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  1. #61
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    Not sure I agree with the multiplier for the SP--it's "short" for goodness sake--lets allow 1 program to be skated without being backloaded for more points. Not seeing "even distribution" being achieved with this in place.

    As for the age changes in Pairs, does this mean MORE pre-pubescent little girls skating with men and doing "Cotton Eye Joe" because anything powerful, romantic, etc.... would be downright disturbing and creepy??

  2. #62
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    I can't edit the first post anymore, but I did find this typo (should be 2014 not 2013):

    Junior Short Program Requirements

    ISU SPTC:

    2013-14
    Singles: Loop (2Lo or 3Lo) is required solo jump in SP, flying spin is the sit spin, men have to do camel spin with only one change of foot.
    Pairs: SBS double loop or double axel jump. 2T or 3T throw. Toe Lasso lift. Pair change combo spin. BIDS.

    20134-15
    Singles: Lutz (2Lz or 3Lz) is required solo jump in SP, flying spin is the camel spin, men have to do sit spin with only one change of foot.
    Pairs: SBS double lutz. 2Lo or 3Lo throw. SBS change combo spin. FIDS.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Thanks a lot for this excellent summary, HisWeirness.


    One change that I really really want to see.

    Ban flying upright spins in the short program.
    I proposed this already in 100.000 TC and referee reports

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Instead of just dealing with step sequence vs spiral sequence / MITF, I wish the ISU would find a way to discourage slow-across-the-ice, time consuming, regressing step sequences with unclear patterns that take a minute each to complete.
    I expect some changes on this in upcoming ISU Communications, as this does not require Rule changes per se.

  5. #65
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    Making the minimum age for all senior competitions 15 would mean no Julia Lipnitskaya next season on the GP's, and therefore no exposure to senior competition before Olympic year. I can't see Russia being happy about this... although they have such a gluttony of talented young ladies that maybe they won't try to expend too much political capital to maximize the advantage of one young girl.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by CantALoop View Post
    Or Plushenko skating to mix of Edvin Marton and "Sexy and I Know It"
    Sex Bomb was funny. That would just be creepy.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by HisWeirness View Post
    A Junior Skater/couple by age who participated in one international competition with "Senior" Skaters/couples cannot participate any longer in the same season in International Junior competitions. The next season the same Skater/couple when he/she/they is still within the Junior age can decide to remain and compete with Juniors only. In the case the Skater/couple competes again internationally even once with "Senior" Skaters only then the Skater/couple in question is definitively considered not to be any longer part of the Junior category and this condition remains forever.
    I dont like this rule, it means if a skater has participated in JGP, then wants to go to Euros, the skater cannot take part at both Junior Worlds and senior Worlds? It would hurt smaller federations which have only one skater, but want to send them to all three ISU Championships in the season.
    And even they are still in the junior age, they cant take part at the JGP the next season, because they were already at two ISU senior Championships.
    I hope this rule will not pass!
    Last edited by elfenblüte; 02-07-2012 at 06:30 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    Not sure what's the problem with vocals. Isn't Weaver/Poje's FD this season supposed to be so original, courageous, brave and brilliant? That has vocals.
    I thought it was courageous and brave because they totally ignored the "uplifting" concept and were not penalized...

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by morqet View Post
    Completely irrational of me, but I've always liked that the skating order at Worlds/Europeans/4CC doesn't just follow the order from the SP. Somehow makes it more exciting to see who gets drawn where, and so often it stops the whole thing feeling like a procession towards crowning the person who won the short as the person who wins overall.
    ITA with this.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conga View Post
    I thought it was courageous and brave because they totally ignored the "uplifting" concept and were not penalized...
    I thought that "uplifting" rule either never passed or was revoked. I remember someone here who studies the rules mentioning it.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  11. #71
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    I think that the confusion was that "Uplifting" was originally stated as a change in text and highlighted that way, but later dropped. It was implemented by being placed in the tables for adjustments to Program Components on page 27 of the Handbook for Referees and Judges (Ice Dance) under "Interpretation and Timing" as a result of Communication 1677, where it is included in a table for a required deduction of -1 to -2, if applied.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  12. #72
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    Now that Pairs really started to develop, can they please stop Juniors being able to do both JGP and SGP?

    NO TO LYRICS!

    They are distracting.

    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Judges didn't even bother with deducting for Amodio. Maybe because it was a surprise? But why wouldn't they all immediately deduct? Because it was a delayed worlds?
    They couldn't find the button.

    (And some claimed there was no lyrics. x infinity)

    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Part of the reason for quad going away was so many jumps after halfway point in free skates for bonus and how that was like equal to doing a quad or something but they're only 3 jumps in the SP but LP saw decline in difficulty of jumps and maybe you are seeing that in ladies this season and last season with Ando doing 5 jumps post halfway and doing the easiest content of her career. Maybe that is why they say the GOE factor doesn't change. Because bonus plus GOE increase is soo bad.
    Yeah and funny how quads are now coming back even though the halfway point bonus is still there, proving your assertion has no sense whatsoever.

    Skaters actually had to work on other stuff than jumps once IJS came into place. That held back jump progression but only for a while.

    As for Ando, she was always underrotating most of her jumps. So it made sense for her to play safe and not risk <s.

    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    For example, Iliushetchkina & Maisuradze have music which I think could be potentially deducted but it was considered acceptable.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYsTrQkBSRg
    That couldn't potentially be deducted for. There's no lyrics in this music.

    "La la la la" are not words.

    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    In comparison, a few years ago Brian Joubert had some music which was considered ok for the whole season, including GP events and Europeans, and then got deducted at worlds.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLfIpdpLncU
    This should never have been allowed to happen. If you're using the same music, the decisions should be consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by missing View Post
    Maybe the ISU has done some polling/market research, and found younger skaters are dropping out of the sport because they have no desire to skate to Carmen.
    The vocals don't have much to do with it.

    There's plenty of appropriate music around.

    Skaters, coaches and choreographers are just too lazy to research it.

    Quote Originally Posted by champs View Post
    Since there are only three jump passes in the SP for singles, I have a feeling that this rule change alone would make quite a few skaters do all three jump passes in the second half starting right after the halfway mark in their programs, kind of defeating the purpose of "even distribution." I suppose there is a better way to achieve such a goal than this proposal if even distribution of difficulties is so important (personally I don't really care.)
    It's gonna be .

    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    Not sure what's the problem with vocals. Isn't Weaver/Poje's FD this season supposed to be so original, courageous, brave and brilliant? That has vocals.
    It isn't any of those things.

    But yes, it does have vocals.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoenNL View Post
    I proposed this already in 100.000 TC and referee reports
    That's because you rock!

    Maybe by the time of 200.001th report somebody will take notice.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoenNL View Post
    I expect some changes on this in upcoming ISU Communications, as this does not require Rule changes per se.
    Please, this needs to be addressed (ridiculously long step sequences).

    Leonova's SP Slss makes me lose all will to live.

    Quote Originally Posted by morqet View Post
    Completely irrational of me, but I've always liked that the skating order at Worlds/Europeans/4CC doesn't just follow the order from the SP. Somehow makes it more exciting to see who gets drawn where, and so often it stops the whole thing feeling like a procession towards crowning the person who won the short as the person who wins overall.
    It's not irrational. It removes the random factor and it will make the "higher PCS, the later you skate" trend even more entrenched, probably. :/

  13. #73
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    Doesn't the whole vocals/no vocals argument really boil down to your own personal taste?

    It really has nothing to do with sport or art or whatever. Many skaters will still choose music with no vocals, many will like the option of using it. Some will choose absolute trash, some will chose wisely.


    At the end of the day its an arcane rule that doesn't add anything to the sport and exists only because figure skating purists are afraid of change.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by martian_girl View Post
    At the end of the day its an arcane rule that doesn't add anything to the sport and exists only because figure skating purists are afraid of change.
    Judges seem to be very literal about skaters "portraying" the "character" of the music (e.g. Davis and White being told to drop their first FD this year because they weren't copying the story of the movie that the music came from). If vocals were allowed, in a few years we would have nothing but skaters acting out the words of a song. And we already have that. It's called Disney on Ice.

    Having non-vocal music forces skaters to be creative to show what the music is about, or what it means to them. It also gives them the option to do more than just recreate the story of the song or the musical work. IMHO those two reasons alone are enough to keep the ban on vocals.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  15. #75

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    Very true.

    However, I expect some of the resistance to vocals is financial--Carmen is in the public domain, but John Lennon isn't, and if broadcast, Yoko Ono will need to be paid. by someone, either the federation, the broadcaster, or the skater.

    Furthermore, adding acting lessons to the price of being an elite skater is certainly another cost of having vocals. And the beginning of this is Weaver & Poje. Their Je Suis Malade has been very well received. They took acting lessons this year. I am sure others will follow.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Now that Pairs really started to develop, can they please stop Juniors being able to do both JGP and SGP?

    NO TO LYRICS!

    They are distracting.


    I'm all for this

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    I'm all for this
    I'm all for freedom!

    What is wrong with lyrics? When the Kween skated to Field of Gold, it was magical.

  18. #78

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    And when Amodio put lyrics in, it was not.

    When A&P put MLK in, it was controversial.

    At least, with no worlds, it's one less thing for skaters to be penalized for that they can't predict. And there isn't as much angst and controversy involved.

  19. #79

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    My main objections to vocals in a competitive context are that they're distracting when trying to watch the program for technical details and how the skating relates to the rhythm and melodic line

    Beyond that, it's a matter of taste -- aesthetically I like some performances to vocal music and dislike others; I like some performances to instrumental music and dislike others. Other spectators will prefer different examples.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Judges seem to be very literal about skaters "portraying" the "character" of the music (e.g. Davis and White being told to drop their first FD this year because they weren't copying the story of the movie that the music came from). If vocals were allowed, in a few years we would have nothing but skaters acting out the words of a song. And we already have that. It's called Disney on Ice.
    That's a worst case scenario. The best skaters will find ways to be creative without sticking to a literal interpretation of the lyrics.

    Having non-vocal music forces skaters to be creative to show what the music is about, or what it means to them. It also gives them the option to do more than just recreate the story of the song or the musical work. IMHO those two reasons alone are enough to keep the ban on vocals.

    Mostly, it has just given them the option of using the same five "safe" music choices over and over. Trying something different might give the the sport a shot in the arm in terms of creativity. It could fail spectacularly, but it also could bring us some great programs. Its worth giving it a try.

    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    Very true.

    However, I expect some of the resistance to vocals is financial--Carmen is in the public domain, but John Lennon isn't, and if broadcast, Yoko Ono will need to be paid. by someone, either the federation, the broadcaster, or the skater.

    This would be the only acceptable argument to not having vocal music in. I can imagine the rights fees could get pretty expensive when you take into account DVD releases and the like. OTOH, some artists might jump at the chance to have an Olympic-level skater use their music.

    I think my main beef is that vocal or not, music choices have gotten boring. I can't remember the last time I've been truly inspired by reading a skater's musical selection. Its the same five classical music pieces over and over, and the presentation tends to be pretty interchangeable.

    I'm not sure what the ISU could do to change this aside from rewarding risk a little bit more.

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