Fixing the Canadian Ladies Program

[Vagabond]

This. A lot of canadian girls, especially in my community will prefer to play hockey or ringette than to figure skate. This could be problematic in the future is the number of girls entering skating is reduced.

Thank goodness your boys at least aren't afraid to be considered graceful and artistic if they take up figure skating.

[bbkenn]

They should ask the Canadian audience to stop giving out standing ovations for crap skating.

And having Stojko and Robinson as multiple National Champions can't be good for inspiration.

I agree about Robinson, but Elvis, even if you don't like him, was a very successful skater with multiple Canadian championships, 3 time World champion, 2 time Olympic Silver medalist... So I wouldn't call him a crap skater; that's just nuts.

[nadioso]

One huge problem is the competitive structure .

In mens, pairs and dance summer and fall competitions, all entrants compete in one group.

In ladies, they are separated into several groups since there are many more entries than the other disciplines.

The medals are given out for each group. The best skaters never face each other in a final.

This means that our ladies compete in diluted fields with no incentive to push each other.

I have seen a "winner" of a junior ladies group at one of the bigger fall competitions ( Octoberfest which is run by Central Ontario section ) land nothing more than a double axel. Even worse the said skater did not even try any triples in the warmup.

The only ladies competition with event finals ( pre-novice to junior ) is Thornhill.

Until we have event finals in all competitions at all levels, starting at pre-juvenile; the ladies will not improve. It is important that our best skaters face each other in competition often. Even within a section, often the only time the best skaters in that section face off in competition is at sectionals.

The juveniles and pre-juveniles do not have a national competition and their highest competition is only sectionals. Considering that a typical summer or fall competition has skaters from multiple sections, having event finals has the potential of creating an even better field than a typical sectionals event.

[Marco]

I agree about Robinson, but Elvis, even if you don't like him, was a very successful skater with multiple Canadian championships, 3 time World champion, 2 time Olympic Silver medalist... So I wouldn't call him a crap skater; that's just nuts.

How will Stojko's success (solely based on jumps) ever inspire a lady skater to work on style? or spins? or choreography? or expression?

[manhn]

Yeah, because the men after Stojko had no style or spin or choreography.

[essence_of_soy]

Their skater who won the short program at Nationals, Kaityln Osmond looks very promising, though. I believe she is being sent to Junior Worlds.

Here a link to her short:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6He7...eature=related

[Sylvia]

Gabrielle Daleman, age 14, is the 2012 Canadian Junior Ladies champion and she landed 3Lz, 3S+2T and 2A in her SP: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/19815294

[ltnskater]

At the pre-novice/novice level there are bonuses for putting in more difficult jumps. I think looking at the Novice and Junior competition from nationals things are looking a lot more positive on the ladies front. Puberty will always take out some girls it's just the way it goes. If you want a successful model, look at what Karen & Jason Mongrain are doing in Kelowna. It's amazing what they've produced/are producing there.

O right, I forgot about these bonuses (cause most of my skating friends are either at the junior/senior level, or now quit after competing under rules where there were no bonuses), and yes, that too is a good start. They have just been implemented recently, and hopefully we will see the effects of those rules in the years to come.

in practise, phaneuf lands maybe 1/10 lutzes. not all of her issues are mental - brian will probably rework the lutz technique.

Thank you! Yes! I always suspected it was a combination of both mental and technical issues, confirmed when I saw her in practice last summer briefly... lutzes were not even consistent on practice which first of all, probably means they won't be there in competition, and second of all, does not give her good confidence in the jump.

[ltnskater]

One huge problem is the competitive structure .

In mens, pairs and dance summer and fall competitions, all entrants compete in one group.

In ladies, they are separated into several groups since there are many more entries than the other disciplines.

The medals are given out for each group. The best skaters never face each other in a final.

This means that our ladies compete in diluted fields with no incentive to push each other.

I have seen a "winner" of a junior ladies group at one of the bigger fall competitions ( Octoberfest which is run by Central Ontario section ) land nothing more than a double axel. Even worse the said skater did not even try any triples in the warmup.

The only ladies competition with event finals ( pre-novice to junior ) is Thornhill.

Until we have event finals in all competitions at all levels, starting at pre-juvenile; the ladies will not improve. It is important that our best skaters face each other in competition often. Even within a section, often the only time the best skaters in that section face off in competition is at sectionals.

The juveniles and pre-juveniles do not have a national competition and their highest competition is only sectionals. Considering that a typical summer or fall competition has skaters from multiple sections, having event finals has the potential of creating an even better field than a typical sectionals event.

Ironically, one of my really good friends also won Octoberfest a few years back with only a double axel (two of them), in her group... at the novice level.

And then at the thornhill competition this year... one of my friends placed near the top in the long program doing one triple and two double axels... at the senior level (which by the way has no split groups). I was very happy for her though!

[Jammers]

Bear more children (esp. girls). Recruit more people from outside Canada (Get Paulina Whovever--any of the Paulinas!). Bribe Joannie to return to competitive skating.

Canada's population is A LOT smaller than Japan, Russia and the US. Canada won't have the same depth in one discipline (although dance is strong at the moment) or across all disciplines (although Japan's pairs and ice dance programs are weak).

I have no idea what Robinson and esp. 3-time World Champion Stokjo has to do with it. Both are skaters who did the best they did with what they had. To me, if I saw that with Canadian ladies and we got the same results, I'd be okay with it.

I think the population thing is a bit that's an excuse. Yes the US has a much bigger population but the whole of Canada is in cold weather country while most of the US is not. Imagine how many great athletes in the US never see an ice rink or play ice sports because they live in the south or other warm weather places. Places like Florida and Texas for instance where so many world class athletes come from. And plus there are so many other sports here that kids want to play. Like football and baseball.

[maharbabackward]

Mental toughness seems to be something lacking in most of the ladies. Even Joannie Rochette struggled with this, but was able to finally overcome it the last two seasons. I remember when I heard her mother had passed away and thought "Oh! No" thinking it would be difficult to perform in her country at the olympics with the expectations and now the burden of her mother's death. I'm glad she proved me wrong. Canada's women have been notorious headcases and sometimes they finally make a mark (see: Rochette, Manley) but unfortunately usually go the other way (see: Chounaird, Humphreys, ? Phaneuf). I think this question has been asked so often, it may put more than a lot of expectation to prove the doubters wrong.

[berthesghost]

How will Stojko's success (solely based on jumps) ever inspire a lady skater to work on style? or spins? or choreography? or expression?

Yeah, because that's the problem with Canadian ladies today, they're just jumping beans with no interest in style.

But you're right on about inspiration. It's essential. That's why Sonja Henie, yuna Kim, midori ito, Barbara Ann Scott and shen&zhao never won ogm or worlds.. With no champions to inspire its absolutely impossible to ever succeed.

[Seerek]

is there any evidence to support that perhaps singles isn't necessarily the preferred discipline of the female skaters? We've had ladies who competed in singles with some success at the national level (Cynthia Coull - 2nd (1985), Jaime Sale - 5th (1995), Meagan Duhamel - 4th (2006), Jessica Dube - 6th (2008)) but ultimately opted for pairs over singles (with greater success).

[nadioso]

O right, I forgot about these bonuses (cause most of my skating friends are either at the junior/senior level, or now quit after competing under rules where there were no bonuses), and yes, that too is a good start. They have just been implemented recently, and hopefully we will see the effects of those rules in the years to come.

.

Bonuses have always existed at the novice level and below. The bar for the bonuses was lowered this year.

Before this season the novices got bonuses for triple loop and harder and pre-novices got bonuses for any triple jump.

Under the old rules none of the novice ladies ( and none of the pre-novice ladies over the previous 2 seasons ) were collecting bonuses because none of the ladies were attempting the tricks to get bonuses.

The new rules give bonuses for all triples at novice and double axel or harder at pre-novice.

As well they get an extra jump pass ( one pass must be double axel or harder in order to use the extra jump pass ).

The other new rules this year is removing the 0.5 deduction for falls on jumps.

The only saving grace with the Canadian ladies is that the novices and juniors were at least attempting harder content this year. They are still way behind where they need to be but at least the younger ones have made steps in the right direction.

[sk8girl]

Yeah, because that's the problem with Canadian ladies today, they're just jumping beans with no interest in style.

[Subway]

How will Stojko's success (solely based on jumps) ever inspire a lady skater to work on style? or spins? or choreography? or expression?

Canadian ladies don't need to work on that stuff. They need to work on jumping.

[manhn]

I think the population thing is a bit that's an excuse. Yes the US has a much bigger population but the whole of Canada is in cold weather country while most of the US is not. Imagine how many great athletes in the US never see an ice rink or play ice sports because they live in the south or other warm weather places. Places like Florida and Texas for instance where so many world class athletes come from. And plus there are so many other sports here that kids want to play. Like football and baseball.

Canada's population is the same as California.

Florida has a strong figure skating program.

[sk8girl]

Canada's population is the same as California.

Florida has a strong figure skating program.

True, but my understanding is that in Canada a MUCH higher percentage of the population is enrolled in figure skating compared to the U.S. I heard a few years ago that Skate Canada actually had MORE members than USFS, despite Canada's population being much smaller than the U.S. (I believe that was with ALL members of each federation, including recreational programs like learn to skate, etc., but still.) (Sorry, I can't remember exactly where I heard that, but I do remember it being a reliable source that I took seriously...) I have no idea if that's still true or not and I have no idea what the numbers are for competitive programs in each country.

I think a big part of it is that in Canada almost every little town has an arena and a skating club. So, the vast majority of the Canadian population lives close to an arena and a skating program and a large percentage of Canadians end up enrolled in a Skate Canada program at some point, even if it's only for a year of learn to skate or something. (For example, I grew up in a town of 6000 and they had an arena and a Skate Canada skating club. The neighbouring town of 1500 people (only 8 km away) had their own arena and skating club, as did at least 5 other small to medium-sized towns within a half hour drive.) I have the impression that in a lot of areas of the U.S. this isn't true and the average person wouldn't necessarily have easy access to an arena and a skating club offering lessons (unless they live in a big city or an area where skating is very popular). For example, when I've travelled to Florida and looked for places to skate, I found that I pretty much had to drive to one of the major cities to skate -- there were no rinks in the smaller towns that I was visiting.

Also, in the U.S., I think there are a lot more competing sports that are very popular, like basketball, football, baseball, etc. (all of which are less popular in Canada, I think). In Canada, hockey is huge and figure skating is also popular, so there is a lot of ice available and a lot of opportunity to learn to skate. That's obviously not to say that everyone who learns to skate will stick with it and go into either hockey or figure skating, but the point is that the pool of people that Skate Canada is drawing from isn't necessarily THAT much smaller than the pool that USFS is drawing from. (Definitely not as small as you'd think based on population, anyway.)

[Jammers]

Thank you sk8girl you made my point much better then i did. lol

[Vash01]

I have always wondered by Canada has so many successful male skaters, but very few ladies in the singles (Liz Manley, Joannie R. are just exceptions, IMO). May be the most talented ladies go to pairs or ice dance, like the USSR in the past? Maybe Canadian fed should tap youngters (7-8 years old) with great jumping ability and veer them toward singles. That won't fix the problem in the near future though.