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  1. #21
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    Kurt Browning, obviously.

    Maria Butyrskaya. Much more so than Harding or Bobek. She may have gotten shafted in Nagano for bronze.

    I vaguely remember Urbanski/Marval because he was a truck driver, and she got into some sort of fight with a speed skater or something. Being the top pairs skaters in the US usually meant top 10 internationally, not a medalist. Didn't John Zimmerman and that girl he skated with come closer than Urbanski/Marval?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Actually the whole list is ridiculous. Tiffany Chin, Elaine Zayak, Surya Bonaly, Tonya Harding, and Jill Trenary could all be on a top 10 ladies singles to never win an Olympic medal, but it is doubtful any of them would have made a top 10 considering all disciplines.
    I disagree about Tonya. I think she easily makes a top 10 with all disciplines considered.

  3. #23
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    Kurt for sure. I also do agree with Todd...1998 was heartbreaking.

    In terms of US pairs, Kyoko Ina (with either partner) is a better choice than Urbanski and Marvel.

    Punsalen and Swallow, Bourne and Kratz, and Dubreuil and Lazon are all good choices in dance...

  4. #24

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    Not having Browning and having Bonaly doesn't give the list credit.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I disagree with this. When I saw the subject, Todd was actually the first skater I thought of. Going into the 98 Olympics, I think most folks assumed the podium would be him, Kulik, & Stojko in some order. Folks did not expect Candeloro to come up with programs like that after wandering in the wilderness for the previous couple years.
    That is basically the same thing I said. The 98 Olympics are really the only Olympics he was expected to medal in. As for Candelero, I agree, but what about young Yagudin who skated the best performances of the year at Cup of Russia. As it turns out even with Yagudin opening the door for him with a poor free skating performance, he still probably couldnt have medaled, since Candelero did so well in the long program, even beating Stojko in the long. If we presume a clean Todd wasnt capable of beating Stojko in the long program, it means he wouldnt have been able to beat Candelero either, and with the short program placings would not have medaled.

    I still agree with him being on the short list of best skaters to not medal due to all his World medals, but as it is, it would have been hard for him to ever medal nonetheless.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    If we presume a clean Todd wasnt capable of beating Stojko in the long program, it means he wouldnt have been able to beat Candelero either, and with the short program placings would not have medaled.
    I don't think one can presume that at all, considering even with his very subpar performance Todd took 3 ordinals from Stojko in the free skate (as well as 2 from Candeloro).

    http://winter-olympic-memories.com/h...igure_m_ex.htm

  7. #27
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    My Top Eight (not in order of preference):

    Denkova & Staviski
    Delobel & Schoenfelder
    Babilonia & Gardner
    Biellmann
    Butyrskaya
    Harding
    Browning
    Joubert

    Plenty of others who could be in the Top Ten: Fadeev, Eldredge, Sato, Ando, Zayak, etc.
    Last edited by Vagabond; 03-06-2012 at 01:54 AM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    I disagree about Tonya. I think she easily makes a top 10 with all disciplines considered.
    In terms of pure skating talent I definitely agree, but I dont think an accurate list is based mostly on talent and (unfullfilled) potential. In terms of her overall career and how much a factor she was, she wouldnt be close to top 10 with all disciplines considered. She was only a medal contender at one Olympics and only the 3rd favorite going into that one.

  9. #29
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    I agree with Chin and Harding. I'd add Blumberg/Seibert, Kurt Browning, Alexander Abt, Pestova/Leonovich, Delobel/Schoenfelder, Rakhamo/Kokko, John Misha Petkevich, Gary Beacom, Toller Cranston.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  10. #30
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    Kurt Browning definitely, Butyrskaya, Babilonia/Gardner, Rakkamo/Koko (terribly underrated IMO)

  11. #31

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    If you take out Meno & Sand and Jill Trenary, the list is like a collection of great (mostly American) skaters who didn't fit the mold or had some sort of scrappy, off-beat story. In that case, I think this is an interesting list.

  12. #32

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    Underhill/Martini, Yuka Sato, Annenko/Sretenski, Drobiazko/Vanagas...........

  13. #33
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    Oops, just got a PM that Cranston won a bronze medal, so he has to be scrapped from my list
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  14. #34

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    Denise Biellman - I still think she should have won it all in Lake Placid - I know she had terrible school figures, but her skating in the short and long was amazing.

  15. #35

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    Urbanski & Marvel on this list? Beyond ridiculous.

    31 is not that old for a pairs skater. Did U&M ever get within a mile of an Olympic medal?

    Do these two ladies know much about figure skating? No Browning, Eldredge on this list just tells me that they know nothing.

    Even Jill Trenary does not belong on this list. Her only chance at an Olympic medal was in 1988, and she was lucky to finish in 4th (or was it 5th?) place.

  16. #36

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    I feel like I know less about skating after reading that Pinhead, oh, I mean Hairpin article.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Was Todd really "always expected to medal"?
    For the most part, especially in 1998.

    He was the two-time reigning world bronze medalist ('90, '91) going into 1992, though he was injured in '92 and controversially named to the US team he surely was considered to have a shot at the podium.

    He had a streak of nothing but world silver ('95, '97) and gold ('96) going into 1998 where someone else already mentioned that it was pretty much presumed that Stojko, Kulik and Eldredge would be the podium in some order. The only guy to invade the world podium from those three from 95-97 was Galindo's bronze in 96 and that's only because Stojko had the wipeout of his career in the SP.

    In 2002 he was again the reigning world bronze medalist, though expectations weren't huge, he was definitely considered a threat for bronze with a half dozen other guys (while Yags and Plush were pretty much assumed to go 1-2 in either order.)

    While the Browning omission completely discredits the list, I'm fine with Bonaly off of it. Tumbling on ice with flat edges and no stretch, lines or musical interpretation. Her lack of an O medal is one of the things they've got right it in the history of the sport.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by leesaleesa View Post
    Kurt Browning, obviously.

    Maria Butyrskaya. Much more so than Harding or Bobek. She may have gotten shafted in Nagano for bronze.

    I vaguely remember Urbanski/Marval because he was a truck driver, and she got into some sort of fight with a speed skater or something. Being the top pairs skaters in the US usually meant top 10 internationally, not a medalist. Didn't John Zimmerman and that girl he skated with come closer than Urbanski/Marval?
    That girl was Kyoko Ina, and yes they were much closer to an Olympic podium than Urbanski-Marvel ever were. However, I don't think they had a realistic chance to beat B&S/S&P/S&Z for an Olympic medal in 2002 (the only Olympics they skated in), unless one of the top 3 pairs bombed. Actually Ina & Dungjen (4th place in 98) were closer to the podium than Ina-Zimmerman (5th place in 2002, I think)

  19. #39
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    Ina & Dungen probably would have medaled at the 98 Games if they had their 98 Nationals LP. With Elena & Anton having 2 huge errors, Woetzel & Steur injured and very subpar, and the controversy (justified or not) about their short program placing, if they duplicated their U.S Nationals performance I am pretty sure the judges would have had to give them a medal. That was the skate of their life though so it would have been hard to repeat under the Olympic pressure, and as it turns out they werent even close. With mistakes they had no chance as their unision, speed, and artistry did not stack up to the other top teams, nor their reputation. They probably would have won silver at the very weak 98 post Olympic Worlds but had to pull out with injury.

    Ina & Zimmerman had no chance to medal in 2002 IMO. I enjoyed their programs that year and it was great to see them finally hit their peak as a pair. However even a very subpar Shen & Zhou in the LP easily beat them (all 9 judges had them ahead), and even a subpar and pre prime Totmianina & Marinin edged them. They just hadnt done enough that quad to build any momentum with the judges, Ina & Dungen atleast had been close to medaling at the 97 Worlds and were much more athletic than Ina & Zimmerman.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by BreakfastClub View Post
    For the most part, especially in 1998.
    Thanks - I figured he was a contender for part of his career, but there's a difference between being a contender in some years and "always expected to medal".

    I'd have Browning at #1 by a mile, and I'd include Butyrskaya, Denkova/Staviski, Delobel/Schoenfelder (would they have medalled had she not gotten pregnant?), Joubert and probably Yuka Sato.

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