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  1. #1

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    What are the hardest throws (current) pairs are doing these days?

    Savchenko-SZolkowy are doing throw triple axel (although I don't know if they landed one clean in a competition). Other than Inoue & Baldwin in the past, I don't believe anyone has landed this.

    AFAIK Kawaguchi-Smirnov still have the throw quad salchow on their list. Is anyone else doing/attempting this? (The Zhangs had landed it LONG ago in a competition, but not at senior worlds, AFAIK). With the COP there is less incentive to try this very dangerous throw.

    I think a couple of pairs are doing throw triple lutzes. Correct me if I am wrong- Denney-Coughlin? and Duhamel & Radford?

    Only a handful of pairs are doing even throw triple flip. In the past it was S&S (I think they are still doing this) and Obertas & Slavnov (also Obertas & Sokolov).

    Throw triple toe is actually a difficult throw but it has lower value, so I don't think anyone is doing this. They would rather do a throw 3sal or 3Loop. Petrova-Tikhonov used to do this (also Shishkova-Naumov) but they replaced it with throw 3loop to increase the difficulty. IMO the 3t is more difficult than 3S and 3R when it comes to a throw.

    May be some junior pairs are working on more difficult throws, or are they mainly working on difficult entrances? I would like to know.

  2. #2

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    Castelli/Shnapir attempted throw quad Salchow in their WTT free skate (called rotated, fall): http://www.isuresults.com/results/wt...S_P_Scores.pdf

    Throw Lutz and flip currently have the same value (refer to page 6 in the current ISU Scale of Values document): http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=4455

    Throw double or triple 3T is required in the Junior Pairs SP this season.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 07-04-2013 at 07:32 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  3. #3

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    OOPS! Wrong forum. I had meant to start this in the Trash can. Can an admin move it please?

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    Savchenko/Szolkowy have never landed a clean throw 3axel in competition. Inoue/Baldwin are the only team to have achieved that so far (Abitbol/Bernardis attempted it).

    Kawaguchi/Smirnov have never landed a clean throw quad salchow, IIRC. And they haven't attempted it for a while so they don't really 'have it on their list.'

    Zhangs landed it at a national event so it didn't count (although it would now given Mroz's quad lutz was ratified...).

    The only team to have landed a clean quad throw (salchow) were Vise/Trent at a GP event, IIRC.

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    Vise/Trent's ratified throw quad Salchow happened in their FS at 2007 TEB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv-ptO1Z7Ag

    Pairs SP at 2013 Worlds - protocol: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._SP_Scores.pdf
    3LzTh (1): Duhamel/Radford
    3FTh (5): Savchenko/Szolkowy, James/Cipres, Sui/Han, Scimeca/Knierim, Kemp/King
    3LoTh (8): Volosozhar/Trankov, Kavaguti/Smirnov, Moore-Towers/Moscovitch, Pang/Tong, Bazarova/Larionov, Berton/Hotarek, Peng/Zhang, Makarova/Kenchadze
    3STh (3): Castelli/Shnapir, Della Monica/Guarise, Vartmann/Van Cleave
    2FTh: Klatka/Chruscinski
    Also: Denney/Coughlin did 3FTh in their SP last season, Bazarova/Larionov did 3LoTh, both Zhang/Bartholomay and Lawrence/Swiegers did 3LzTh.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 07-04-2013 at 07:56 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Savchenko/Szolkowy have never landed a clean throw 3axel in competition. Inoue/Baldwin are the only team to have achieved that so far (Abitbol/Bernardis attempted it).
    Castelli & Shnapir attempted it also, any others? Also, Savchenko & Szolkowy's 3Axel attempt in the Worlds FS wasn't *quite* clean, but was still a really good attempt and certainly gutsy and memorable at the very end of a 4 1/2 minute program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Savchenko/Szolkowy have never landed a clean throw 3axel in competition. Inoue/Baldwin are the only team to have achieved that so far (Abitbol/Bernardis attempted it).

    Kawaguchi/Smirnov have never landed a clean throw quad salchow, IIRC. And they haven't attempted it for a while so they don't really 'have it on their list.'

    Zhangs landed it at a national event so it didn't count (although it would now given Mroz's quad lutz was ratified...).

    The only team to have landed a clean quad throw (salchow) were Vise/Trent at a GP event, IIRC.
    Depends what you call clean. Savchenko/Szolkowy have landed a clean throw 3axel in competition. It wasn't underrotated and it wasn't with fall. It counted as a triple axel. But it did have some negative GOE because it was double footed.

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    Didn't Sui-Han do quad a year ago? Not this last season because they missed most of the season due to her injury, but the season 2011-2012 I think they did throw quad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post






    Throw triple toe is actually a difficult throw but it has lower value, so I don't think anyone is doing this. They would rather do a throw 3sal or 3Loop. Petrova-Tikhonov used to do this (also Shishkova-Naumov) but they replaced it with throw 3loop to increase the difficulty. IMO the 3t is more difficult than 3S and 3R when it comes to a throw.

    .
    Why do you say a throw 3t is more difficult than the sal or LP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post

    Throw triple toe is actually a difficult throw but it has lower value, so I don't think anyone is doing this. They would rather do a throw 3sal or 3Loop. Petrova-Tikhonov used to do this (also Shishkova-Naumov) but they replaced it with throw 3loop to increase the difficulty. IMO the 3t is more difficult than 3S and 3R when it comes to a throw.
    I don't know much about current pairs doing the throw 3toe. However, here are three from the 1998 Olympics:

    Eltsova & Bushkov's

    Woetzel & Steuer's

    Kazakova & Dmitriev's

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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Why do you say a throw 3t is more difficult than the sal or LP?
    The entrance into throw 3t is more difficult. IMO. It is not as smooth as the edge throws which create momentum on the throw more easily. I may be the only one who thinks this way though. Since I have never skated pairs, this is based purely on observations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Didn't Sui-Han do quad a year ago? Not this last season because they missed most of the season due to her injury, but the season 2011-2012 I think they did throw quad.
    Yes, they've gone for a 4Sth, but they've always had two-footed landings. (4CC 2012)

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    I don't think the triple flip is very attractive. I hate how the ladies leg reaches so far in between the man's legs. It's almost as if she's thrown straight up and down. I prefer the 3STh. K/S have done 16 quads, landing 10 (2008 WC -0.11). They haven't done it in competition in two years although they do it at practice and at practice in competitions. They have said they will be doing it this season. I thought K/S and S/H both got credit but I can't remember. I wonder if S/H will be still doing it? Isn't it on the ISU's site, all the jumps and throws that have been ratified?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Depends what you call clean. Savchenko/Szolkowy have landed a clean throw 3axel in competition. It wasn't underrotated and it wasn't with fall. It counted as a triple axel. But it did have some negative GOE because it was double footed.
    Clean is clean. A hand down, step out, double foot, over or under-rotation or indeed anything that gives a jump negative GOE is not IMO "clean". They did receive the base value of a 3A, but if no-one had landed a throw 3A before that attempt, they certainly would not have had it ratified as "the first" because of the error.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Depends what you call clean. Savchenko/Szolkowy have landed a clean throw 3axel in competition. It wasn't underrotated and it wasn't with fall. It counted as a triple axel. But it did have some negative GOE because it was double footed.
    Clean = landed on one foot and maintained balance on the landing without the need for the other foot (or hand) to touch down.

    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Didn't Sui-Han do quad a year ago? Not this last season because they missed most of the season due to her injury, but the season 2011-2012 I think they did throw quad.
    They attempted it a number of times but it was always landed on two feet in competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    The entrance into throw 3t is more difficult. IMO. It is not as smooth as the edge throws which create momentum on the throw more easily. I may be the only one who thinks this way though. Since I have never skated pairs, this is based purely on observations.
    Some skaters I talked to agree. It's down to individual preference and the technique that a skater was taught.

    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    K/S have done 16 quads, landing 10 (2008 WC -0.11).
    Never clean though.

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    Harder throws may not be "clean" or perfect but they still get a huge amount of points. That's the same reason D/R continue to do the triple Lutz, because even if they fall it will score well and if they land it (even if it's wonky) will get a huge score. There is a definite reason skaters push the limits of difficulty.

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