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  1. #1
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    The future of Evora/Ladwig

    With their 3rd place finish and jump consistency problems all season I wonder what the future holds for this team. I wonder if they will retire before 2014 or plan on attempting to make the olympic team. Thoughts?

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    In another thread, it was posted that they talked about training until Sochi in their post-Nats interview [I hope I'm remembering that correctly]. I hope so. They need to go out on a high(er) note.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    In another thread, it was posted that they talked about training until Sochi in their post-Nats interview [I hope I'm remembering that correctly]. I hope so. They need to go out on a high(er) note.
    They are beautiful skaters in every way--- but jump inconsistency has plagued them for years. If they make their jumps they score well-- as they should. But alas, skating life is plagued with disappointments if the jumps aren't there-- and with this couple, failure in this aspect comes all too frequently. Even so, I wish them well.

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    While I hope that they continue for another year at least to end their career on a better note, but the reality is they have been doing this together for ten years and another year of training is a huge commitment. Mark has a family and Amanda has a degree, so they have post-skating options. The thing about them is that Amanda can land those jumps. I have seen her do them numerous times in practice. It feels like she has just lost confidence in the jumps during competition. Anyhow, I feel like they will give at least one more year. They are already half way through the quad, but best of luck to them regardless of their decision. They just have to do what's best for both of them.
    And it's no shame having five national medals and being Olympians They will be missed if they retire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeedward View Post
    They are beautiful skaters in every way--- but jump inconsistency has plagued them for years. If they make their jumps they score well-- as they should. But alas, skating life is plagued with disappointments if the jumps aren't there-- and with this couple, failure in this aspect comes all too frequently. Even so, I wish them well.
    ^
    This!

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    I've loved Evora/ Ladwig for many years. I did not find them as compelling to watch this season, but their lifts as always remain consistent, difficult and gorgeous. I don't know if it was discussed in other threads, but I thought Bezic's comment that Amanda was just "too nice" as being a reason why she struggled with her jumps was Amanda would never have gotten this far in skating if she did not have talent, drive and athletic toughness. There may be a psychological, physical or mechanical limitation that can be overcome. But yes, they are an older team which makes things more difficult overall. I do wish E/L all the best no matter what they decide. Niceness has nothing to do with not being able to land a jump.

    Can't stand listening to Bezic/ Hamilton crew anymore. Not even Terry G can help their awful commentating.

    Johnny's excellent commentary for icenetwork during the men's competition, to me further highlights the weaknesses of NBC's entrenched Scott and Sandra.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Niceness has nothing to do with not being able to land a jump.
    This. You can be either nice or mean, and still have problems with jumps.

    I do hope they stick around (I'm a fan), but I especially hope they do what's best for them.

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    I think that Evora & Ladwig should stick around as long as they want, as long as they're loving what they're doing and feel they have more to give to the sport. However, I think that realistically, if they hope to go to Sochi, they should be rooting for Denney/Coughlin and Marley/Brubaker to finish 6th and 7th at 2013 Worlds to qualify three teams for the Olympics. (Hey, it could happen....)

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    Quote Originally Posted by legjumper View Post
    However, I think that realistically, if they hope to go to Sochi, they should be rooting for Denney/Coughlin and Marley/Brubaker to finish 6th and 7th at 2013 Worlds to qualify three teams for the Olympics. (Hey, it could happen....)
    A month ago I never would have even thought this a remote possibility, but when Skate Canada basically ditched Moore-Towers/Moscovitch for one poor showing all season at Nationals in favor of the unseasoned Dube/Wolfe, the landscape certainly changed for the Canadian pairs World team. I still think 4CC was a fluke for Duhamel/Radford though; any other competition they have easily finished ahead of both American teams and their performances at Canadian Nationals, particularly the LP, could easily have them top 5, maybe even bronze contenders at Worlds. Kirsten and Dylan normally could easily finish ahead of both American teams too. I certainly could not picture either of the American teams finishing top 5 in the World right now though, unless some really bizarre things were to happen and they were to skate phenomenal personal bests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    A month ago I never would have even thought this a remote possibility, but when Skate Canada basically ditched Moore-Towers/Moscovitch for one poor showing all season at Nationals in favor of the unseasoned Dube/Wolfe, the landscape certainly changed for the Canadian pairs World team. I still think 4CC was a fluke for Duhamel/Radford though; any other competition they have easily finished ahead of both American teams and their performances at Canadian Nationals, particularly the LP, could easily have them top 5, maybe even bronze contenders at Worlds. Kirsten and Dylan normally could easily finish ahead of both American teams too. I certainly could not picture either of the American teams finishing top 5 in the World right now though, unless some really bizarre things were to happen and they were to skate phenomenal personal bests.
    Most of what you say is true. But, last year Y/C beat D/R in the final standings at Worlds. I realize that Y/C and D/C are 2 different teams but it was the same situation last season where the CAN teams were ranked ahead of Y/C through til '11 4CC's. It was probable that D/R or MT/M would beat them at Worlds, but it didn't happen that way.

    I still generally agree with you, but I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me if an American team finished ahead of D/R on the World stage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Most of what you say is true. But, last year Y/C beat D/R in the final standings at Worlds. I realize that Y/C and D/C are 2 different teams but it was the same situation last season where the CAN teams were ranked ahead of Y/C through til '11 4CC's. It was probable that D/R or MT/M would beat them at Worlds, but it didn't happen that way.

    I still generally agree with you, but I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me if an American team finished ahead of D/R on the World stage.
    Yeah, that's where the bizarre things happening I eluded to in my post comes into play; who would have ever thought that Meghan would have broken Eric's nose coming down from the split 3 twist in the SP? That incident clearly and understandably rattled Duhamel/Radford at Worlds last season. And yes, Denney is in no way comparable to Yankowskas and her exquisitely beautiful lines and posture. Anyway, I fully expect all 3 Russian pairs representatives, both Chinese pairs representatives, Savchenko/Szolkowy, and Duhamel/Radford will finish ahead of both American teams barring the unexpected. The Americans are expected to be staying alive among the ranks of Takahashi (a shame she has so many jump inconsistencies; otherwise, they'd be a top 5 team)/Tran, the Italians, Dube/Wolfe, and others.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 02-20-2012 at 01:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by legjumper View Post
    I think that Evora & Ladwig should stick around as long as they want, as long as they're loving what they're doing and feel they have more to give to the sport. However, I think that realistically, if they hope to go to Sochi, they should be rooting for Denney/Coughlin and Marley/Brubaker to finish 6th and 7th at 2013 Worlds to qualify three teams for the Olympics. (Hey, it could happen....)
    But 2013 Worlds is being held in Canada.

    Getting back to Evora/Ladwig ... in their immediate future are the 2 "Skate into Spring" shows at their Ellenton, Florida rink on Saturday, February 25 - more info: http://ellentonice.com/ice-news/123-...sports-complex
    Last edited by Sylvia; 02-19-2012 at 04:33 PM.

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    Evora/Ladwig, remind me of Kavaguti/Smirnov
    veterans but if they hold on together for many more seasons, I believe they can still get that top us pairs spot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    Evora/Ladwig, remind me of Kavaguti/Smirnov
    veterans but if they hold on together for many more seasons, I believe they can still get that top us pairs spot.
    Sorry, but i have to disagree with you on both. I don't see K&S beating V&T at this point. However, if V&T have a bad day, K&S could win. As much as I like K&S, at this point their best hope is for a world bronze.

    I don't see E&L beating the current top two US pairs, even though E&L are a better pair overall. They have always struggled with the jumps and I don't see how that could change. If it's just nerves, it can be fixed. If it's technique, it's too late to fix that. Sadly E&L's hope at this point is for a US bronze.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Sorry, but i have to disagree with you on both. I don't see K&S beating V&T at this point. However, if V&T have a bad day, K&S could win. As much as I like K&S, at this point their best hope is for a world bronze.

    I don't see E&L beating the current top two US pairs, even though E&L are a better pair overall. They have always struggled with the jumps and I don't see how that could change. If it's just nerves, it can be fixed. If it's technique, it's too late to fix that. Sadly E&L's hope at this point is for a US bronze.
    K&S were no.1 pair in russia before V&T and they achieved that. K&S had jump troubles even their throws but now they have improved.

    if its technique its not yet that too late, 3 more seasons if they can regroup they can still outskate M/B although not C/D

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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    K&S were no.1 pair in russia before V&T and they achieved that. K&S had jump troubles even their throws but now they have improved.

    if its technique its not yet that too late, 3 more seasons if they can regroup they can still outskate M/B although not C/D
    Actually C&D are very beatable. They have nothing but the landings of the jumps and throws. When M&B develop, they will beat them, with a more complete program, and that could happen as early as the next US nationals. For the future of pairs skating in the USA, I hope that M&B will be the model, and not C&D who are pedestrian skaters as a pair. My feeling is that E&L have reached their potential and they cannot improve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    K&S were no.1 pair in russia before V&T and they achieved that. K&S had jump troubles even their throws but now they have improved.

    if its technique its not yet that too late, 3 more seasons if they can regroup they can still outskate M/B although not C/D
    I disagree that a clean E/L couldn't beat the current top US teams. They are better pair skaters with pairs skating elements period. If they hit their jumps they should be able to beat both. They beat a clean Denney/Barrett fairly handily with an okay skate in Nationals in 2011. And I believe D/B were far superior team to D/C at this point. My bottom line is, if anyone would have told me E/L would have made the Olympic team in 2010 with a good, but not perfect skate, I would have laughed in your face. Rena and john were halfway decent that year and I thought they had it in the bag. So I wouldn't count them out yet if they decide to keep going. Another year, another pair champ at Nationals is my saying and this may be the same this year. Besides, Rockne and Keauna were going to be the next big thing and a shoe in for the Olympics (to the point of actually making arragements in Vancouver for housing pre-Nationals) and looked what happened. Ice is slippery and I don't see M/B as being the future of US pairs in which we make it to the top tier on the world level. Anything can happen in two years in Pairs and who knows who will get injured, retire, or breakup. Putting all our eggs in the D/C and MM/RB seems a little premature. It's not like E/L were seventh at Nationals this year. And as much as I like Donlan/Speroff, I think Zhang/Bartholomay and Haven/Frazier show more future promise.
    Last edited by carriemarie; 02-20-2012 at 12:20 AM.

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    The reason I am not holding out hope for E&L at this point is that even though they are the better pair overall, the inability to land jumps is going to make it difficult for them to be in 1st or 2nd place. They could have one good performance in them, but I don't see it happening on a consistent basis. It's disappointing but that's how it appears to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Actually C&D are very beatable. They have nothing but the landings of the jumps and throws. When M&B develop, they will beat them, with a more complete program, and that could happen as early as the next US nationals. For the future of pairs skating in the USA, I hope that M&B will be the model, and not C&D who are pedestrian skaters as a pair. My feeling is that E&L have reached their potential and they cannot improve.
    The problem is the judges seem almost blind to C&D's flaws and give them inflated scores inspite of them. They have received PCS on par with a teams like Barazova & Larinov this year which is laughable. I shudder to think the PCS the judges will give them if they improve just a bit (but are still in the truck drivers category). Sui & Han are another team grossly overscored on PCS. Unlike C&D I see alot of potential in them, but alot of work to be done, and I fear with the judges scoring them far too high so young they will become like the Zhangs, were they wont start improving until it is too late (and only when the judges begin scoring them fairly after many years of overscoring but still never reaching the top of a major podium). Why work on improving when the judges tell you that you dont need to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    The problem is the judges seem almost blind to C&D's flaws and give them inflated scores inspite of them. They have received PCS on par with a teams like Barazova & Larinov this year which is laughable. I shudder to think the PCS the judges will give them if they improve just a bit (but are still in the truck drivers category). Sui & Han are another team grossly overscored on PCS. Unlike C&D I see alot of potential in them, but alot of work to be done, and I fear with the judges scoring them far too high so young they will become like the Zhangs, were they wont start improving until it is too late (and only when the judges begin scoring them fairly after many years of overscoring but still never reaching the top of a major podium). Why work on improving when the judges tell you that you dont need to.
    I think part of the problem may be the way COP is designed. It does not give enough credit for the finer points, but gives a lot of points for the big elements (jumps and throws). If C&D's PCS were comparable with B&L's (I did not notice that) that is indeed laughable. The Zhangs always got away with poor lines, unison, spins, positions (particularly on the lifts) because they had big throws and at least early in their career they used to land the jumps consistently. I think S&H won't stop developing because they are getting high marks, but they are not likely to develop the things I value so much- lines and posture, unison, beautiful lifts, and musicality. They don't get points for being pretty, and as a viewer I feel robbed when I see ugly positions winning over beautiful ones. Of all the FS disciplines, pairs lost the most, IMO, by the changeover to COP.

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