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  1. #21
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    Your son seems pretty good considering his experience. Did he start learning the axel ?
    However it seems a little soon to spend a lot of money traveling for ISI competitions, considering the choice you have to face money wise. He can still test and when he gets to USFSA categories and improve, you will see then if he can have competitive potential.
    If it happens that your son doesn't improve (like he he can't do double jumps), maybe it still can be interesting, if he likes it, to compete even at a lower level.
    Fun and challenge is not made only for high level competitors.

    But maybe for now you still have a little time to see how far his potential can lead him. If it happens that your son can reach a good competitive level, you will have plenty of occasions to see how much competitions cost ! lol

  2. #22

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    The thing to remember, though, is that while you're "waiting to see" how he develops, all the kids he'll be competing against are competing NOW, getting used to it, learning the ropes and seeing where they fit on the ladder. Your son's first time out may very well be against a skater going out for the tenth, twentieth or fiftieth time. And there really is no substitute for competitive experience.
    I'd rather be thought of as absolutely ridiculous than as absolutely boring.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    The thing to remember, though, is that while you're "waiting to see" how he develops, all the kids he'll be competing against are competing NOW, getting used to it, learning the ropes and seeing where they fit on the ladder. Your son's first time out may very well be against a skater going out for the tenth, twentieth or fiftieth time. And there really is no substitute for competitive experience.
    RonC has actually to face a choice that is money oriented. The family can't put a lot of money on the table for competitions, so they have to select. It is probably better to wait and save money for future potential bigger competitions than spending all the money now for small competitions and leaving nothing for the future, especially if the skater gets really good.

  4. #24

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    How do you know how "really good" a skater is if they never compete? "Good" is relative.

    Look, if the kid wants to be a competitive skater, he's got to compete somewhere, sometime. I'm not saying that the family has to be travelling 400 miles every month and bankrupting themselves to do it, but it seems to me that one or two trips a year, in conjunction with a family vacation that the kid can compete in the middle of, is a decent investment. Competing is a skill just like jumps and spins; you have to practice it. And I've found that the kids who only compete at the "big events" like Regionals once a year get way more stressed than the ones who do three or four competitions a year, just because there's more "at stake" and they feel more pressure to do well because it's all they have to focus on.

    And then there's the whole debate about letting the judges learn who you are and what you can do. The theory espoused here is that the judges "know who they like" - to do that they have to see a skater several times to get familiar with what they can do. "Ice Castles" to the contrary, it's really rare for a totally unknown skater to suddenly appear out of nowhere and blow everyone else away the first time out.

    If it was me, and my kid really really wanted to compete, I'd negotiate a trade - skate one less day and we'll put the money we save toward a competition. But then I wouldn't have a beginning skater training every day anyway, so the point is moot. *shrug*
    Last edited by zaphyre14; 03-22-2012 at 01:32 PM.
    I'd rather be thought of as absolutely ridiculous than as absolutely boring.

  5. #25
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    I say wait and spend the resources on training and testing until he has the Axel and couple double jumps consistent.

    if there are shows and exhibitions available locally, enter him for more experience.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    How do you know how "really good" a skater is if they never compete? "Good" is relative.
    The kid is now only at the stage of learning to jump properly and learning spins. And he's been skating for only one year. This is not a priority for now to send him to competitions. Since a choice must be done, it is much better to spend the money for lessons and tests.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    Look, if the kid wants to be a competitive skater, he's got to compete somewhere, sometime. I'm not saying that the family has to be travelling 400 miles every month and bankrupting themselves to do it, but it seems to me that one or two trips a year, in conjunction with a family vacation that the kid can compete in the middle of, is a decent investment.
    Well, the family actually said they have to make a choice because competing now would be hard to handle financially. What is decent for you is not necessarely the same for others, and this family just said so.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    Competing is a skill just like jumps and spins; you have to practice it. And I've found that the kids who only compete at the "big events" like Regionals once a year get way more stressed than the ones who do three or four competitions a year, just because there's more "at stake" and they feel more pressure to do well because it's all they have to focus on.
    No, there is a gap between not competing until regionals and competing too soon in small events. It's not a matter of saying that the skater has to wait until he can get to regionals vs competing right now at beginners events. It's a matter of balancing things well and accordingly to financial conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    And then there's the whole debate about letting the judges learn who you are and what you can do. The theory espoused here is that the judges "know who they like" - to do that they have to see a skater several times to get familiar with what they can do. "Ice Castles" to the contrary, it's really rare for a totally unknown skater to suddenly appear out of nowhere and blow everyone else away the first time out.
    No, this is not an issue for now. At low levels the "know who they are" question doesn't mean anything. First, there are too many skaters in these competitions to decently have judges mark better skaters they already know. Secondly, under the judging system, with marks that can't be discussed technically, and components that are more precise now than before, judges spend their time focusing on the performance, not trying to remember who the skater is and when they saw him the last time. Third and probably the most important, this is not how a skater and parents should enter the sport and competitive spirit. At this kids level, sport should not consist of playing strategy and focusing on elements that are external to the performance and the sport itself. They must focus on improvement, on quality of the elements, on getting skills properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaphyre14 View Post
    If it was me, and my kid really really wanted to compete, I'd negotiate a trade - skate one less day and we'll put the money we save toward a competition. But then I wouldn't have a beginning skater training every day anyway, so the point is moot. *shrug*
    No again, things must be done in order. The point is at first to learn the sport, then one can compete. It is irrelevant to priorise competition vs training. If a kid wants to skate, this is better to let him practice and learn the sport. There is no point to send a skater to competition if he can't skate. And skating is taught in lessons and with training, not during competitions. Competition is there to show the result of the training, not to learn skating skills. Also, at that age, if the skater like it of course, it is very good to allow him to practice as much as possible, because skills are better learned at a young age, and best improvment are made at this age.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjane45 View Post
    I say wait and spend the resources on training and testing until he has the Axel and couple double jumps consistent.

    if there are shows and exhibitions available locally, enter him for more experience.
    That is indeed better that way.

  7. #27
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    If you live in a small place you really should take advantage of anything he can do.Comps in small places DO NOT MAKE MONEY.They lose money but are done to give skaters something to do.If he can do ISI, he will have a ton of events to enter. They all help him be a better skater.
    Something I think people dont realize is how time intensive this sport is and how long things take.If you wait till he an axle and a few doubles, then you are talking about waiting a FEW YEARS.Those jumps take time. Even when you have them, you lose them and gain them back.
    Does he have his axle? You know some kids never get it because single dont take long and they think the same for axle.They get frustrated and stop.Comps even at low levels give them something to work towards.
    Last edited by skatemomoftwo; 03-26-2012 at 07:13 PM.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Artifice View Post
    No again, things must be done in order. The point is at first to learn the sport, then one can compete. It is irrelevant to priorise competition vs training. If a kid wants to skate, this is better to let him practice and learn the sport. There is no point to send a skater to competition if he can't skate. And skating is taught in lessons and with training, not during competitions. Competition is there to show the result of the training, not to learn skating skills.
    But competing is a skill in and of itself, that you can only really learn how to do by competing. And in programs like ISI you can participate in competitions at very basic levels of skill. I agree that spending time on competitions instead of spending time on lessons is not a good idea, but I don't see a problem with doing a small amount of competing while mostly focusing on the lessons and the skill development. If anything, you might discover that you hate competing, which will then help you further focus what you want to do in the sport.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

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