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  1. #81

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    Reposting from the Challenge Cup thread in Kiss and Cry:
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    Great to see Gabrielle Daleman do well here, very good score considering that she missed the lutz today. Skate Canada better use all of its ladies' spots on the Junior GP, as there are a lot of talented ladies that need to get out there - Osmond (if she doesn't do senior GP), Daleman, Alaine Chartrand, Jayda Jurome, Julianne Seguin, plus who knows who will show up with big improvements after the summer.
    Yes, positive news for Daleman who won the silver medal in Junior Ladies (85.42 in FS, 132.48 total score) and she rotated the 3Lz (-1 GOE) in the SP.

  2. #82
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    With regards to Erin's post

    Skate Canada has always filled their ladies slots over the years. They have never had max JGP slots ( they only had 4 this year )

    It is true that SC has left mens, dance and pairs slots blank over the years but they never could do this with the ladies.

    Where SC has gone wrong is staying with perennial failures for several seasons. Skaters like Kang, Grenier and Najarro got a lot of JGP assignments with no good results. These skaters got 3 or 4 good seasons of JGP experience each without a single solid result from any of them.

    In previous seasons , it could be argued that the younger talent did not step up over the summer so that these older veterans who usually skated well at nationals but consistently failed internationally would get the assignments by default.

    This season however, SC made a big mistake in sendiing Najarro when there were in fact younger ladies ( Daleman for example ) who did step up in the summer and did show readiness for the JGP.

    In the 2012 JGP season Canada will have six slots. Since Charbonneau and Najarro have aged out, we can look forward to a bunch of exciting new faces.
    Last edited by nadioso; 03-27-2012 at 09:56 PM.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by nadioso View Post
    With regards to Erin's post

    In the 2012 JGP season Canada will have six slots. Since Charbonneau and Najarro have aged out, we can look forward to a bunch of exciting new faces.
    who does everyone expect to see filling the 6 spots? I see (ok, I'd like to see)
    2 x - Daleman
    1 x - Seguin
    1 x - Jurome
    1 x - Chartrand (I hope!)
    1 x - Mallet or Rheault, depending on who has the 3 Flip (required SP jump)

    I'd like to see them send Dunley, but it wont happen.

    At the same time, I can still see them sending Purich out too.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by fan View Post
    who does everyone expect to see filling the 6 spots? I see (ok, I'd like to see)
    2 x - Daleman
    1 x - Seguin
    1 x - Jurome
    1 x - Chartrand (I hope!)
    1 x - Mallet or Rheault, depending on who has the 3 Flip (required SP jump)

    I'd like to see them send Dunley, but it wont happen.

    At the same time, I can still see them sending Purich out too.

    I will be curious to see if Kaetlyn Osmond competes as a junior or a senior next year.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by fan View Post
    who does everyone expect to see filling the 6 spots? I see (ok, I'd like to see)
    2 x - Daleman
    1 x - Seguin
    1 x - Jurome
    1 x - Chartrand (I hope!)
    1 x - Mallet or Rheault, depending on who has the 3 Flip (required SP jump)

    I'd like to see them send Dunley, but it wont happen.

    At the same time, I can still see them sending Purich out too.
    Mallet only has the next season where she can do JGP and she still has not gone past the triple toe , triple salchow stage. She turns 18 this June. So unless she shows tremendous improvement, giving her a JGP is not sound strategy.

    Rheault turns 17 this April and the triple toe is her only reliable triple.

    I would rather see Dunley get one than either Mallet or Rheault. She has far more upside ( consistent toe and salchow and has 4 JGP seasons left ).I

    Unfortunately Rheault and Mallet are high on SC's radar ( they were both listed as substitutes for the JGP last season ) when the far more impressive ( and much younger ) Daleman did not even get considered.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by nadioso View Post
    With regards to Erin's post

    Skate Canada has always filled their ladies slots over the years. They have never had max JGP slots ( they only had 4 this year )

    It is true that SC has left mens, dance and pairs slots blank over the years but they never could do this with the ladies.
    Given how many spots SC left blank last year in other disciplines, I would never assume they will use all the slots.

    I'm pretty sure we have max JGP slots in ladies at least once - for sure after Rochette was 5th (behind only Japanese and American skaters) at Jr. Worlds. I also think we were first in line to pick up extra spots after Charbonneau was 6th at Jr. Worlds, but chose not to use them. Plus, we should be taking more advantage of events like Triglav, Challenge Cup (I'm glad Daleman was sent this year at least), and other spring internationals.

    Where SC has gone wrong is staying with perennial failures for several seasons. Skaters like Kang, Grenier and Najarro got a lot of JGP assignments with no good results. These skaters got 3 or 4 good seasons of JGP experience each without a single solid result from any of them.
    I agree that this has been an big issue. With only 4 slots this past year, I can somewhat understand the challenge for SC, but I think that after Najarro's bomb at Jr. Worlds, she really didn't need another chance.

    In the 2012 JGP season Canada will have six slots. Since Charbonneau and Najarro have aged out, we can look forward to a bunch of exciting new faces.
    Agreed about the new faces. I can never remember the rules about who gets to pick up extra spots - is there any chance we could pick up extra slots if other countries don't use theirs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Habs View Post
    I will be curious to see if Kaetlyn Osmond competes as a junior or a senior next year.
    Me too. At first, I had strongly wanted her to get out on the senior GP, but I'm leaning towards JGP now. She's not high enough on the SB list or in the World standings to get an automatic invite to another country's event and wouldn't be high up on the sub list. She'd likely only get Skate Canada and a Senior B and without a high finish, wouldn't get much for ISU points. For that reason, I think that JGP is probably better for her to be able to build up ISU points, especially if she qualified for the final. Then she could still do the senior championships later in the season if she were to qualify and hopefully not be buried as one of the low-ranked skaters (or at least be able to build up points to get ahead for the following season).

    The downside is that would cut some other talented skaters out of the JGP. It's a tough call, unless Canada is able to pick up slots from other countries. I think more young skaters need to be sent out to Senior B events as well - if SC wants to give someone like Rheault international experience, send her to a Sr. B instead of taking up JGP slots. Charbonneau could also benefit from one, she actually had a decent Canadians. Unfortunately, SC doesn't seem to bother with any Sr. B except Nebelhorn and canned Thornhill as a Sr. B last year.
    Last edited by Erin; 03-27-2012 at 11:48 PM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    Given how many spots SC left blank last year in other disciplines, I would never assume they will use all the slots.

    I'm pretty sure we have max JGP slots in ladies at least once - for sure after Rochette was 5th (behind only Japanese and American skaters) at Jr. Worlds. I also think we were first in line to pick up extra spots after Charbonneau was 6th at Jr. Worlds, but chose not to use them. Plus, we should be taking more advantage of events like Triglav, Challenge Cup (I'm glad Daleman was sent this year at least), and other spring internationals.


    Agreed about the new faces. I can never remember the rules about who gets to pick up extra spots - is there any chance we could pick up extra slots if other countries don't use theirs?

    I won't go back to Rochette's days as the rules for JGP slots were very different in those days.

    When Charbonneau finished 6th , Canada was the 4th highest country.

    Extra slots can be had when one of the top 12 countries ( those that get 6 or more JGP spots ) fail to use all their slots. Only the 4th and 5th countries even have a right to extra slots.

    Yes Canada would have first dibs at those slots. Unfortunately none are to be had from the top 3 countries that year (Japan , US and Russia). So we might have been able to get a spot from a country that had 6 or 7 slots. Would be interesting to see if countries 5-12 used all their slots. BTW countries 5 and 6 which also had 7 slots guaranteed were Sweden and Germany. Countries 7 - 12 ( 6 slots ) were France, Estonia , Switzerland , Turkey , Finland and Denmark. I would look most at the countries with 6 slots other than Finland and France as I think slots could have been picked up there.

    This year as Skate Canada is only the 7th best country ( hence six slots ) , they won't have any chance for extra slots.

  8. #88

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    It would be interesting if SC made one of the summer competitions a mandatory competition for JGP assignments. A different competition could be used for each of the disciplines to spread things around a bit, but it would be a show up if you want to challenge for a spot scenario. They could do some sort of average with the skater's score a Nationals and then give the spots out based on the highest scores. Perhaps there could be a bonus for landing the mandatory solo triple in the short and some sort of system to account for the skater's age - ie, older skaters with only one JGP season left would require a higher score than someone with 3 or 4 seasons left.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    It would be interesting if SC made one of the summer competitions a mandatory competition for JGP assignments. A different competition could be used for each of the disciplines to spread things around a bit, but it would be a show up if you want to challenge for a spot scenario. They could do some sort of average with the skater's score a Nationals and then give the spots out based on the highest scores. Perhaps there could be a bonus for landing the mandatory solo triple in the short and some sort of system to account for the skater's age - ie, older skaters with only one JGP season left would require a higher score than someone with 3 or 4 seasons left.
    In ice dance we already unofficially have that as usually all the junior ice dance couples will show up at Minto. The pairs are a little less centralized but they generally all compete in Quebec or Thornhill.

    It would be much harder to do this for the ladies because of the increased numbers involved.

    However, having event finals in all disciplines in all competitions would go a long way to centralizing the system without any problems.

    It is important to have is finals in all events with large fields that have to be separated into multiple groups. That way the best skaters from different groups will be forced to face off against each other. Right now our best skaters constantly compete in weak fields . This has to be implemented at all levels and competitions across Canada starting at pre-juvenile. That way our most talented skaters get to face off against each other often and create the environment where they push each other. Only Thornhill from pre-novice to junior has event finals in this situation.

    I do think the age thing should be considered. That would help prevent the perennial international failures ( ie Kang , Grenier and Najarro ) from clogging up the spots. Better to give it to the younger ones even if they are a little behind the older ones as it is clear in these cases the older ones are likely going nowhere and the younger ones can use the experience better in the long term.

  10. #90
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    There was some momentum when Joannie Rochette was 5th and Lauren Wilson was 8th at 2002 Junior Worlds, earning 3 spots for 2003. Unfortunately, none of Signe Ronka, Amanda Billings or Meghan Duhamel were able to finish top 12 at 2003 Jr. Worlds, bringing Canada back down to 1 spot for 2004 (which in fact went to Senior National Champion Cynthia Phaneuf).

    Since then, it's been an unfortunate cycle of Junior Champions not really following through into seniors.

  11. #91

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    Well, this must get better next year or there will only be one spot for 2012.

  12. #92

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    I think we are just going to have to resign ourselves to having one woman for 2012-2013. I can't see anyone stepping up to the plate and delivering when it's needed.

    That said, I feel bad for Amelie and I still think she had an awful skate -- at least compared to how I've seen her skate at other comps.
    Crazy about sports!

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    I don't follow Canadian ladies much...just out of curiosity, why don't more top Canadian girls have the harder jumps? Is it training them late, not competing enough with those jumps or something else?

  14. #94

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    I'm bumping this thread up because I don't think it's worth starting a new/separate thread in Kiss and Cry for this very early season competition.

    The 2012 Ursula Lehming Scarboro Skate competition in Scarborough, ON was held this past weekend (April 27-29) -- top 2 in the Senior Ladies free skate:
    1 Alaine Chartrand Nepean SC 90.05
    2 Gabrielle Daleman Hilltop SC 77.92
    FS protocols: http://sfsc.on.ca/ScarboroSkate/2012PDF/swfde.pdf
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  15. #95

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    I honestly think it's a hopeless situation, being such a small country population-wise with no-one to carry the banner so to speak. We can't expect Joannie to rescue Canadian ladies....she's paid her dues.
    Addicted to FSU

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    Small country population-wise doesn't seem to ever hurt the Canadian men. And it doesn't seem like it's a lack of girls getting into skating that is the problem either.

  17. #97

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    Skate Canada press release titled "Up-and-comers set to attend Skate Canada National Development Camp" in Toronto, May 4-6, 2012: http://www.skatecanada.ca/AboutUs/Ne...S/Default.aspx

    15 of the 24 invited are women:
    Larkyn Austman, 14, Coquitlam, B.C. [N2]
    Alaine Chartrand, 16, Prescott, Ont. [S9]
    Roxanne Cournoyer, 14, Sorel-Tracy, Que. [J4]
    Gabrielle Daleman, 14, Newmarket, Ont. [J1]
    Madelyn Dunley, 15, Milton, Ont. [N1]
    Alexandra Gagnon, 18, Chicoutimi, Que. [S10]
    Zoe Gong, 14, Ottawa, Ont. [N7]
    Britanny Guiseppe Clarke, 13, St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Que. [N11]
    Shelby Hall, 14, Frobisher, Sask. [N12]
    Jayda Jurome, 14, Kelowna, B.C. [N-wd; won Challenge]
    Sandrine Martin, 14, Montreal, Que. [N5]
    Lisa Nasu-Yu, 15, Ottawa, Ont. [N9]
    Kaetlyn Osmond, 16, Marystown, Nfld. [S3]
    Haley Sales, 15, Kelowna, B.C. [N3]
    Julianne Séguin, 15, Longueuil, Que. [J3]
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    I'm bumping this thread up because I don't think it's worth starting a new/separate thread in Kiss and Cry for this very early season competition.

    The 2012 Ursula Lehming Scarboro Skate competition in Scarborough, ON was held this past weekend (April 27-29) -- top 2 in the Senior Ladies free skate:
    1 Alaine Chartrand Nepean SC 90.05
    2 Gabrielle Daleman Hilltop SC 77.92
    FS protocols: http://sfsc.on.ca/ScarboroSkate/2012PDF/swfde.pdf

    Nice jump list from Chartrand and wow, Daleman is rotating a 3F and 3L, two jumps she didn't have this year. I dunno...watching Daleman, I really think she's going to go somewhere. She has skating skills, musicality and athleticism. I can't say she'll be the greatest, but I really believe she'll be a legitimate factor on the Canadian senior scene when all is said and done.

    Osmond will be the really interesting story to watch. If you only consider what's best for her, I'd give her two JGPs and another JW's to get some points and ready her for seniors. The problem is she's arguably ready now, and more importantly Lacoste and Phaneuf can no longer be Plan B's for each other. I think if we see Osmond in seniors this year that will be a signal that SC is readying itself to chack Amelie and Cynthia as soon as they can if they both maintain their current dreadful standard.

  19. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Here's the direct link to the 10-minute segment titled "The Big Picture: Legacy of Ladies Skating: Examining the next generation of Canadian female figure skaters" (not geoblocked): http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskati...#id=2205235358
    Doug Leigh, Jennifer Robinson, and Josée Chouinard are among those interviewed and Tracy Wilson and Pj Kwong contribute commentary afterwards.
    Thanks Sylvia. Interesting vid and question. Canada has a great tradition for skating and I think the question is how to motivate these young talented kids to figure skating to elite levels? Certainly, I think figure skating IS an expensive and lonely sport unlike team sports like hockey and soccer. You can find a highly prodigious kid but without the 'resources' (ie. the cutting and polishing) there is no way this kid will become a sparkling diamond.

  20. #100
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    Well Osmond got Skate Canada along with Lacoste, third spot TBA. No non host picks for the Canadian ladies on the grand prix - this must be a first.
    Osmond moving up is a good choice IMO. I hope they have a skate off for the third spot.

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