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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Manuela Ruben is a mystery for me ! She doesn't seem to have a very good skating, nor good jumps, nor posture...but she had a good career. lol
    Was she good at Figures ?
    What good career? Coming 7th or 8th a couple of times in World events, LOL! Her only real achievement was coming 2nd at Europeans once. That year Voderezova and Leistner missed Europeans, and I am guessing the erratic Kondrashova and Ivanova probably bombed worse than usual to come below Rueben.

    When she landed her jumps they were pretty good for the time, she has landed 3 or 4 triples per some programs and it was only a few years before that hardly anyone was landing more than 2, and her figures were pretty good too.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    Apparently, her free skate from 1984 was a direct rip off, both in layout and music, of Linda Fratianne's 1980 Olympic program to Carmen.
    Except Linda didn't include any "waxels" in her program.

  3. #23
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    Originally Posted by essence_of_soy
    Apparently, her free skate from 1984 was a direct rip off, both in layout and music, of Linda Fratianne's 1980 Olympic program to Carmen.
    The Carlo Fassi (Ruben's coach by 1984) vs. Frank Carroll (Fratianne's coach) debates continue....

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    What good career? Coming 7th or 8th a couple of times in World events, LOL! Her only real achievement was coming 2nd at Europeans once. That year Voderezova and Leistner missed Europeans, and I am guessing the erratic Kondrashova and Ivanova probably bombed worse than usual to come below Rueben.
    Considering her overall qualities, I'm surprised she managed to finish that high in the rankings. Maybe I didn't say it well, but IMO, 2nd at Europeans and 6th at Worlds are good achievements.
    Anyway, I asked this because I watched french coverage of 1983 Euros, and commentators were talking about Manuela Ruben, as if she was a favorite to win over Witt or Leistner...I was surprised.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Considering her overall qualities, I'm surprised she managed to finish that high in the rankings. Maybe I didn't say it well, but IMO, 2nd at Europeans and 6th at Worlds are good achievements.
    It is not like their were alot of good skaters in the ladies event around then. Just look at Ivanovas bronze performance in Sarajevo, and the silver and bronze performances at the 82 and 83 Worlds. If the highest you could manage was 6th or 7th back then that only shows you probably pretty much sucked anyway, and that the judges concurred with that. 77-85 has to go down as the most dire time period for womens skating ever. Thankfully the pairs and dance were amazing back then.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    77-85 has to go down as the most dire time period for womens skating ever.
    Ouch.

    What about:

    Denise Biellmann
    Barbie Smith
    Lisa Marie Allen
    Elaine Zayak
    Tiffany Chin
    Midori Ito
    Elizabeth Manley
    Cynthia Coull
    Debbie Cotrill
    Katarina Witt
    Rosalynn Sumners
    Vicki DeVris
    Kay Thomson
    Last edited by essence_of_soy; 03-10-2012 at 02:47 AM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    Ouch.

    What about:

    Denise Biellmann
    Barbie Smith
    Lisa Marie Allen
    Elaine Zayak
    Tiffany Chin
    Midori Ito
    Elizabeth Manley
    Cynthia Coull
    Debbie Cotrill
    Katarina Witt
    Rosalynn Sumners
    Vicki DeVris
    Kay Thomson
    Who was Barbie Smith? I assume a top American or Canadian skater? I never heard of her ...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Who was Barbie Smith? I assume a top American or Canadian skater? I never heard of her ...
    She was 4th at Worlds in 1977. At the 1976 Nationals she made what is thought to be skating history by becoming the first American woman to land two different triple jumps in one program. She skated before Fratianne who also landed two. However many people say that Melissa Militano landed triple toe, sal and loop in her LP at the 1972 Nationals.

    Anyway here's Barbie's Worlds LP from 1977
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WC6o...h_response_rev

    Lovely skater

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    Ouch.

    What about:

    Denise Biellmann- great skater but due to figures wasnt a threat to medal until 1981, then abruptly retired at 17 on the spot, leaving others scrambling for the vacant major titles of the 82-84 period which all should have been hers.

    Barbie Smith- No comment.

    Lisa Marie Allen- pleasant skater and easy to watch but never a real contender, in part due to figures, in part due to inconsistency, in part due to being #2 American, in part due to lack of jumping firepower.

    Elaine Zayak- After 1980-1981 season had only 3 good competitions, even if all were big ones (82 Worlds, 84 Olympics, 84 Worlds), and due to figures and politics wasnt a real contender anymore by the latter two.

    Tiffany Chin- impressive skater for about a year. Sad unfulfilled talent.

    Midori Ito- only major senior competition in that time was 1984 Worlds, and at that point was truly just a jumping bean.

    Elizabeth Manley- definitely nothing to note before 86 Worlds LP.

    Cynthia Coull- no comment.

    Debbie Cotrill- tried alot of triples but never got anywhere in the sport. Didnt even compete in an Olympics.

    Katarina Witt- definitely the best free skater in World in 82-85, despite being very rough around the edges still. Stepped into the gaping hole left by Biellmanns retirement.

    Rosalynn Sumners- one dimensional pretty skating with mostly weak athleticsm. Was only a real top skater for about 15 months, and choked away the Olympic Gold with a somewhat lame and not somewhat tenative performance.

    Vicki DeVris- not sure why she fizzled out so fast just when it looked like she was about to get somewhere.

    Kay Thomson- nice spins, but that ABC awarded Zayak the World title officialy before she even skated last at the 82 Worlds, and was ahead of Zayak going into the LP, already tells you enough.

    I also notice you didnt even mention Poetzsch, Fratianne, and Lurz but just for the record zzzzzzzzzz. The almost entirely non medal winning free skating of Watanabe, Biellmann, and a young Voderezova from 78-81, and the SP and LPs of Witt, Chin, and Zayak in Sarajevo were the only memorable things about that whole time period. Marie Allens 78 Worlds LP and Zayaks 82 Worlds LP I guess as well.

  10. #30
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    What about Carrie Rugh and Sandy Lenz, or even Wendy Burge? Just because they didn't win anything doesn't mean they weren't great skaters. Honestly Judgejudy you're so dismissive of everyone and everything in skating that I wonder why you even watch the sport!

  11. #31
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    Pretty much everyone who watches the sport would agree with me that 1977-1985 was the weakest time ever for ladies skating, 1977-1982 especialy. The dark age, kind of similar to the dark age in womens tennis going on from 2008-2011, it doesnt change that I am a big womens tennis fan, in fact it only proves that I am that I can recognize that. The great Peggy Fleming for instance even called that period abysmal on numerous occasions. Last I checked figure skating wasnt around only 8 years, more like over 100 years, and ladies singles is 1 of only 4 disciplines, so I fail to see how that demonstrates I am dismissive of all things figure skating.

    Anyway it only started when I pointed out nobody should be surprised Manuela Rueben could come around 7th a few times at big events in a somewhat weaker time for ladies skating.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 03-10-2012 at 04:23 PM.

  12. #32

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    There was a point in time when people really admired the figures and viewed the free skate as just a victory lap. Of course, one literally had to be there.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 03-10-2012 at 07:47 PM.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    There was a point in time when people really admired the figures and view the free skate as just a victory lap. Of course, one literally had to be there.
    Especially when figures counted for as much as 70% of one's total!

  14. #34

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    Especially when the figures were as utterly amazing as Trixie Schuba's!!

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    What about Carrie Rugh and Sandy Lenz, or even Wendy Burge? Just because they didn't win anything doesn't mean they weren't great skaters. Honestly Judgejudy you're so dismissive of everyone and everything in skating that I wonder why you even watch the sport!

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    I have the CTV footage of 84 Worlds and they showed Midori's LP. Their coverage was always way better and more extensive than the US or British coverage.
    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    Here's the Canadian coverage floskate mentioned:

    Midori Ito 1984 Worlds LP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd6tfcjt8G4
    I happily stand corrected. I guess my memory isn't as reliable as I like to think. Thanks for the link - I enjoyed watching that. Do either of you know if they also showed her between 85 and 87? It would be interesting to see.

  17. #37
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    1985 Midori didn't compete due to her ankle injury. 1986 I'd have to check and then 1987 Worlds was covered by CBC and they didn't show her.

  18. #38

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    Skate Talker, your wish is my command.
    She didn't compete in 1985 Worlds (stress fracture)

    Midori Ito 1986 Worlds SP & LP (JPTV)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FfYj...4880C8151FC1BE

    Here is Midori's great 1986 LP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4oZ-Judbac

    (UK Commentary by Betty Calloway)

    Midori Ito 1987 Worlds SP (charming)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIDkgyLjcPQ

    Midori Ito 1987 Worlds LP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ_C60zJfB4

    Better quality clips are available.
    Last edited by skatesindreams; 03-11-2012 at 04:27 PM.

  19. #39

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    duplicate post

  20. #40

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    Thanks, skatesindreams.

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