Fixing the Canadian Ladies Program

[alilou]

And if she hasn't learnt to compete by now, it's unlikely she ever will. Too bad. She's not a great skater, but she is a good one. If she was also a good competitor she'd probably do quite well.

[bek]

Not many. And almost all train with Orser who IMO is the only effective coach for the ladies. I would have even encouraged Joannie to have left her coach years ago. Joannie needed a triple triple and wasn't getting it. You can blame Joannie sure but I just think that there is a huge coaching problem with women in Canada. I think a lot of it is psychological, but I think they also wait way to late to work on difficult jumps. They aren't pushed enough IMO. But that may have to do with money and sponsorship. Regardless the women have been in serious trouble for over twenty years when the other three disciplines have done quite well.

I'm sorry but I don't think is right to call a coach who trained a skater to the World and Olympic podium as "uneffective" Yes maybe Joannie needed a harder 3/3 she kind of came up in a different time though and was one of the few if only top skaters who had all of her triples. If she had stuck around she could have been a world champ. Orser wasn't even a coach for most of Rochette's career and by the time he stared he was already coaching her competitor.

[hohoho]

Canadian ladies have not had to compete at a high level in the past years because they did not have too. I think they only looked inside Canada and practiced/skated based on what they needed to excel in Canada. Hopefully the next group do not look at Phaneuf/Lacoste as the ones to beat. Hopefully they look at the top 5-10 in the world to help with their desire to succeed.

[Seerek]

And if she hasn't learnt to compete by now, it's unlikely she ever will. Too bad. She's not a great skater, but she is a good one. If she was also a good competitor she'd probably do quite well.

Exactly - Amelie has enough technical content in her programs that if she had even just rotated everything planned with even minor -GOEs, she would finished somewhere like 7th or 8th at 2012 or even 2011 Worlds.

The problem is the kind of mistakes she tends to make are popping/doubling jump elements.

[sk8ingcoach]

Well i think she had made a promising start of the season after SLC. Hopefully she can improve on her performance and skate well at Skate Canada

[danafan]

Bumping this thread to include the link of Chartrand's SP from JGP Croatia today - she's in fourth place!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8icnz6XJ-c

[hohoho]

Good job. Haven't seen the protocols, but looks like the 3T and 3F will be downgraded.

[danafan]

The 3T was < and the 3F was <<

[Habs]

Bumping this up with the news that Myriane Samson announced her retirement this morning. Not at all surprised. I wish her well in her post-skating life.

[l'etoile]

Oh, what a sad news Wish her the best of luck in her future.

[Habs]

Link to Skate Canada's news release: Samson retires

[haribobo]

Canadian ladies have not had to compete at a high level in the past years because they did not have too. I think they only looked inside Canada and practiced/skated based on what they needed to excel in Canada.

I don't really buy this - why would that only happen in ladies and not in other disciplines? And why would a skater hold themselves back from doing better if they could? Najarro is just wildly consistent, Charbonneau is really tall now, Samson and Phaneuf had their injuries causing retirement, Szmiett looked promising for a while and totally fizzled out...it happens. I think its just a lot of bad luck, maybe some inferior coaching, inferior talent, or a mixture of both. And not enough spreading the wealth with assignments as well. There's some good talent coming up with Daleman, Seguin, and Chartrand, and I've seen potential in a few of the others also, but we'll see what happens. I'm glad there's finally some turnaround happening- there was a pretty talented skater for a few years named Dallas Daniel who could've really gone somewhere but she always seemed to finish just 1 spot too low at Nationals, and the skaters who finished just above her and got assigned to stuff didn't end up doing well at all (thinking Desanctis, Najarro, Grenier, Samson, Duhamel did ok but then went into pairs, etc) - then she retired, what a shame. Talent like that should have been nurtured somehow a little more- who would it have killed to send her to Nebelhorn? Anyway, 3rd place at Nationals should really be up for grabs this year and it will be a great opportunity for whoever gets the 3rd spot to 4CC.

[Spazactaz]

^Dallas didn't retire... she was out due to injury. I'm pretty sure she'll be competing at Sectionals this weekend. She competed a few weeks ago but didn't do very well... no triples or anything. Hoping she can qualify for the Challenge though!

[MysticHaze]

After searching the twitterverse it seems as though Alexe Gilles has advanced to the Skate Canada Challenge next month! She was in 2nd after the short but cant find the final results.

[danafan]

After searching the twitterverse it seems as though Alexe Gilles has advanced to the Skate Canada Challenge next month! She was in 2nd after the short but cant find the final results.

The full results never got updated but here's the full protocol:

http://www.skatecanada-centralontari...02013/swde.pdf

Giouzelin Mutlu was the story here, attempting six triples in her free skate. I hope she makes nationals and the JGP next year.

ETA she wants to skate pairs:

http://icepartnersearch.com/showbio.php?i=4043

[mag]

Just a little extra info ... Eri Nishimura (1st after the short) and Kelsey McNell (4th after the short) are both former Jr. National Champions.

[chantilly]

I'm sorry but I don't think is right to call a coach who trained a skater to the World and Olympic podium as "uneffective" Yes maybe Joannie needed a harder 3/3 she kind of came up in a different time though and was one of the few if only top skaters who had all of her triples. If she had stuck around she could have been a world champ. Orser wasn't even a coach for most of Rochette's career and by the time he stared he was already coaching her competitor.

Perhaps I was a little unfair to Joannie's coach. She did help her rework her jumps to skate them and do them cleanly after her initial issues early in her career. But after that she was skating better but still not as well as she could. The Olympic year was probably her best year but even some argued she didn't deserve the bronze. I disagree. I thought her program was better and I am pretty sure Zhang UR some jumps. However, I still think even Joannie could have given more. And I am not sure why she had consistent problems going completely clean in her programs or landing a triple triple. But I find that there has always been a psychological issue with ladies skating in Canada. As well as confidence and attack. I attribute that a lot to the coaches and probably the CFSA

[The Accordion]

As I was falling asleep last night I was thinking about this thread and how - for the first time in a while we might have to think about fixing Men's skating in Canada.

There is Patrick Chan - and then IMO a big step down. Kevin Reynolds showed promise - but whether it is his body / his head / his coach - he can't seem to make a permanent step up. I do admire that he keeps going for the quads - but they don't seem to be improving too much. He has worked on his presentation - but it is still far below the top men in the world.

There have been other promising skaters along the way - Jeremy Ten, Elladj Balde, Liam Firus, Andrei Rogozine etc. but no one who seems ready to step into the top group in the world.

Perhaps it is just that we have been spoiled in my lifetime of skating - with kind of skating version of lighting the next cigarette with the previous one
Toller Cranston - Brian Pockar - Brian Orser - Kurt Browning - Elvis Stojko - (a bit of a blip but still such potential and always the hopeless hopers with Sandhu) - Jeff Buttle - Patrick Chan.

But who next?

[PeterG]

But who next?

I am pretty busy these days. But I will think about it and get back to you.

[manhn]

For one, I don't think Chan's retirement after 2014 is as certain as it is for V&M. Chan can still fill that void in the same way Stojko did during the 98-02 era.

And while it's all still potential, hopefully at least one of Firus, Rogozine, Nguyen, and Mitchell can really step up.