View Poll Results: Who is the greatest European singles male skater?

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  • John Curry

    42 20.39%
  • Robin Cousins

    7 3.40%
  • Alexei Yagudin

    74 35.92%
  • Evgeni Plushenko

    41 19.90%
  • Ilia Kulik

    5 2.43%
  • Viktor Petrenko

    1 0.49%
  • Stephane Lambiel

    27 13.11%
  • Alexei Urmanov

    2 0.97%
  • Brian Joubert

    4 1.94%
  • Alexander Fadeyev

    1 0.49%
  • Josef Sabovcek

    0 0%
  • Other

    2 0.97%
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    But it's a no-brainer for me-Yagudin, Yagudin, Yagudin. Then Curry, Lambiel, Dai....Yes, I always liked Joubert too, but I think for other reasons than his skating...
    Your honesty is appreciated.

    Yagudin for me too.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    Robin was a better jumper of course, and in terms of speed a better spinner with superb positions for the most part, although John's were even more refined. However John used speed for artistic reasons and when he wanted to could be just as fast as Robin, but he never felt compelled to skate everything flat out fast because it didn't suit his artistic vision. And to say that Robin's basics were far superior is just laughable. John was hardly scraping his way through gazillions of crossovers out there. It took incredible strength, skill and control of the edges to skate the way John did with such perfect body positions. And just because John lost to Kovalev in some free programs doesn't mean he actually should have lost to him or was outskated by him. Politics were fierce and often the result had nothing to do with what was actually skated.
    Why would politics be much more against Curry than Cousins though. They were both from the same country. I agree with your points, but still IMHO I just consider Cousins a superior all around free skater, as the judges did as well. He was basically all that Curry but with much more athletic and technical ability, dynamic quality, and personality, versatility and performance qualities on the ice. Toller Crantson also said he felt Cousins was a much stronger skater than Curry.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Why would politics be much more against Curry than Cousins though. They were both from the same country. I agree with your points, but still IMHO I just consider Cousins a superior all around free skater, as the judges did as well. He was basically all that Curry but with much more athletic and technical ability, dynamic quality, and personality, versatility and performance qualities on the ice. Toller Crantson also said he felt Cousins was a much stronger skater than Curry.
    The 1970 - 76 era was very different artistically than that of 1977 - 80. As was the overall skating presented by men competing at the highest level. Male skaters in the early 1970's were still pressured into certain rules of presentation and Curry's style broke all those rules (as did Toller's). Watch Toller skating in 1971 and he is a very different skater to the flamboyant artist he went on to become. He was accepted quicker than John because he was more consistent over the years leading to 1976 I think. But you only have to look at the 1976 Europeans where John skated just as flawlessly as in Innsbruck to see that politics were still against him.

    Carlo Fassi apparently did not want John to skate at the Europeans as there were 5 eastern European judges on the panel and he felt that a loss in Geneva would harm him politically in Innsbruck. But John did compete and only won because the czech judge (I think it was the czech judge) put Curry first over Kovalev and went against the Eastern bloc. He did not judge internationally again for 10 years .

    Once the floodgates had opened and John had won a major ISU title, it became easier for the judges to give John the marks he actually deserved and defend their decisions to their federations. There are many other instances where John should have placed ahead of Kovalev or indeed Jan Hoffmann in the free skating including 1973 Worlds and 1975 Europeans and Worlds.

    While I have no problem with you preferring Robin over John and can totally see why you would do so, I don't really understand why you make such sweeping statements based on nothing and that are absolutely untrue to justify your thoughts!

    Oh and I love Toller to bits but anything he ever said about John was coloured by the very dysfunctional relationship they endured.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    these polls always mean whatever you want then to.

    If we go by your very astute observation of standards: titles+record+skills+influence=greatest, then gilles graftstrum would be ducking it out with ulrick salchow, but they're not even listed as options (other than "other").

    Given that yags is winning while plushy and lambiel duke it out for bronze, I'd say most people vote by "I wasn't even born yet in 98, so I'll just vote for my favorite"
    Or they just genuinely feel that they are the greatest I had a huge crush on Yagudin's skating when I was a teenager during his prime, but I subsequently found my true and undying love in Lambiel's skating

  5. #45
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    Dick Button. Only Euro to win a U.S. National title!

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Dick Button. Only Euro to win a U.S. National title!
    You mean he´s the only American to win a medal at European Championships.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    You mean he´s the only American to win a medal at European Championships.
    You mean he´s the only American to win a title at European Championships.
    Gretchen Merrill took silver in ladies in 47

  8. #48
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    I voted for Alexei Yagudin.
    He is the best.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    You mean he´s the only American to win a title at European Championships.
    Gretchen Merrill took silver in ladies in 47
    Sorry, I forgot about Gretchen Merrill.

  10. #50
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    The one and only - Yags without a doubt.

    And honorable mentions for Plushenko and Joubert, for perseverance and consistency.

  11. #51
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    The most interesting and original and that's why the greatest are Lambiel and Curry.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    Sorry, I forgot about Gretchen Merrill.
    That's ok, I forgot that marbel Vinson took the bronze in 1934 too!

  13. #53
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    John Curry my favorite ever
    Alexei Yagudin
    Stephane Lambiel

    I like Robin Cousins but I didn't watch that much of his skating (1980 programs and some pros programs).

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    Robin was a better jumper of course, and in terms of speed a better spinner with superb positions for the most part, although John's were even more refined. However John used speed for artistic reasons and when he wanted to could be just as fast as Robin, but he never felt compelled to skate everything flat out fast because it didn't suit his artistic vision. And to say that Robin's basics were far superior is just laughable. John was hardly scraping his way through gazillions of crossovers out there. It took incredible strength, skill and control of the edges to skate the way John did with such perfect body positions.

    ITA. I just rewatched some of Robin’s programs (and John’s) and I was surprised how much Robin telegraphed his jumps. A full rink of crossovers for a double or a 3R! (and his stroking was kind of ugly).
    Yes, Robin was the better jumper and had superb spins but no way he was that much better than John or better than all the other guys combined, as someone said.
    I’d love to find out why people think that Robin was so much better .

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by theshrew View Post
    I’d love to find out why people think that Robin was so much better .
    "people"? Are you trying to insinuate that judgejudy has multiple personalities?

  16. #56
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    Curry, Cousins and Lambiel.

    As great as their jumps were, the Russians weren't really in the same league skating wise.

  17. #57
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    I have to say Plushenko, mostly because of his ability to compete at a high level for so long. He has three Olympic medals now, and could get a fourth at the next Olympics! I'm not really a fan of him personally, but I can't deny he's great.

  18. #58
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    Ilia Kulik anyone?

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Ilia Kulik anyone?
    Definitely very talented, athletic, artistic, even at a young age, and even better as a pro.

  20. #60

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    I voted for Yagudin. He had it all - great athleticism and great artistry. Kulik and Cousins would be my next top picks.

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