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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I think part of the problem may be the way COP is designed. It does not give enough credit for the finer points, but gives a lot of points for the big elements (jumps and throws). If C&D's PCS were comparable with B&L's (I did not notice that) that is indeed laughable. The Zhangs always got away with poor lines, unison, spins, positions (particularly on the lifts) because they had big throws and at least early in their career they used to land the jumps consistently. Of all the FS disciplines, pairs lost the most, IMO, by the changeover to COP.
    COP is horrible for pairs. As awful as it is to say a program like M&D's at the Albertville Olympics wouldnt even score well under COP with the missed solo jumps, the simpler lifts, and the well done but smaller throws, especialy with Russian federation now weak politically these days, even though it is plainly obvious it would deserve an extremely high score under any system. There is no attention to the finer points, but also no attentiont to things like the chemistry between partners, and the overall magic of ones performances level or program, which is essential to pairs, but dont fit anywhere under "skating skills" or "transitions" really (not that they bother even deducting from teams with poor skating skills or lack of transitions either).

    The scoring of many individual elements is too easy to loophole around too and not reflective of true quality. For instance a team like Totmianina & Marinin, as much as I like them and think they fully deserved their 2006 Oly Gold, should not be getting all top possible level grades of difficulty with high GOE for their lifts, which happened in Turin and most competitions they were in. They fulfill the requirements set by the code. Even though I dont really like Brasseur & Eisler their lifts were some of the best ever, and far more difficult and superior to T&M. Yet under COP the best they could do is be graded as the same difficulty of all of T&M's lifts. That is an example of a major COP flaw in pairs. There are so many others. The difficulty and originality of some moves, like the lifts, can not be properly graded by fulfilling a set of rules.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 02-20-2012 at 05:53 AM.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post

    The scoring of many individual elements is too easy to loophole around too and not reflective of true quality. For instance a team like Totmianina & Marinin, as much as I like them and think they fully deserved their 2006 Oly Gold, should not be getting all top possible level grades of difficulty with high GOE for their lifts, which happened in Turin and most competitions they were in. They fulfill the requirements set by the code. Even though I dont really like Brasseur & Eisler their lifts were some of the best ever, and far more difficult and superior to T&M. Yet under COP the best they could do is be graded as the same difficulty of all of T&M's lifts. That is an example of a major COP flaw in pairs. There are so many others. The difficulty and originality of some moves, like the lifts, can not be properly graded by fulfilling a set of rules.
    ITA about the lifts. Brasseur & Eisler, who I never cared for, had some of the best lifts in pairs skating, but never got enough credit for them. They never competed under COP so it's hard to compare them with T&M, but B&E's lifts were far superior to T&M's (although T&M's unison on jumps, their landings on the throws were among the best in both scoring systems, IMO).

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    The problem is the judges seem almost blind to C&D's flaws and give them inflated scores inspite of them. They have received PCS on par with a teams like Barazova & Larinov this year which is laughable. I shudder to think the PCS the judges will give them if they improve just a bit (but are still in the truck drivers category). Sui & Han are another team grossly overscored on PCS. Unlike C&D I see alot of potential in them, but alot of work to be done, and I fear with the judges scoring them far too high so young they will become like the Zhangs, were they wont start improving until it is too late (and only when the judges begin scoring them fairly after many years of overscoring but still never reaching the top of a major podium). Why work on improving when the judges tell you that you dont need to.
    I totally agree! The judges are giving S/H and D/C PCS scores they have not yet earned.

    E/L can easily get on top with better choreography and landing those jumps. They are by far the most aesthetically pleasing pair. They shouldn't have any trouble getting ahead of either of the two pairs. Anyone can win and anyone can be beaten.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    I totally agree! The judges are giving S/H and D/C PCS scores they have not yet earned.

    E/L can easily get on top with better choreography and landing those jumps. They are by far the most aesthetically pleasing pair. They shouldn't have any trouble getting ahead of either of the two pairs. Anyone can win and anyone can be beaten.
    I hate to be a pessimist, but I doubt at this point that Amanda will ever become solid on the SBS jumps. That will hold them behind D/C and M/B on the national front.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    I totally agree! The judges are giving S/H and D/C PCS scores they have not yet earned.

    E/L can easily get on top with better choreography and landing those jumps. They are by far the most aesthetically pleasing pair. They shouldn't have any trouble getting ahead of either of the two pairs. Anyone can win and anyone can be beaten.
    Unfortunately, with the COP, I am afraid that S&H and D&C will continue to get high PCS scores, which defies logic, IMO. E&L will have to not only land the jumps but look more confident in their execution of jumps and throws. They may be the pairs version of Alissa Czisny. Even when they land the jumps, it is not with authority, and that's likely to hurt their PCS scores. They have been around a long time, and that's why I am afraid it may be too late for them to really climb up. I hope I am wrong.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Unfortunately, with the COP, I am afraid that S&H and D&C will continue to get high PCS scores, which defies logic, IMO. E&L will have to not only land the jumps but look more confident in their execution of jumps and throws. They may be the pairs version of Alissa Czisny. Even when they land the jumps, it is not with authority, and that's likely to hurt their PCS scores. They have been around a long time, and that's why I am afraid it may be too late for them to really climb up. I hope I am wrong.
    I think they land the throws with authority. Amanda just seems to lack confidence in her sbs. She has it in her. She hit them at the Olympics. Internationally their PCS scores improved this year, but I think D/C and M/B will probably be pushed more. I do think they may be able to pull a 'Ryan Bradley' and win a national title as there is a lot of support for them, especially stateside, but I am not sure about their chances internationally anymore.

  7. #27
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    Anyone know why Evora and her boyfriend split after nationals?

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by lclevers View Post
    Anyone know why Evora and her boyfriend split after nationals?
    She broke up with her fiance before Nationals and I don't think either has gone public with the reason for the breakup.
    "If people are looking for guarantees, they should buy appliances at Sears and stay away from human relationships."~Prancer

  9. #29

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    Is anyone attending "Skate into Spring" at the Ellenton, Florida rink this Saturday (Feb. 25) at 5 pm or 7 pm? I believe Mark Ladwig is producing this year's show and hopefully it will be a great success!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by carriemarie View Post
    I think they land the throws with authority. Amanda just seems to lack confidence in her sbs. She has it in her. She hit them at the Olympics. Internationally their PCS scores improved this year, but I think D/C and M/B will probably be pushed more. I do think they may be able to pull a 'Ryan Bradley' and win a national title as there is a lot of support for them, especially stateside, but I am not sure about their chances internationally anymore.
    I agree, they have landed plenty of throws very solidly in recent years, and they are one of the few teams that does both the throw 3Lutz/flip and loop in the LP. I saw glimpses of hope in Amanda's jumping in '10-'11, but this past year she really struggled... The underrotations are more of a concern, I feel, than any falls. I'm wondering if the pressure that built for them this year (as the other top US pairs split, they may have thought of themselves as more of the "favorite" for Nationals) made her more tentative. During the skates when she doesn't UR, they seem to score well, but she really has been plagued by URs in most years. I think she is at least capable of jumping a little better than she showed this season, and I hope that whenever they do decide to stop, it will be after a strong skate that makes them proud.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    I agree, they have landed plenty of throws very solidly in recent years, and they are one of the few teams that does both the throw 3Lutz/flip and loop in the LP. I saw glimpses of hope in Amanda's jumping in '10-'11, but this past year she really struggled... The underrotations are more of a concern, I feel, than any falls. I'm wondering if the pressure that built for them this year (as the other top US pairs split, they may have thought of themselves as more of the "favorite" for Nationals) made her more tentative. During the skates when she doesn't UR, they seem to score well, but she really has been plagued by URs in most years. I think she is at least capable of jumping a little better than she showed this season, and I hope that whenever they do decide to stop, it will be after a strong skate that makes them proud.
    She is plagued by UR's and she doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. I was at Four Continents and although her toe was two footed and they had a sbs step out it was fully rotated, IMO and she didn't get credit. Their throws are very consistent and their pair elements are great, so I hope they continue and Amanda shows what she can do.

  12. #32

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    Tampa Bay (Florida) ABC local morning news talks with Olympic Pairs Figure Skaters Mark Ladwig and Amanda Evora, who are putting on their first ice show in Ellenton, Florida today (2/25):
    http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/new...ow-in-ellenton
    Last edited by Sylvia; 02-25-2012 at 07:38 PM.

  13. #33

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    Some photos from the "Skate into Spring" show held in Ellenton, FL last Saturday (produced by Mark Ladwig): http://web.icenetwork.com/gen/photog...f26892752.html

  14. #34
    Go Team SW Florida! =)
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    Thanks Sylvia!
    An MLB.com reporter asked what one thing Votto couldn’t do. “I can’t skate or play hockey,” Votto said. “Well, I can skate ... but I can’t stop.”

    "I guess I'm just...I'm not used to someone putting me first." -Emma, Once Upon a Time, episode 2x3, Lady of the Lake

  15. #35

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    There's no news yet about their future plans beyond this season, but here is a nice hometown article that was published today: Moorhead Olympian Ladwig returns with partner Evora to headline city’s ice show
    Ladwig, who called Moorhead home for the first 19 years of his life, will be performing with his pairs figure skating partner Amanda Evora at the Moorhead Ice Show at 7 tonight [Friday] and Saturday and at 1 p.m. Sunday at the Moorhead Sports Center.
    ...
    The pair will perform two of their exhibition routines set to Barbra Streisand’s “As If I Never Said Goodbye” and Gloria Gaynor’s “I Will Survive.”

    “We’re first alternates for Worlds, which is a week after the ice show,” Ladwig said, referring to the World Figure Skating Championships set for March 26 in Nice, France. “We’re using the ice show as a training tool in case we get the call to compete at Worlds. You never know, but if I’m not at Worlds, there is no place I’d rather be than in my hometown skating.”
    Info on this weekend's show in Moorhead, Minnesota (near Fargo, North Dakota) is also posted in the "Club & Benefit Ice Shows" thread in GSD: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=82936

  16. #36

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    I really like E/L but I would be majorly surprised to see them in Sochi, even as the US's #3. OTOH, I don't consider D/C a shoo-in either for the Oly team either. They remind me of teams like Scott/Dulebohn & Urbanski/Marvel, teams that for a time were America's best but not impressive on the world stage.

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