vh1's "List" of the "Greatest Women of Music" (1992 - Present) Countdown…WTF?!

[duane]

Where are Tina Turner, Gladys Knight and Diana Ross? And Aretha isn't on the list, either?

It's from 92 to the present. I remember a while back that they had The Greatest Women of Rock (I think)...Aretha was #1 and Tina was #2. Diana Ross was either in the 20's or 30's (which is baloney), but I think the Supremes were #11.

[siouxdonym]

79. PJ Harvey (Sonic Youth)

The most insulting thing about these lists is that they actually make the effort to pay sloppy lip service to legitimate artists like Kim Deal and Bjork.

bleh, it's VH1

[Cyn]

Just looking at the country singers, because you truly don't want to get me started on the rest, I'd move Miranda Lambert up the list. And I'd move Faith Hill down. Way down. Like, off. Sorry, Cyn. I do agree with you about putting Shania higher, though.

I'm not disagreeing that Miranda Lambert is talented, Wyliefan. Her mainstream success was not until 2008 (her debut album from 2005, which was strictly in the Country music market, didn't go platinum till three years later, after the release of 2008's Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. You do realize that by saying that you'd move her up on the list simply because you like her (and take Faith Hill off the list because you don't) would make it about popularity rather than on talent alone.

FTR, I cannot stand Shania Twain *or* Faith Hill, but I do recognize that they are talented artists who had an impact on the music industry by having several crossover hits. Male Country singers had done that for years, but women? That was a rarity.

Why is Wilson Phillips on that list? And how did you not bold them? Or the Spice Girls?

I don't agree with most of the list. But, Wilson Phillips and Spice Girls did make an impact on music. Now, I don't like the impact, but they made one, none the less.

FiveRinger summed up perfectly why Wilson-Phillips (who I despised with the fire of a thousand nuns) and Spice Girls (whose music is the stuff of my nightmares) are on the list. Besides, without Spice Girls, we wouldn't have Mrs. David Beckham to provide countless opportunities for snarkage .

And Carrie Underwood?? She should be off just for that ridiculous "Jesus Take the Wheel" song. And don't even get me started on the "vandalize a pick-up truck" song--don't even know what it's called.

There's just no reason for Carrie Underwood to be on the list.

Carrie Underwood won American Idol in Spring 2005, but she has consistently been at the top of both the Country *and* Top 40 Music Charts since then, won a slew of Grammys (over several years), Billboard Music Awards, is a three-time CMA Vocalist of the Year Award winner, a three-time winner of the ACM (Academy of Country Music) award for Entertainer of the Year (and was the first female to win three years in a row), was inducted into the Grand Ole Opry in 2008.

Her debut album (2006) went 7X Platinum. Her second album (2007) had four #1s on the Billboard Country Chart, and she had three consecutive #1s off her third album (2009).

Per Wikipedia (sources included in the footnotes on her page), "With eleven number one hits on Billboard Hot Country Songs, Underwood is listed in the 2012 Guinness Book Of World Records as the Female Country Artist with Most number one Hits on such chart from 1991 to present, tied with Reba McEntire. Her album Some Hearts was named the Best Country Album of the 2000 Decade by Billboard,[11] and she's the only Female Artist to appear on the Top 10 of Billboard's Best Country Artists of the 2000 Decade list, ranked at number ten.[12] She was also ranked number 50 on the Artists of the Decade list by Billboard."

…And that doesn't include the stats on the success of her singles .

Pretty darned successful (and popular), I must say (even if her music gives me hives).

I don't have a problem with Kelly Clarkson being top 20 since she has been around for 10 years now and has one of the best voices in pop music, plus Breakaway was one of the best pop albums of the 2000's, IMO. I am completely biased when it comes to Kelly, though.

Kelly Clarkson has been around since Fall of 2002, when she won American Idol (with that god-awful A Moment Like This "coronation" song, and every album she's released has been a commercial success. She also made the decision to get away from the "AI Winner" label, deliberately distancing herself from it, and she has had great success without it.

Has Chrissie Hyndes done anything of note in the past 20 years? Cause if she has I'm blanking on it.

Here's what she's done since the original Pretenders split up in 1982. Even without a major album release, Hynde did continue touring well into the late '90s, and she was a headliner at Lilith Fair (I saw her perform there in 1999, and she kicked serious ass).

Cher had "Believe" and that's been about it. We do have her to thank for autotuning though.

Cher's album, Love Hurts (released in 1991, but then again, this stupid countdown was done in 2011) went 14X platinum worldwide and had two hit singles -- that craptastic "The Shoop Shoop Song (It's In His Kiss)" that was also used in the movie Mermaids, and Love and Understanding, plus a few other minor hits (in Europe, but not in the US). In 1995: The album It's A Man's World, had two hits, again in Europe, with "Walking In Memphis" and "One By One." 1998 was when she released that Auto-Tuned nightmare, Believe (the less said about that one the better, but it was her most successful album ever ). In 1999, she was part of that whole "vh1 Presents: Divas Live" concert with a whole slew of famous female singers.

In 2002, she was nominated for two Grammys for her follow-up album to Believe and was in the "vh1: Divas in Las Vegas" televised concert. In June 2002 she announced her "Farewell Tour," one of which was televised. She received another Grammy nomination in 2004 for "Love One Another" in the Dance Music category.She then pulled a Kevin Van Der Perren by doing another concert gig - 200 performances over three years in Las Vegas.

….And then, of course, in 2010, there was Burlesque - how could one forget (as much as we'd like to )?

I think this list was all or partly voted on? That probably explains a huge amount of the It also HEAVILY favors more recent artists. I love love love Adele but should she honestly be in the top 5? A year ago most people I know didn't even know who she was. I realize both albums have been stellar and 21 is a masterpiece but I think it takes a bit longer than 2 albums to assert yourself in the top 20, much less the top 5. Nicki Minaj is another joke, she has had exactly 1 hit and makes the list at all, much less in the top 40. She benefits from being so current.

I think you're probably right (IIRC, in some of the previous "Greatest _____ of _____" lists, people (sheeple? ) vote on vh1's website to determine the list that artists and others in the music industry then vote from, but that doesn't explain how twunts like Miley Cyrus (and several others) ended up on the final list.

Call me cynical, but I also think there's another factor -- the almighty dollar. I'm pretty sure that vh1 receives massive amounts of $$$ from various record labels (not in the form of payola, unless that's become legal); but there are certainly other ways money can find its way into vh1's bank accounts.

[Cyn]

The most insulting thing about these lists is that they actually make the effort to pay sloppy lip service to legitimate artists like Kim Deal and Bjork.

bleh, it's VH1

IKR? Why isn't L7 on the list, either?

Oh well, at least they didn't include Four Non-Blondes (that god-awful song, What's Going On was an instant channel-changer for me when it was popular) or The Donnas (who seem to offer commentary on every freaking pop-culture show vh1 does )

[falling_dance]

Much as I love Sinead O'Connor and her amazing voice, her worldwide peak was 1990.

True. Perhaps I give her too many bonus points for "Fight the real enemy!"

Who is St. Vincent?

Annie Clark, formerly of the Polyphonic Spree. Actor is a wonderful album, though I see from the Wikipedia entry that it probably hasn't enjoyed much success outside of the US and UK (and only so much in the latter, anyway).

[Wyliefan]

I'm not disagreeing that Miranda Lambert is talented, Wyliefan. Her mainstream success was not until 2008 (her debut album from 2005, which was strictly in the Country music market, didn't go platinum till three years later, after the release of 2008's Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. You do realize that by saying that you'd move her up on the list simply because you like her (and take Faith Hill off the list because you don't) would make it about popularity rather than on talent alone.

Well, yes and no. It's true I'm pretty much basing it on my own preferences. But I think Miranda and Shania are talented. (Faith has talent, but she picks some of the stupidest, most overrated songs I've ever heard.)

Besides, I think we all agree that it's a pretty crappy list on the whole, so it's quite possible that basing changes on our own preferences could only improve it.

FTR, I cannot stand Shania Twain *or* Faith Hill, but I do recognize that they are talented artists who had an impact on the music industry by having several crossover hits. Male Country singers had done that for years, but women? That was a rarity.

You got me started thinking (and Googling) with that one. Actually, it's not that rare. Patsy Cline, Loretta Lynn, Crystal Gayle, Dolly Parton, Reba McEntire, LeAnn Rimes, and the Dixie Chicks have all had crossover success, along with Shania, Faith, Carrie, and Taylor. The women in country music seem to have just as much crossover success as the men, or maybe even more.

[Cachoo]

I think a best list from all of us would make more sense than this garbage. WHO was voting on this?

[PDilemma]

Why all the hating on Carrie Underwood? I must be out of touch as to what is good. Oh, wait, is it because she had the nerve to sing about Jesus?

Hey...I'm a churchgoing Catholic. I observe Lent. I do the whole thing. I have no problem with Jesus. But let's not cheapen him by singing about letting him drive the car. And, yes, I know it is supposed to be a metaphor. But it is an exceedingly badly done metaphor.

Also, I do not believe selling records and charting makes one talented or influential as an artist.

[Wyliefan]

Jesus caught and cleaned fish, spat in the dirt and made clay, and cast demons into pigs. I don't think driving a car would faze Him.

[PDilemma]

Jesus caught and cleaned fish, spat in the dirt and made clay, and cast demons into pigs. I don't think driving a car would faze Him.

But his metaphors and parables were well constructed. I think we owe him the respect of keeping ones about him well told.

That song is just maudlin and tacky. And "Before He Cheats" (thanks for the title) coming after it. Okay...let's just leap from "I want to live like Jesus is in control" to "Let's drink whiskey and vandalize property". That's the kind of message consistency you get when you can't write your own songs.

One of my least favorite In Style profiles ever was of Carrie Underwood in which she lamented the terrible hardship and stress of having to choose which free designer clothes to wear.

[BigB08822]

I am not a big Carrie Underwood fan because something about her voice grates on me but I could never deny her a place on the list. Even a very high placement. I genuinely like the music she has put out and she has been at the top of her genre for many years now with no end in sight. Her voice may wear on me but I can't deny her talent and the product she continues to put out.

[Wyliefan]

But his metaphors and parables were well constructed. I think we owe him the respect of keeping ones about him well told.

That song is just maudlin and tacky. And "Before He Cheats" (thanks for the title) coming after it. Okay...let's just leap from "I want to live like Jesus is in control" to "Let's drink whiskey and vandalize property". That's the kind of message consistency you get when you can't write your own songs.

I hear that a lot about various singers, and I've never understood it. A singer should no more have to sing from the same point of view all the time, or about the same subject all the time, than an actor should have to play the same character all the time.

I think Johnny Cash gave the quintessential demonstration of that when he released that three-CD set called Love, God, Murder.

[rjblue]

It is shocking that VH1 didn't have Allison Krauss on the list, and a bit surprising that no one here has noticed it yet. She is tied for second place for most Grammy awards (with 27) and even though the bulk of her work is in the Bluegrass field, she's certainly an important and honoured person in the music industry.

[PDilemma]

I hear that a lot about various singers, and I've never understood it. A singer should no more have to sing from the same point of view all the time, or about the same subject all the time, than an actor should have to play the same character all the time.

I think Johnny Cash gave the quintessential demonstration of that when he released that three-CD set called Love, God, Murder.

But Johnny Cash was talented and his songs had depth and an understanding of the complexity of life, emotion, and love.

If you really think that Carrie Underwood's paean to vandalism in bar parking lots has any depth, well, I don't know how to continue the discussion.

[Prancer]

But Johnny Cash was talented and his songs had depth and an understanding of the complexity of life, emotion, and love.

If you really think that Carrie Underwood's paean to vandalism in bar parking lots has any depth, well, I don't know how to continue the discussion.

But that's a different issue than message consistency.

[Wyliefan]

But that's a different issue than message consistency.

Precisely. The point at issue is simply whether any given singer should be able to sing about different things, not the relative quality of two singers' work.

It is shocking that VH1 didn't have Allison Krauss on the list, and a bit surprising that no one here has noticed it yet. She is tied for second place for most Grammy awards (with 27) and even though the bulk of her work is in the Bluegrass field, she's certainly an important and honoured person in the music industry.

Totally agree. I did think of mentioning her earlier when we were talking about crossover success, but I wasn't sure exactly how much crossover success she'd had. However, regardless of statistics, I think she is pretty well known and loved, and she should have been on there.

[BigB08822]

I agree completely. A singers messages is not at all the same as saying whether their songs have depth. Their songs may all have depth but be wildly inconsistent or a singer may have songs that are very cohesive but lack any kind of depth whatsoever. I don't even see why anyone would compare Jesus Take the Wheel to Before He Cheats since they didn't even come from the same albums. Does Carrie have to sing about Jesus for the rest of her career, now? Of course not. If I was an artist I would try to avoid wildly inconsistent songs on the same album but when you go on to another album 1-2 years later all is fair since you have changed a lot in that time. An example that comes to mind is when Katy Perry had two songs ready for her "One of the Boys" album. One was "I Kissed a Girl" and another was "I Do Not Hookup." She left of the latter as it made no sense coming up after singing a song about making out with a girl. Kelly Clarkson ended up with the song later and it was kinda a dud anyway, lol It was a smart move for Katy but if she had put that song on her next album I wouldn't see the issue, maybe she has grown up and is out of that phase of her life?

ETA: My mistake. JTTT and BHC were on the same album. I still don't see the issue, Christians go out to bars and get drunk all the time, don't they? Not enough of a problem, maybe if she sang a song all about dedicating your life to God and never drinking and never doing anything like that then I would see an issue in the messages.

[CantALoop]

Peaches and Le Tigre wuzrobbed, especially in light of all the overproduced bimbos Cyn highlighted