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    Post 2012 ISU Congress Proposals - Discussion

    Visaliakid has already posted a thread about the proposed rule change regarding ISU elections. Here is a link to the thread discussing that particular proposal.

    In this thread I'm outlining some of the other proposals that may be of interest to FSU readers. You can download the entire proposal document "Summary of Proposals for the 54th Ordinary Congress Kuala Lumpur - 2012 (Provisory Version January 31, 2012)" here.
    ____________________

    General Proposals for ISU Congress

    Age Limits

    From ISU Council:
    • Add definition - Senior: Age 15 by July 1st that immediately precedes the relevant competition
    • International Senior Competitions will now require the skater to meet the "Senior" definition above, not the Age 14 by July 1st now required in Rule 108.
    • Maximum age for Men in Pairs and Dance would be 20 instead of 21, effective with the 2014-2015 season.
    • Max age for novice (international) lowered to 14 from 15, effective with the 2014-2015 season.


    Also Added:
    A Skater who is still within the Junior range of age, but has participated at least twice in ISU Events per Rule 107, paragraphs 1, 2, 6 and 7 (i.e. ISU Championships, Olympics, GP Series (Senior/Junior), World Team Trophy) cannot any longer participate in any Junior International Competition or ISU Junior Championships.
    HW note: this proposal is since Rule 107 paragraph 6 mentions both senior and junior GP series

    A Junior Skater/couple by age who participated in one international competition with "Senior" Skaters/couples cannot participate any longer in the same season in International Junior competitions. The next season the same Skater/couple when he/she/they is still within the Junior age can decide to remain and compete with Juniors only. In the case the Skater/couple competes again internationally even once with "Senior" Skaters only then the Skater/couple in question is definitively considered not to be any longer part of the Junior category and this condition remains forever.
    ISU Reasoning:The age requirements are different in the ISU Branches. Even in Figure Skating a Skater can be a Novice, a Junior or a "Senior" Skater by age, that is not appropriate and does not reflect the clear needs of a proper age scale of an International Federation. It is also embarrassing that a Skater can win the Grand Prix Final, but is not permitted to participate in ISU "Senior" Championships. To make it easier for the Members to adjust their training programs to the proposed age requirements, a two years postponement of the new age limitation for Junior Men in Pairs and Ice Dance and the Novice age is been proposed. Within that time the Members can update their training and recruiting programs. In addition, a Skater who decided to move to the "Senior" category should stay within this level and should not be entitled to switch back-and-forth between Junior and Senior events. Such switches are no good for all Junior Skaters and should therefore not be accepted.


    From Russia
    • Change maximum age for Junior Men and Ladies to 18 instead of 19
    • Change maximum age for Pairs/Dance Ladies to 18 (instead of 19) and for Pairs/Dance Men to 19 (instead of 21)


    Reasoning: the current upper age limitations for Juniors seem to be too high.


    From Germany
    • Keep novice maximum age limit at 15 for singles and pairs and ice dance ladies.
    • Make maximum age for novice pairs and dance men to be 17 instead of 15.

    Reasoning: The proposed age limits allow to compose more pairs and ice dance couples.


    Skaters Changing Countries

    From ISU Council:
    • Reduce the waiting period to compete in ISU Championships to 18 months instead of 24 months when switching federations.
    • Waiting period is still 12 months for pairs/dance partners (as long as the other partner is a citizen/resident already).

    Reasoning: Paragraph 2b)iii): Shorten Skaters waiting period give Skaters possibility for coming back to compete faster


    The "ISU is Never Freezing our Butts off Again in Bern" Rule

    From ISU Council:
    For International Competitions, at least one covered and preferably heated rink is required. For ISU Championships, and the Olympic Winter Games and the Winter Youth Olympic Games, two covered and closed rinks are required. For ISU Events, the Olympic Winter Games, the Winter Youth Olympic Games and the Qualifying Competition for the Olympic Winter Games the ice rinks must be heated.

    Reason: To ensure that the ice rinks for the ISU Events (including ISU Championships, ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating and ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating, ISU World Team Trophy), the Olympic Winter Games, the Winter Youth Olympic Games (OWG) and the Qualifying Competition for the OWG are heated.


    Number of Skaters/Couples qualifying for Free Skate/Dance at Olympic Games

    ISU Council:
    • Pairs: 16 pairs qualify to free skate instead of all 20
    • Dance: 20 couples qualify to free dance instead of 24

    Reason: To harmonize the Rules for the Olympic Winter Games with the Rules of ISU Championships. The OWG represents the ice skating event of the highest level and with the highest world-wide media attention. For the sake of giving the world-wide audience the best possible impression a limitation in the duration and focus on quality should prevail.



    Singles and Pairs

    Rewarding Jumps Completed Later in the Short Program

    ISU Single & Pair Technical Committee (SPTC) & Norway:
    In the Short Program of Single Skating the base values (but not the GOE’s) for all jump elements started in the second half of the program will be multiplied by a special factor 1.1 in order to give credit for even distribution of difficulties in the program. Each factored base value for all jump elements performed in the second half of the Short Program will be rounded to two decimal places. The second half commences in the middle of the maximum time which means 1 min. 25 sec.

    Reason: To give credit for even distribution of difficulties in Short Program, not only in Free skating. This adjustment of the rule will get better balanced short programs, now most Skaters do all the difficult elements in the beginning of the program.


    Vocal Music for Singles and Pairs

    Skate Canada & Spanish Figure Federation:
    Delete deduction for vocal music in Junior and Senior Singles and Pairs

    Reason: To allow vocal music in junior and senior singles and pairs, bringing those disciplines in alignment with the ice dance and synchronized disciplines, and allowing Skaters the full range of musical options when designing programs. The use of vocal music has been very successful in the ice dance and synchronized disciplines. The television networks are requesting the use of vocal music in singles and pairs to increase the entertainment value for the viewing audience. The viewing audience (through all media) is essential for the visibility of the sport and the financial success of both the ISU and its members.

    ISU SPTC:
    Increase vocal music deduction to 2 points from 1 point currently

    Reasoning: The Committee discussed the proposal of Finland, Figure for a Technical Rules change which will allow vocal music in Singles and Pairs. As there are both positive and negative impacts of the proposed change, the Committee decided to leave the decision to the ISU Congress 2012 (of course if there will be a corresponding proposal for a change in Special Regulations). However in case of the Congress decision to allow vocal music, the Committee recommends to implement it only after OWG 2014. Up to that moment the Committee proposes to increase the deduction for vocal music to avoid any intentional violation of the Rule and to be in line with the Ice Dance violation of music restrictions.


    Costume Rules

    ISU SPTC:
    No kind of political, religious or racial propaganda is allowed on the costume.
    Reason: self-explanatory.

    The decoration on costumes must be non-detachable.
    Reason: to be in line with subparagraph 1. c) of the Ice Dance Technical Rules.


    Spin Positions and Levels

    ISU SPTC:
    • Remove language about "intermediate positions."
    • Define clearly layback and sideways leaning spins. (Layback Spin is an upright spin in which head and shoulders are leaning backward and the back arched. The position of the free leg is optional. Sideways Leaning Spin is an upright spin in which head and shoulders are leaning sideways and the body is arched. The position of the free leg is optional.)

    Reason: the SPTC does not consider the term “intermediate positions” as necessary any longer; however to give credit to variety in spin, in combinations one difficult variation in a non-basic position can still be counted to increase the Level; a change of position with a jump is planned as a separate Level feature; definitions of layback and sideways leaning spins must be given.


    Step/Moves Sequences Changes

    ISU SPTC:
    • Add "Step sequences must fully utilize the ice surface."
    • Remove language describing circular, straight line and serpentine step sequences separately.


    Reason: with the current requirements step sequences no longer have any described above (straight line, circular, serpentine) shape.


    Add the "Choreographic Sequence" to replace the Spiral sequence in Ladies and Pairs and the Choreo Step Sequence in Mens.

    A Choreographic Sequence consist of any kind of movements like steps, turns, spirals, arabesques, spread eagles, Ina Bauers, hydroblading, transitional (unlisted) jumps, spinning movements etc. A Choreographic Sequence for Ladies & Pairs must include at least one spiral (not a kick) of any length. The Sequence commences with the first move and is concluded with the last move of the Skater. The pattern is not restricted, but the Sequence must fully utilize the ice surface. If this requirement is not fulfilled, the Sequence will have no value. The Choreographic Sequence has to be performed later then the step sequence. The Choreographic Sequence has a base value and will be evaluated by the judges in GOE only.

    Reason: to allow more variety in the programs.


    Junior Short Program Requirements

    ISU SPTC:

    2013-14
    Singles: Loop (2Lo or 3Lo) is required solo jump in SP, flying spin is the sit spin, men have to do camel spin with only one change of foot.
    Pairs: SBS double loop or double axel jump. 2T or 3T throw. Toe Lasso lift. Pair change combo spin. BIDS.

    2013-15
    Singles: Lutz (2Lz or 3Lz) is required solo jump in SP, flying spin is the camel spin, men have to do sit spin with only one change of foot.
    Pairs: SBS double lutz. 2Lo or 3Lo throw. SBS change combo spin. FIDS.


    Senior Free Skate Requirements

    ISU SPTC:
    Men: change choreo step sequence to choreo sequence
    Ladies: change spiral sequence requirement to choreo sequence


    Pairs Lifts

    ISU SPTC: Remove language allowing up to 2 twist lifts. Now allow only 1 twist lift.
    Reason: the option with 2 twist lifts does not seem to be practical.


    Levels of Elements

    ISU SPTC:
    Lifts, twist lifts and death spirals (pairs), spins and steps (singles and pairs) are divided depending on their difficulty in five (5) Levels (instead of 4) according to the number of features achieved: Basic Level – in case of no features, Level 1 – in case of one feature, Level 2 – in case of two features, Level 3 – in case of three features and Level 4 – in case of four or more features.

    Reason: to give credit to Skaters who have achieved one Level feature in comparison with Skaters who did not achieve any Level features in a particular element.


    Free Skate Draw Changes

    ISU SPTC:
    There will be no draw for the order of skating in each group, competitors will skate in reverse order to their places in the preceding segment of the competition, that is, with the best placed Competitor skating last. The order of skating between tied Competitors shall be determined by a separate draw.

    Reason: To implement for the Free Skating the same practice as in the ISU Grand Prix Events.

    NOTE: ice dance technical committee did not propose to change the free dance draw. Yet...


    Ice Dance

    Short Dance Music Requirements

    ISU Ice Dance Technical Committee (IDTC):
    • The music may be without an audible rhythmic beat for up to 10 seconds at the beginning of the program.
    • The music must be selected in accordance with the designated rhythm(s) and/or theme(s).
    • The music must be selected in accordance with the specified tempo, when applicable.
    • Short Dance music that does not adhere to these specifications will be penalized by deduction(s) (see Rule 353, paragraph 1.n) (ii)).

    Reason: to extend the current deduction for incorrect Free Dance music to incorrect Short Dance music.


    Levels of Difficulty & Choreo Elements

    ISU Ice Dance Technical Committee (IDTC):
    All Required Elements are divided into four (4) Levels depending on their difficulty, except elements designated in the list of elements announced annually by the IDTC with a fixed Base Value. The description of characteristics that give an element a certain Level of Difficulty is published and updated in ISU Communications.

    Reason: to introduce the possibility to include Choreographic Required Elements in Short Dance and Free Dance.
    Last edited by HisWeirness; 02-04-2012 at 06:52 PM.

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    Thanks a lot for this excellent summary, HisWeirness.

    You are our treasure.

    Now let the and begin.

    Actually, most of those proposals aren't that bad.

    Although I hoped they could leave the numbers of skaters competing at Olympics in peace, at least.

    If you want the sport to develop, why reduce the competitive opportunities. Bastards.

    One change that I really really want to see.

    Ban flying upright spins in the short program.

    I can just about excuse pre-Novice skaters performing them but honestly, not Juniors and Seniors.

  3. #3
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    Delete deduction for vocal music in Junior and Senior Singles and Pairs
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :

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    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FAN View Post
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :
    ^This.

    Especially if it is connected to television wanting to make the sport nothing but entertainment. Seems like that would be a short road to a lot of crappy pop music at competitions. Because television networks aren't looking to boost ratings with arias from classic operas.

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    Definitely, the only really painful thing would be the reducing the number of free skaters in the Olympics. And quite honestly, I was expecting them to reduce the number in the competition altogether, so...of course, they might just do that in 2018 now.

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    As always, thank you HisWeirness for your hard work, and for being able to translate some of the gibberish that is in these documents.

    Re the proposed reduction in the number of couples in the pairs and dance finals at Olympics:
    The OWG represents the ice skating event of the highest level and with the highest world-wide media attention. For the sake of giving the world-wide audience the best possible impression a limitation in the duration and focus on quality should prevail.
    I don't think the problem in "giving...the best positive impression" is going to be solved by limiting the number of participants. That's the least of the problems. If anything, further limiting numbers is going to lead to even more trying to get the skaters high enough to get into the finals.

    Re the proposed costume limitations:
    No kind of political, religious or racial propaganda is allowed on the costume.
    Would that include "aboriginal" designs? And what about all the skaters who wear little crosses around their necks?
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

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    The Choreographic Sequence has to be performed later then the step sequence.
    Why? AFAIK, there aren't any rules regarding the order in which the other elements can be performed... that's very stifling creatively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MR-FAN View Post
    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :



    Noooooooooooooo
    Noooooooooooooooo


    Noooooooooooooooo to the Nooooooooooooooth power!

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    Quote Originally Posted by snoopysnake View Post
    Noooooooooooooo
    Noooooooooooooooo


    Noooooooooooooooo to the Nooooooooooooooth power!

    Another No from me.
    It's enough that we have to endure Ilinykh/ Katsalapov's "Ave Maria" rendition for the whole year.
    improving my ballad- like lines

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Why? AFAIK, there aren't any rules regarding the order in which the other elements can be performed... that's very stifling creatively.
    Currently in the senior men's LP the first step sequence is leveled and the second one is the "choreo" sequence with fixed base mark. So this is just extending that rule to ladies and pairs.

    From the choreographer's and skater's (and aesthetically oriented viewer's) perspective it's limiting.

    From the tech panel's perspective, it's much easier if they know automatically which sequence to count features on and which just to identify as "choreo" and relax until it's over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post

    From the tech panel's perspective, it's much easier if they know automatically which sequence to count features on and which just to identify as "choreo" and relax until it's over.
    Ah. That actually makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Currently in the senior men's LP the first step sequence is leveled and the second one is the "choreo" sequence with fixed base mark. So this is just extending that rule to ladies and pairs.

    From the choreographer's and skater's (and aesthetically oriented viewer's) perspective it's limiting.

    From the tech panel's perspective, it's much easier if they know automatically which sequence to count features on and which just to identify as "choreo" and relax until it's over.
    VERY limiting. I think it's an unnecessary restriction for ladies. The step sequence should be obviously different from the spiral / mitf sequence.

    For those who have experience running competitions with this scoring system, would it work for skaters to designate their leveled step sequence in their planned elements? It seems like that would be a much easier way to go.

    But I do love the bonus for jumps after 1:25 in the SP (yeah!)

    I think bringing age limits for GP in line with ISU championships will be well received, but I kind of liked it. I think it helped young skaters experience senior ranks on the GP without having pressure of earning spots at worlds weighing on them all season.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post

    I think bringing age limits for GP in line with ISU championships will be well received, but I kind of liked it. I think it helped young skaters experience senior ranks on the GP without having pressure of earning spots at worlds weighing on them all season.
    Didn't the ISU to try to propose it last year; and Russia of course introduced their own proposal which would just make the age for all ISU championships a year lower.

    I'm actually not sure countries with strong ladies will want that. But yes ISU it is an embarrassing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    I think bringing age limits for GP in line with ISU championships will be well received, but I kind of liked it. I think it helped young skaters experience senior ranks on the GP without having pressure of earning spots at worlds weighing on them all season.
    I like/liked it as well. IMO, it gives the younger skaters a chance to dip their toes into the water when it comes to senior competetion, but like you said, without the potential pressure of senior worlds weighing on them all season.

    I'm actually torn about the possibility of pairs and singles being allowed to use music with lyrics in it. I think it could definitely allow for some more creativity there and there are some choreographers/skaters who would probably come up with some really nice stuff we haven't seen before, but the trainwreck potential is so very high. In my dream world, I think what I would personally love to see is the ISU split the difference and allow lyrics in the SP but not in the LP.

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    Judges didn't even bother with deducting for Amodio. Maybe because it was a surprise? But why wouldn't they all immediately deduct? Because it was a delayed worlds?

    Part of the reason for quad going away was so many jumps after halfway point in free skates for bonus and how that was like equal to doing a quad or something but they're only 3 jumps in the SP but LP saw decline in difficulty of jumps and maybe you are seeing that in ladies this season and last season with Ando doing 5 jumps post halfway and doing the easiest content of her career. Maybe that is why they say the GOE factor doesn't change. Because bonus plus GOE increase is soo bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    I like/liked it as well. IMO, it gives the younger skaters a chance to dip their toes into the water when it comes to senior competetion, but like you said, without the potential pressure of senior worlds weighing on them all season.
    I also like it because it gives them a chance to show their stuff to the judges and have their names out there. So they get to present themselves as top-notch but just too young.

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    I don't like lyrics, I don't want Mambo #5 to be heard in competition. I like the fact the fact they are lowering the age of juniors but I wish they get rid of it and go strictly by ability and not by age.

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    I'm really torn about the vocals/lyrics. I personally don't like it as I feel it makes it too "exhibition" like, but if it gets the sport more airtime and exposure I can see why they want to do it, and I don't want to be so elitist that I exclude a new audience. There have been very very few routines I've liked with vocals, but I suppose it depends on the skater/coach's decision on what track to use. Mambo #5 would make me whoop my cookies, but some other Carmina Burana (just an example) or The Flower Duet from Lakme could be really beautiful. I very much enjoyed Butryskaya using the track from Bilitis that year as it's stunning music. Given it has no lyrics, it's just a human voice going "Ba da da da da...etc" it did give a lovely effect (even if the skating itself looked like she had one long bone from her hip to her ankle. Bend your knees damn it!).
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzisk8tr View Post
    I'm really torn about the vocals/lyrics. I personally don't like it as I feel it makes it too "exhibition" like, but if it gets the sport more airtime and exposure I can see why they want to do it, and I don't want to be so elitist that I exclude a new audience. There have been very very few routines I've liked with vocals, but I suppose it depends on the skater/coach's decision on what track to use. Mambo #5 would make me whoop my cookies, but some other Carmina Burana (just an example) or The Flower Duet from Lakme could be really beautiful. I very much enjoyed Butryskaya using the track from Bilitis that year as it's stunning music. Given it has no lyrics, it's just a human voice going "Ba da da da da...etc" it did give a lovely effect (even if the skating itself looked like she had one long bone from her hip to her ankle. Bend your knees damn it!).
    I have mixed feelings, too. I personally love the lack of vocals, but I don't completely know how the rule works. Would something with vocal oohing and aahing be acceptable under current rules?

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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    I have mixed feelings, too. I personally love the lack of vocals, but I don't completely know how the rule works. Would something with vocal oohing and aahing be acceptable under current rules?
    Yes as long as it is not recognisable words... rather a grey area. Here is the track Maria skated to that I mentioned earlier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6DpKaBoX3A See what I mean, sure sounds like words to me, but it fits the requirements so no deduction.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


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