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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    IME, at least, reacting like this usually makes the rebellion worse. Posting this on his daughter's Facebook feed so her friends can see it is a bad idea in more ways than one, IMO.
    I'd be interested as well. The stuff he's posted make it seem like he and his daughter have sat down and talked and that they have a better understanding now. He seems to think that shooting the laptop was the shock she needed to take him seriously. He mentioned that when they talked, she said she didn't remember prior talks. My daughter is like that. She says what she has to in order to get her way and minimize the damage but it doesn't penetrate.

    I also think it's interesting to see the reactions that are extreme on both sides. Like the one advocating for spanking being brought back as acceptable discipline -- because hitting people solves all parenting woes as we all know no kids had discipline problems back when spanking was the norm -- and the ones predicting his daughter will become a prostitute or commit suicide -- because punishing kids destroys their pysche or something.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by FigureSpins View Post
    The father's already posted several responses via Facebook and in interviews.
    http://www.facebook.com/tommyjordaniii
    I read a little of his page yesterday, until I couldn't stand to read any more.

    First he said he wasn't a great dad and he had his bad days. The video day was his worst day ever as a father--except the only thing he would change about it would be his hat and the cigarette in his hand. So maybe his worst day was still a pretty good day, I guess.

    Then he went on at length about how he has flaws and failings.

    Then he concluded with a nice long self-righteous rant about how he was raising his kids "old fashioned" and the way kids are raised today sucks, the schools suck, child labor laws suck, and Obama is an idiot.

    Yeah. But he doesn't think much of himself as a father or anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I also think it's interesting to see the reactions that are extreme on both sides. Like the one advocating for spanking being brought back as acceptable discipline -- because hitting people solves all parenting woes as we all know no kids had discipline problems back when spanking was the norm -- and the ones predicting his daughter will become a prostitute or commit suicide -- because punishing kids destroys their pysche or something.
    But spanking still is the norm--roughly 80% of preschoolers in this country are spanked. I always at people who think spanking needs to make a comeback--it's never gone away. I also think it's rather hilarious how most people who advocate spanking will always talk about how often their butts were busted when they were growing up. If spanking is such an awesome disciplinary tool, you'd think it would be more effective than that.

    At the same time, kids are pretty sturdy and can take a whole lot worse than having their laptops shot to death. I actually thought that was kind of funny, if sinfully wasteful.

    But we shall see--or not. Does anyone know what happened to that girl whose mother made her go stand out on the street with the sign saying she would work for food? Or if this kid's grades improved? Yeah, me, either.
    Trolling dates all the way back to 397 B.C. - People began following Plato around and would make fart noises after everything he said.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Or if this kid's grades improved?
    Wow. I think her parenting skills pale in comparison to his grades...
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    But spanking still is the norm--roughly 80% of preschoolers in this country are spanked. I always at people who think spanking needs to make a comeback--it's never gone away.
    I think that's a misleading statistic though. I've spanked both my kids. Maybe 1 or 2 times each when they were very little and I was very frustrated. But I don't really believe in spanking (I think it's pretty ineffectual as a punishment) and it's not something I'm proud of or did regularly.

    I know a lot of parents like me who don't really believe in spanking but find themselves doing it a few times over the course of raising their kids for various reasons (frustration, trying something new because the other stuff isn't working, etc.). When I was growing up, though, most parents spanked regularly and firmly believed in spanking as a discipline technique.

    So I believe 80% of today's preschoolers have been spanked. I don't believe 80% of preschoolers are spanked on a regular basis as part of what their parents believe to be proper discipline.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I think that's a misleading statistic though. I've spanked both my kids. Maybe 1 or 2 times each when they were very little and I was very frustrated. But I don't really believe in spanking (I think it's pretty ineffectual as a punishment) and it's not something I'm proud of or did regularly.

    I know a lot of parents like me who don't really believe in spanking but find themselves doing it a few times over the course of raising their kids for various reasons (frustration, trying something new because the other stuff isn't working, etc.). When I was growing up, though, most parents spanked regularly and firmly believed in spanking as a discipline technique.

    So I believe 80% of today's preschoolers have been spanked. I don't believe 80% of preschoolers are spanked on a regular basis as part of what their parents believe to be proper discipline.
    Let's say that you are right. None of that negates the fact that spanking is far from obsolete. You can think spanking is wrong all you like; if you do it, you do it, regardless of your philosophical stance.

    Now let's say that the majority of Americans approve of spanking--which they do, according to polls. Take the 65% of Americans who approve of spanking, add in the parents who don't believe in spanking but spank sometimes, anyway, and it seems to me that you have a norm that is alive and well.

    Depending on your statistical source, spanking may be even more common than that:

    Well, depending on where you look for statistics, anywhere between 65% to 90% of American parents are spanking their kids. Here are some statistics I found:

    - 68 percent of American parents think spanking is not only good but essential to child rearing;

    - 90 percent of parents spank their toddlers at least three times a week; two-thirds spank them once a day;

    - One in four parents begin to spank when their child is 6 months old, 50 percent when their child is 12 months old;


    http://www.positive-parents.org/2011...ids-today.html

    I think those are tad high, but they are within the spectrum of the stats I've seen.
    Trolling dates all the way back to 397 B.C. - People began following Plato around and would make fart noises after everything he said.

  6. #26

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    I think if a poll was done in prisons, spankings are not the reason most of the inmates are in there. I could be wrong though, I've never done one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    I think if a poll was done in prisons, spankings are not the reason most of the inmates are in there.
    Assuming that spankings leads to incarceration is a classic post hoc fallacy; correlation is not causation.

    The argument usually runs that most convicted felons were regularly spanked and are still convicted felons, ergo spanking doesn't do a whole lot to deter antisocial behaviors.

    I'm not sure where the prison poll reference came from?
    Trolling dates all the way back to 397 B.C. - People began following Plato around and would make fart noises after everything he said.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    You can think spanking is wrong all you like; if you do it, you do it, regardless of your philosophical stance.
    But a poll that asks have you EVER spank is going to show really high numbers because it's going to include everyone who spanked even one time. The telling stat is how many parents spank *regularly* and consider spanking a legitimate tool in their parenting arsenal. And how has that changed over time.

    I don't have numbers for that but it seems like spanking was done by 95-99% of parents when I was growing up and done quite regularly and frequently and it was assumed that good parents spanked and only lazy or overly permissive parents didn't spank.

    I think that's changed, but your statistics mean it hasn't changed as much as I think. Plus, I haven't seen stats for 1955-1975 which is the period I'm comparing today with, I'm only going by my own experience.

    But I will say we had neighbors who spanked regularly and believed spanking was justified via their Bible readings and even they didn't spank their toddlers 3x a week!
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Assuming that spankings leads to incarceration is a classic post hoc fallacy; correlation is not causation.

    The argument usually runs that most convicted felons were regularly spanked and are still convicted felons, ergo spanking doesn't do a whole lot to deter antisocial behaviors.

    I'm not sure where the prison poll reference came from?
    Who said it came from anywhere, it's just a question. Kids who got spanked end up in jail, kids who never got spanked end up in jail. Kids get into trouble, period, it's not the discipline people have trouble with it's the form it takes.

    Would anyone have cared about this dad if he didn't shoot his daughter's laptop? Doubt it.

    - 90 percent of parents spank their toddlers at least three times a week; two-thirds spank them once a day;

    - One in four parents begin to spank when their child is 6 months old, 50 percent when their child is 12 months old
    I have a hard time believing these two statistics, I wonder who was in their survey? But you know what they say 82% of all statistics are made up.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    But a poll that asks have you EVER spank is going to show really high numbers because it's going to include everyone who spanked even one time. The telling stat is how many parents spank *regularly* and consider spanking a legitimate tool in their parenting arsenal. And how has that changed over time.
    That number has varied quite a bit over the years, but the 65%-70% of Americans who approve of spanking has been a constant in several polls for the last decade.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I don't have numbers for that but it seems like spanking was done by 95-99% of parents when I was growing up and done quite regularly and frequently and it was assumed that good parents spanked and only lazy or overly permissive parents didn't spank.
    I dunno. My parents weren't big on spanking and I don't recall my friends being spanked much, if at all, but that's hardly a representative sample.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    But I will say we had neighbors who spanked regularly and believed spanking was justified via their Bible readings and even they didn't spank their toddlers 3x a week!
    I do think that's pretty high and IIRC, that figure comes from a study that interpreted "spanking" very broadly to include just about any physical control/discipline. I've had a lot of students do research papers on this topic, and weekly spanking isn't at all uncommon for young kids.

    However, the more educated that parents are, the less likely it is that they will spank, which is probably why you know very few people who spank. The majority of college graduates do not advocate spanking, although it's a rather small majority (I think it's 55% don't/45% do, something like that).
    Trolling dates all the way back to 397 B.C. - People began following Plato around and would make fart noises after everything he said.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    - One in four parents begin to spank when their child is 6 months old, 50 percent when their child is 12 months old;[/I]
    Why would anyone spank a 6 month old baby? Even 12 months is too early IMHO... Do they even understand right from wrong at that age?

  12. #32
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    http://www.facebook.com/notes/love-a...50570279918687

    "... his actions are likely to teach his daughter that anger, frustration, retaliation, bad language and the destruction of property are good ways to solve problems."

    As soon as I saw the dad's video, I had wondered what the Love & Logic folks were going to say about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAngel View Post
    Why would anyone spank a 6 month old baby? Even 12 months is too early IMHO... Do they even understand right from wrong at that age?
    With a 12-month-old, I can understand a quick spank or other physical intervention to stop the kid from doing something s/he shouldn't be doing -- not for punishment, but for prevention and/or to set up a negative association with the unwanted activity.

    A 6-month-old is probably not very mobile and therefore not very likely to get into trouble, so I can't imagine what the point would be. The only "bad" behavior (from the parent's point of view) they're likely to engage in is crying, and hitting them is not likely to get them to stop.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAngel View Post
    Why would anyone spank a 6 month old baby? Even 12 months is too early IMHO... Do they even understand right from wrong at that age?
    There is a subculture that believes it teaches unquestioned obedience and advocates spanking as early as 4-5 mths.

    http://whynottrainachild.com/2010/04...es-from-ttuac/

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    Wow...

    I almost thought it's a satire...

    in fact, part of me still thinks that it might be...

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAngel View Post
    Why would anyone spank a 6 month old baby? Even 12 months is too early IMHO... Do they even understand right from wrong at that age?
    There's a school of thought that says all children are born manipulators and it's the job of parents to nip that in the bud as soon as possible or your children will be spoiled and rule your household.

    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    With a 12-month-old, I can understand a quick spank or other physical intervention to stop the kid from doing something s/he shouldn't be doing -- not for punishment, but for prevention and/or to set up a negative association with the unwanted activity.
    It doesn't work. They don't "get" that you hit them to stop them from doing something dangerous. They just think you are being mean. For no good reason.

    They just don't have the cognitive processes to understand punishment at that age.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  17. #37
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    I am getting so mad just thinking about someone spanking a 6 months old or 12 months old. I just don't get - how can they know anything other than that they can't trust their parents?
    Spanking at any age is wrong, IMO. Luckily me and my husband are in complete agreement.

    I also find the father in that video annoying. What are you teaching your daugther other than if you get really mad, you become violent? Sigh

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAngel View Post
    Wow...

    I almost thought it's a satire...

    in fact, part of me still thinks that it might be...
    It's not. And some people following this book and this guy's teachings have beaten children to death.

    CNN videos linked here:

    http://iamarecoveringfundamentalist....ng-pragmatism/

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    As a young adult I can tell you that to really get to teenagers you have to get into our world. Our world is online. This father did to her exactly what he needed to do in order to tell her that what she did was wrong. He went on youtube, most likely one of her most viewed websites, and told the people that what she had said about him was incorrect and way out of line, which is all true, and finally made his point by showing her that no matter what he spent on that laptop he was not willing to let her use it if all she is going to do with it is slander him. I am sure that she is furious with him, possibly even ridiculously embarrassed, but i am almost certain that before she thinks about doing what she did again she will think about what happened the last time. I know I am not a parent and I have never had my laptop shot by my father but this is how i feel about the situation at hand.

  20. #40
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    Eh, I'm online as much as my kids and they weren't impressed with the dad nor would shooting their laptop help any behavioral situation at home. I think there are other ways to get your message across.

    Though I do like that tv commercial where the mom is upset that her son's YouTube videos don't get many likes.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

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