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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I personally think if the judges wanted to place Stojko over Candelero in the long program, they would have, even knowing it wouldnt affect the final results (probably) either way. There was tons of room between Candelero and Kulik's scores too do so. They obviously didnt. In either case the fact you dont feel confident putting Eldredge over Stojko, means you cant be totally sure of him beating Candelero who did beat Stojko in the LP.
    Didn't say I'm sure but I still somehow feel like that is what would have happened. Six-triple Eldredge >>> six-triple Candeloro.

    But what I do feel sure about is that no way Candeloro's sloppy performance goes ahead of a clean Eldredge.

  2. #62

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    I would suggest that Candeloro's step sequence is what got him a medal. It just worked. There was no denying that he was incredibly entertaining and the judges had to give him credit for the fact that conceptually and musically he was miles ahead of everyone else. Todd was quite elegant and clean, but boring.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Now I'll quibble. Candeloro took bronze at 1995 Worlds and Yagudin at 1997. I don't see how you could say Yagudin didn't "invade" the world podium in those years.
    Ooops. Total brain fart on my part. Getting old. Following the sport too long. I should fact check before I post.

  4. #64
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    Some considerations

    Ladies with 2 or more World medals but no Olympic Medal

    2 bronze - Tiffany Chin, Claudia Kristofics-Binder
    1 silver, 1 bronze - Julie Lynn Holmes
    2 silver - Claudia Leistner
    1 gold, 1 bronze - Jill Trenary
    1 silver, 2 bronze - Fumie Suguri, Carolina Kostner
    3 silver - Surya Bonaly
    1 gold, 2 bronze - Maria Butyrskaya
    1 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze - Elaine Zayak


    Men with 2 or more World medals but no Olympic Medal

    2 bronze - Takeshi Honda, Michael Weiss, Gary Visconti
    1 silver, 1 bronze - Christopher Bowman, Norbert Schramm
    1 gold, 3 bronze - Alexander Fadeev
    4 gold, 1 silver - Kurt Browning
    1 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze - Todd Eldredge, Brian Joubert

    Pairs with 2 or more World medals but no Olympic medal

    2 bronze - Starbuck and Shelley
    1 silver, 1 bronze - Pestova and Leonovich
    1 gold, 1 bronze - Underhill and Martini
    1 gold, 1 silver - Kavarikova and Novotny
    1 silver, 2 bronze - Meno and Sand (Sand with an additional bronze with Kuchiki)
    1 gold, 2 bronze - Babilonia and Gardner
    1 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze - Eltsova and Bushkov, Shishkova and Naumov
    1 gold, 1 silver, 2 bronze - Petrova and Tikhnov
    1 gold, 3 silver, 1 bronze - Baess and Thierbach
    Last edited by Seerek; 03-08-2012 at 04:50 AM.

  5. #65

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    Did Johnny Weir win two world bronze medals or just one?

    Yuka Sato won just one world medal, but it was a gold.

    Petrova-Tikhonov: 1 gold, 1 bronze

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Did Johnny Weir win two world bronze medals or just one?

    Yuka Sato won just one world medal, but it was a gold.

    Petrova-Tikhonov: 1 gold, 1 bronze
    Petrova & Tikhonov actually have 1 gold (2000), 1 silver (2005), 2 bronze (2003, 2006), and 4 4th place finishes (1999, 2001, 2002, 2004). That should look even better IMHO as they were totally robbed of bronze in 1999, a bronze in 2002, and a silver or gold in 2006. They amazingly never finished lower than 4th at a Worlds they completed, but were only 6th and 5th at their two Olympics.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Did Johnny Weir win two world bronze medals or just one?
    Weir won Bronze in 2008.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Petrova & Tikhonov actually have 1 gold (2000), 1 silver (2005), 2 bronze (2003, 2006), and 4 4th place finishes (1999, 2001, 2002, 2004). That should look even better IMHO as they were totally robbed of bronze in 1999, a bronze in 2002, and a silver or gold in 2006. They amazingly never finished lower than 4th at a Worlds they completed, but were only 6th and 5th at their two Olympics.
    No offense to P/T but B/S didn't compete in 2000 because of her doping violation so it was much easier for P/T to win gold, otherwise it would have been a silver. Same with their European golds in 1999-2000.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    Some considerations.......snip
    Thank you for this. What a great list.

    Could you do it for dance too please
    My travel and adventure blog http://alisonanddon.wordpress.com

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Petrova & Tikhonov actually have 1 gold (2000), 1 silver (2005), 2 bronze (2003, 2006), and 4 4th place finishes (1999, 2001, 2002, 2004). That should look even better IMHO as they were totally robbed of bronze in 1999, a bronze in 2002, and a silver or gold in 2006. They amazingly never finished lower than 4th at a Worlds they completed, but were only 6th and 5th at their two Olympics.
    They were also robbed of an opportunity to win a medal at the 2001 world, when their clean SP was placed lower than a pair that made a major mistake, and they did not get any benefit of being the defending world champions at that time. Their Olympic placements, however, were correct. It's not like they skated poorly, but there were better pairs.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by alilou View Post
    Thank you for this. What a great list.

    Could you do it for dance too please
    No problem....

    Dance Teams with 2 or more World medals but no Olympic Medal:

    1 silver, 1 bronze - Moniotte and Lavanchy, Rahkamo and Kokko
    2 silver - Dubreuil and Lauzon
    3 bronze - Blumberg and Seibert
    2 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze - Denkova and Staviski
    1 gold, 1 silver, 4 bronze - Bourne and Kraatz


    By the way, the fact that Todd Eldredge and Brian Joubert have the exact same distribution of their 6 world championship medals is quite something!

    1 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze - Todd Eldredge, Brian Joubert

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    No offense to P/T but B/S didn't compete in 2000 because of her doping violation so it was much easier for P/T to win gold, otherwise it would have been a silver. Same with their European golds in 1999-2000.
    There is never a guarantee. You can't say that B&S would not have made major mistakes at the 2000 worlds. Their suspension in 2000 was sad, and IMO it derailed their career completely. The fact that they even stayed in contention for a world and Olympic gold after that is a tribute to their perseverance. However, I would not take anything away from P&T when it comes to their 2000 worlds title. They skated well in every competition they entered that season, and should have beaten B&S in the GPF for 3rd place (this, from a B&S fan!). It was only after the 2000 worlds that Maria had an injury and they (P&T) could not progress further. They were still good enough to medal, but did not, in many competitions. They should have won the bronze in the 2002 worlds though.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    There is never a guarantee. You can't say that B&S would not have made major mistakes at the 2000 worlds. Their suspension in 2000 was sad, and IMO it derailed their career completely. The fact that they even stayed in contention for a world and Olympic gold after that is a tribute to their perseverance. However, I would not take anything away from P&T when it comes to their 2000 worlds title. They skated well in every competition they entered that season, and should have beaten B&S in the GPF for 3rd place (this, from a B&S fan!). It was only after the 2000 worlds that Maria had an injury and they (P&T) could not progress further. They were still good enough to medal, but did not, in many competitions. They should have won the bronze in the 2002 worlds though.
    They certainly could have made a mistake but after beating them in the GPF, Russian Nationals and the European Championships earlier in the season my money would have been on B/S to pull out another win. Especially since P/T had never beaten them.

  14. #74
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    If P/T were robbed in 2001 or 2002, they were gifted at 2003 Worlds. His stamina was awful, and several lifts almost came to a complete stop. Their style and line were neither the same nor complementary, and few of their elements were exceptional. They always seemed to be the oddball Russian pair.

    Dubreuil/Lauzon looked like they were on their way to a medal until the disaster in the OD.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  15. #75
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    Petrova & Tikhonov might well have won the 2000 Worlds even had Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze competed although obviously a clean B&S would have won easily. That was a crazy and wide open year for pairs, nobody dominating. Petrova & Tikhonov had been the most consistent pair all season, the only pair to not one of their regular grand prix outings. Although they came 4th at the Grand Prix final they were the only pair to skate cleanly there, but that particular panel was clearly not on their side. Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze were having one of their most subpar seasons and were very up and down. It wouldnt surprise me much if they made enough errors to not win Worlds, although they might well have won too of course, it is no certainty.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    If P/T were robbed in 2001 or 2002, they were gifted at 2003 Worlds.
    Not sure who should have deserved bronze though if it wasn't Petrova/Tikhnov since Pang/Tong and Langlois/Archetto were too far back after the Short Program.

  17. #77
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    I would have had Langlois & Archetto 5th in the SP instead of 6th and 3rd in the LP and 3rd overall at the 2003 Worlds. Then again I would have had Petrova & Tikhonov 2nd in the SP (since Shen & Zhou botched their spins badly) which would have still had them 3rd overall.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    No offense to P/T but B/S didn't compete in 2000 because of her doping violation so it was much easier for P/T to win gold, otherwise it would have been a silver. Same with their European golds in 1999-2000.
    And IMO, it could have been a bronze, because some said Shen&Zhao were robbed in 2000. So maybe PetTikh won because judges didn't want Shen&Zhao to win ! I have no real point of view since I think it was very close and I was not fan of any of those two teams (B&S were my favourite, I was so sad they didn't compete since their LP to Valse Sentimentale was so beautiful)

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    And IMO, it could have been a bronze, because some said Shen&Zhao were robbed in 2000. So maybe PetTikh won because judges didn't want Shen&Zhao to win ! I have no real point of view since I think it was very close and I was not fan of any of those two teams (B&S were my favourite, I was so sad they didn't compete since their LP to Valse Sentimentale was so beautiful)
    It wasn't even close. S&Z had three significant errors. Petrova-Tikhonov's only mistake- IIRC- was Maria slightly two footed the landing of the double toe of the jump sequence. Other than that they had a very solid skate. Remind you, these were not S&Z of 2003! They had no artistry, and they had to depend solely on their technical elments. When they made 3 mistakes, the door was wide open for anyone.

    I loved B&S's Valse Sentimentale LP, and even their Radetzky March SP (when skated clean/nearly clean) of the 2000 season. I read that by the time worlds arrived, they had worked through their problems and were feeling comfortable with their programs. Actually their skate at the Europeans was pretty good, except for a doubled triple toe by Elena. So there is a good chance that B&S would have won their 3rd world championship in a row and set themselves well for the pre-Olympic year 2001.

    Still, I would not take anything away from Pet-Tik because they delivered two solid skates when it counted, and B&S's skate never happened. S&Z were not even close in that LP, based on how everyone skated.

  20. #80
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    Shen & Zhou robbed in 2000? Definitely not. They were in fact lucky to win silver, and many said so at the time as well. They had 4 mistakes in their long program, and their technical marks to be as high as they were a joke, particularly when the French had only 1 mistakes (granted a fall on a throw) and received lower tech. marks, and Sale & Pelletier had 3 mistakes on jumps but did everything else cleanly and received 5.4s and 5.5s for technical vs the 5.7s and 5.8s of Shen & Zhou (probably the only time I would ever say S&P were underscored compared to S&Z). They could have just as easily been 3rd or 4th, although I didnt have a problem with their coming 2nd, 1st no way. As Vash01 said they werent even a good artistic team yet, they were a great technical team, so they werent ever going to win by missing alot of their major elements.

    It would be interesting if Elena & Anton winning in 2000 would have solidified their reputation as the dominant team to the point it would have been much harder for Sale & Pelletier to be pushed above them in the coming seasons. After an unconvincing season, then missing Worlds, it made it easier for TPTB to help push S&P to the top very soon, even after bombing their Nice LP.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 03-08-2012 at 11:37 PM.

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