top of their abilities.
    With exception of a few ex skaters that have retained their triples, the rest are performing at a level that requires once a week practice, the same as skate schoolers...

    There is no argument on that, you do not need day by day training to perform singles and a level one sit spin.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    If my music is playing and I'm in program, absolutely I have right of way, and the other skaters are very polite about it (most of the time). If their music is playing, absolutely they have right of way. Of course, if I'm setting up one of my piddling toeloops and I see one of the Juniors coming at me setting up a double Lutz, of course I will move! I do not have a deathwish!

    If it is the week before Hollins/Wintersun/Championships/Nationals, I just don't go on those sessions. If that means I don't skate that day, so be it. Their practice is important, and I've seen how highly-strung people get. Better they have one less skater to worry about.

    It's all fine and dandy for you to say "adult skaters should have their own timeslots", but what about at a rink where figure skating in general is lucky to get sufficient ice time?! And "coffee club skating"? Could you possibly be any more of a condescending twat?

    Look pal, I am not going to the Olympics. I am not going to Worlds. I may not even ever make Adult Nationals. But I AM A FIGURE SKATER. I have goals. I test. I compete. I work my backside off on the ice. And I am not any less of a skater or a person simply because I did not have the opportunity or the money to start when I was five years old.
    I actually find this to be the most sensible approach.

    My talk about coffee skate was not meant to be Condescending. I was being serious, it is merely the name of a session they run at some of the Queensland and WA rinks. It is simply an adult only session, in at least one of these rinks I know the adults named it Coffee Skate themselves...

    Unfortunately, we don't have enough ice in many of our rinks and this is not a problem we can easily get around...

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by AusTechSpec View Post
    No, you are fooling yourself if you think performing singles requires day after day training.

    As i said, I have seen on multiple occasions the standard of adults in Australia, I have many at my home rink, and have also attended adult nationals many times to watch the top of their abilities.
    With exception of a few ex skaters that have retained their triples, the rest are performing at a level that requires once a week practice, the same as skate schoolers...

    There is no argument on that, you do not need day by day training to perform singles and a level one sit spin.
    So how do you think lower-level kid skaters do those things? By showing up once a week at the rink for 15 minutes?

    I don't care how many times you have seen adults skate, you obviously know next to nothing about how adults train or what adult skating requires. And your attitude is just about insulting as your pride in your lack of knowledge. If you are actually a technical specialist, I sincerely hope you are not being assigned to any adult competitions.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    So how do you think lower-level kid skaters do those things? By showing up once a week at the rink for 15 minutes?

    I don't care how many times you have seen adults skate, you obviously know next to nothing about how adults train or what adult skating requires. And your attitude is just about insulting as your pride in your lack of knowledge. If you are actually a technical specialist, I sincerely hope you are not being assigned to any adult competitions.
    YES, that is how the kids do those things.
    As a coach, you never tell skate schoolers to train more than twice a week.

    Any coach who is forcing that on a skate school level is doing it purely for the money....

    Almost half of the skate schoolers who enter the aussie skate comps learn their programs during aussie skate as part of the curriculum and perform them just off that alone...

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by AusTechSpec View Post
    You are confusing my actual intent here, my own fault of course as i shouldn't have put it so bluntly.

    But you don't have right of way over the primary to senior genre.. But you do have a right to the ice.
    Environment helps everything in training, thats why you have rinks all over the world where the elite gather to train, because being around other high level helps you.
    It is the same here, it provides no benefit to the skaters to have adults on their sessions, often it is detrimental as they unknowingly get in the way.

    It works both ways though, adult skaters should have their own time slots. So they can train and skate with other adults. Adult skating is a social sport, and this would run with that concept.
    Many rinks in the past have had a coffee skate program. A session twice a week specifically for adult skaters, often with a coach present in case anyone wants some tips.

    Thoughts?
    For someone who has only posted about 16 posts in all on FSU, you certainly have made some pretty patronising and disrespectful comments.

    As an adult skater myself, I certainly don't view myself as an athlete, but if I was training for a test (having worked through half of Novice dance), I think I would be fully entitled to participate in any figure session because that is where I am going to get the best training conditions to work on my test. And there are many adult skaters doing the same. Thus I pay for the session, I pay for coaching and I pay for the test. My money is worth the same as every other skater and I follow the same rules. And that includes when I pay money to clubs and associations to do competitions and tests.

    Recently test standards were set for adults who do plan to compete so they are going to have to go through the same as all those other skaters doing the tests. Maybe some of the adults may like to work through all those new tests to the senior patterns, because whilst they may not be able to get the same technical content to do the programs, they will be able to do the patterns and achieve something for themselves.

    There are certain things I do draw the line on when it comes to adults and I have had more than my fair share of issues with regards to adult skating. But to say that all adults should only be entitled to skate in coffee club, really is pretty offensive.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by AusTechSpec View Post
    Many rinks in the past have had a coffee skate program. A session twice a week specifically for adult skaters, often with a coach present in case anyone wants some tips.
    Coffee club sessions usually happen during the day, when most adults are at work. I don't see that many rinks would be prepared to offer adult skating sessions at times that when working adults are able to attend. Not everyone has flexible working hours.

    I'm happy to admit to being a recreational adult skater (in the sense that I don't test or compete), but that doesn't mean I don't want to improve my skills, and I definitely need more than one session a week to do that. I've done the oone session a week thing in the past and ended up giving up because I was frustrated that I wasn't able to get any better. Now that I can skate several times a week, and can see progress, I'm a much happier skater.
    The ancient Egyptians worshipped cats as gods, and the cats have never forgotten.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    For someone who has only posted about 16 posts in all on FSU, you certainly have made some pretty patronising and disrespectful comments.

    As an adult skater myself, I certainly don't view myself as an athlete, but if I was training for a test (having worked through half of Novice dance), I think I would be fully entitled to participate in any figure session because that is where I am going to get the best training conditions to work on my test. And there are many adult skaters doing the same. Thus I pay for the session, I pay for coaching and I pay for the test. My money is worth the same as every other skater and I follow the same rules. And that includes when I pay money to clubs and associations to do competitions and tests.

    Recently test standards were set for adults who do plan to compete so they are going to have to go through the same as all those other skaters doing the tests. Maybe some of the adults may like to work through all those new tests to the senior patterns, because whilst they may not be able to get the same technical content to do the programs, they will be able to do the patterns and achieve something for themselves.

    There are certain things I do draw the line on when it comes to adults and I have had more than my fair share of issues with regards to adult skating. But to say that all adults should only be entitled to skate in coffee club, really is pretty offensive.
    I'm sorry, my poor wording on that one. I would not intend to confine all adult skaters to only coffee skate.
    I agree with everything you say and am in full support of the new testing system.

    What I am saying is that adult and competitive skaters on the same Ice is a negative to both parties.
    Obviously there is little we can do to facilitate that in Australia with our limited ice availability however would no substituting one of your training sessions to a coffee skate session help you out more.

    It would give you clearer ice to train, often more affordable as well. Also puts you in a training session with other adult skaters.
    I am not saying you can never skate on the figure sessions, if you have the test requirements and have paid for it there is no one who can stop you... But a couple of sessions a week where we can split adults and competitive skaters apart is a good thing is it not?

    And I hardly think my post count on a figure skating forum affects my credibility here?

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny Hop View Post
    Coffee club sessions usually happen during the day, when most adults are at work. I don't see that many rinks would be prepared to offer adult skating sessions at times that when working adults are able to attend. Not everyone has flexible working hours.

    I'm happy to admit to being a recreational adult skater (in the sense that I don't test or compete), but that doesn't mean I don't want to improve my skills, and I definitely need more than one session a week to do that. I've done the oone session a week thing in the past and ended up giving up because I was frustrated that I wasn't able to get any better. Now that I can skate several times a week, and can see progress, I'm a much happier skater.
    I see your point about the poor timing of most adult skate sessions.

    My overall point is that adult and competitive skaters need their own ice, it works better for both parties. Unfortunately it is a pipe dream with limited ice time in Australia.

    I was merely proposing the <b>addition</B> of coffee skate sessions as a half way solution...

  9. #89
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    I understand where AustTech is coming from even though it was badly worded .. Senior and Junior level skaters should have their own Ice and they DO want to go to the Olympics or worlds, they NEED space and to be stoping half way through programs or constantly pull out of jumps because people are in the way (Kiddies or Adults or even primary level skaters) there is a kid at the rink my kids skate at who is primary level and I can't tell you the amount of accidents this kid has caused to the higher levels.

    We have far to many people on in the figure sessions and it's the High level skaters who really suffer.

    But the rinks need money to survive so the sessions are packed

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by AusTechSpec View Post
    I am not saying you can never skate on the figure sessions, if you have the test requirements and have paid for it there is no one who can stop you... But a couple of sessions a week where we can split adults and competitive skaters apart is a good thing is it not?

    And I hardly think my post count on a figure skating forum affects my credibility here?
    How naive are you? Do you really think the rinks are going to create separate sessions for adults and elite skaters? If you have any knowledge of how most rinks operate in Australia, then that will never happen.

    When it comes to credibility, I think you have already proven by the number of patronising comments you have made, including the one above, that it is seriously in doubt. You have already p*ssed off a number of people with the little time you have spent on the forum. But well we can't stop people like you from participating in this forum, even though we think you probably belong in another forum where your level of comment would be more suitable.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by AusTechSpec View Post
    There is no argument on that, you do not need day by day training to perform singles and a level one sit spin.
    Oh, sorry, guess I'll just go sit on my arse for most of the week and my loop jump will magically appear all by itself, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by AusTechSpec View Post
    I actually find this to be the most sensible approach.

    My talk about coffee skate was not meant to be Condescending. I was being serious, it is merely the name of a session they run at some of the Queensland and WA rinks. It is simply an adult only session, in at least one of these rinks I know the adults named it Coffee Skate themselves...

    Unfortunately, we don't have enough ice in many of our rinks and this is not a problem we can easily get around...
    My problem with your coffee skate attitude is that you imply adult skaters should not bother skating more than twice a week, that we shouldn't work hard at our skating, that we shouldn't bother with private lessons.

    I am not going to be told what to do by you or by anyone. I skate four days a week, I have a half-hour private lesson each week, and I don't care if you think that's a waste of time, because it's not for me. I don't care if you think that adult skating should just be a "social" thing, I will continue to compete.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Oh, sorry, guess I'll just go sit on my arse for most of the week and my loop jump will magically appear all by itself, right?



    My problem with your coffee skate attitude is that you imply adult skaters should not bother skating more than twice a week, that we shouldn't work hard at our skating, that we shouldn't bother with private lessons.

    I am not going to be told what to do by you or by anyone. I skate four days a week, I have a half-hour private lesson each week, and I don't care if you think that's a waste of time, because it's not for me. I don't care if you think that adult skating should just be a "social" thing, I will continue to compete.
    no but one or two training sessions should help you out with a loop....

    I was not implying that they shouldn't bother skaters twice a week. I was implying both ways. Adults don't need the competitive skaters forcing you out of the way of their jumps every other minute because you too have things you want to work on.
    Both genres need their own ice.

    Adult skating is a social event.... I am not saying you cannot compete.
    What I am saying is that adult skating is more about, having fun for people who love to skate, meeting people at training and competitions who share your love of the sport, and achieving your own goals along the way.
    It is not about training everyday, constantly pushing yourself to exhaustion to improve, sacrificing your social life to do so.

  13. #93

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    If i had to skate in a coffee club session, I would stop skating. Firstly, because I have work during the day, and secondly, i find it so unmotivating to be working on doubles when people are working on 3 turns etc.

    Obviously adult skaters aren't aiming for the olympics, however, I don't think there is anything wrong with being an adult and training 5-6 days a week. It IS good for the sport in general, not just in australia, to have adult skaters that are able to work to a higher level.

    I agree that there should be a level requirement for sessions, ive said this before (in this thread even probably), but, if it means that your choices of sessions is cut down from 5 to 1, then, thats not good.

    A session for just jnrs/seniors wouldn't sustain itself, as there aren't enough people at that level to warrant it and having an elitist attitude about beginners sure isn't going to help draw people into the sport.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    How naive are you? Do you really think the rinks are going to create separate sessions for adults and elite skaters? If you have any knowledge of how most rinks operate in Australia, then that will never happen.

    When it comes to credibility, I think you have already proven by the number of patronising comments you have made, including the one above, that it is seriously in doubt. You have already p*ssed off a number of people with the little time you have spent on the forum. But well we can't stop people like you from participating in this forum, even though we think you probably belong in another forum where your level of comment would be more suitable.
    I believe I had already expressed the issue in that Australia does not currently have the capacity to support this in the below post.

    Quote Originally Posted by AusTechSpec View Post
    Obviously there is little we can do to facilitate that in Australia with our limited ice availability however would no substituting one of your training sessions to a coffee skate session help you out more.
    The fact is, coffee skate and other adult only sessions do happen in Australia, just not as often as is needed to fully support adult skaters.

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by AusTechSpec View Post
    I believe I had already expressed the issue in that Australia does not currently have the capacity to support this in the below post.



    The fact is, coffee skate and other adult only sessions do happen in Australia, just not as often as is needed to fully support adult skaters.

    Coffee club is intended though for adult beginners. do you propose that adults working on double jumps etc train with the adults or the real athletes? Or is there another type of skater we can be heaped in with?

  16. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    Coffee club is intended though for adult beginners. do you propose that adults working on double jumps etc train with the adults or the real athletes? Or is there another type of skater we can be heaped in with?
    We should all take up curling. Because that is more suited to the way adults should train and it is very social and fun.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    We should all take up curling. Because that is more suited to the way adults should train and it is very social and fun.
    oh man! why didn't you suggest this 3 weeks ago. Time to send those $800 skates back to the uk

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    Coffee club is intended though for adult beginners. do you propose that adults working on double jumps etc train with the adults or the real athletes? Or is there another type of skater we can be heaped in with?
    Yeh I guess so... But the sessions have at most 5 adults on them... You basically have clear ice, if you were to substitute it with just one or two or ur weekly sessions? wouldn't that make for a good training session? no elite forcing you to move for jumps?
    I am not saying you can only train on those sessions, more that you should be taking advantage of them if you have the opportunity...


    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    We should all take up curling. Because that is more suited to the way adults should train and it is very social and fun.
    You would be surprised, the demographic for curling is generally younger.

    I am not saying you can only take part in lawn bowls style sports though...

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    Anyway we seem to have been off topic, my bad there I guess...

    Anyone have any comments on my post about the actual patterns?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AusTechSpec View Post
    no but one or two training sessions should help you out with a loop....
    Oh, so that's the secret. Just one or two sessions and I will magically have it! All that work my coach and I have put in on it so far is totally useless, I should have known that it was just one or two that would have done it for me!

    I mean, do you even know what you're writing?

    Quote Originally Posted by AusTechSpec View Post
    I was not implying that they shouldn't bother skaters twice a week. I was implying both ways. Adults don't need the competitive skaters forcing you out of the way of their jumps every other minute because you too have things you want to work on.
    Both genres need their own ice.
    But that is what you are saying. And for someone who claims to be in Australian figure skating, you are astonishingly ignorant of the ice time situation. We will NEVER have Snr/Jnr only sessions. We will NEVER have adult-only sessions. EVER.

    Getting out of the way of other people is a part of the rhythm of a session. Whether it is an adult getting out of the way of a Novice, a Senior getting out of the way of an adult, or a Senior getting out of the way of a Junior, that's how these sessions work.

    Quote Originally Posted by AusTechSpec View Post
    It is not about training everyday, constantly pushing yourself to exhaustion to improve, sacrificing your social life to do so.
    I'm sorry that you're so closed-minded that you think so. But that's what it is to me. That is the kind of person I am. I have finally, finally, after 22 years, found a sport that I am GOOD at and can do and I love. If you think I'm going to just treat that casually, well, I could tell you where to shove it, but I don't think it would be considered very polite.

    I will push myself, I will push my boundaries, and if that means I end up in the ER again, well, so be it. That's what I have Ambulance Cover for.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    If i had to skate in a coffee club session, I would stop skating. Firstly, because I have work during the day, and secondly, i find it so unmotivating to be working on doubles when people are working on 3 turns etc.
    ^

    This!

    (Well, except the doubles part. I will be delighted if I ever land doubles.)

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