What is the difference between a jump combination and a jump sequence?

[Bookslut]

Could someone explain?

[Aussie Willy]

Combination -two or three jumps done directly one after the other. The take off for the second and third jumps are always done from the landing of the previous jump.

Sequence - two jumps that have other content between them such as a turn or small jumps. Two axels done together will always be a sequence because the skater has to turn to do the second jump.

Hope that explains it.

[Sylvia]

From the ISU Technical Panel Handbook for Singles 2011/2012:

In a jump combination the landing foot of the first jump is the take off foot of the second. The same applies to the third jump. If the jumps are connected with a non-listed jump, the element is called a jump sequence; However halfloop (or “Euler”) (landing backwards) when used in combinations/sequences is considered as a listed jump with the Value of a single loop. When executed separately, half-loop stays as unlisted jump.

A jump combination may consist of the same or another single, double, triple or quadruple jump. There may be up to three jump combinations or jump sequences in the Free Program. One jump combination could consist of up to three (3) jumps, the other two up to two (2) jumps.

A jump sequence consists of any number of jumps that may be linked by nonlisted jumps and/or hops immediately following each other while maintaining the jump rhythm (knee); there can be no turns/steps (not even as an entry into a jump) during the sequence; there can be no crossovers or stroking. (Turns are three turns, twizzles, brackets, loops, counters, rockers. Steps are toe steps, chasses, mohawks, choctaws, curves with change of edge, cross-rolls, running steps).

[Iceman]

I wish they would allow more than 3 jumps in a combination.

[briancoogaert]

I wish they would allow more than 3 jumps in a combination.

Really ?
I think it's not good for the overall quality. A jump alone is often more beautiful than a combo. IMO, 3 combos are more than enough !
I miss programs like Kristi Yamaguchi's 1992 LP, Vanessa Gusmeroli's 2000 LP...with one opening combo, and that's it !

[Bookslut]

Thank you all, I get it now!

[zilam98]

I wish they would allow more than 3 jumps in a combination.

skaters are even struggling to land just a single jump down, what makes you think they can do more than 3 jumps in a combo?

[manhn]

Oh, how I wish I got to see more 2A/2T/2T/1T's!!!

[kwanfan1818]

Pairs skaters, especially, used to do wonderful, long jump sequences in their Free Skates, covering a lot of ice.

Multiple jumps combinations, in which both jumps have equal height and run out are rare enough when there are two jumps, but I think we're lucky to see a handful of good-great three-jump combos in any championship, prelims included.

[antmanb]

From the ISU Technical Panel Handbook for Singles 2011/2012:

If no steps or turns are allowed to be part of a sequence then how is it that 2A+2A is allowed to be a sequence? One lands on the RBO edge and there is a step to LFO edge to take off for the axel.

Similarly a lot of the pairs include a 3T and either 3T or 2T in sequence which nearly always includes a half loop with a step on a RBO for the take off of the toe-loop.

How does that all work?

[sk8girl]

Oh, how I wish I got to see more 2A/2T/2T/1T's!!!

[ioana]

Oh, how I wish I got to see more 2A/2T/2T/1T's!!!

I actually liked the roller skating-inspired sequences with edge jumps. The ones Marina Kielmann used to do would fit in that category. I know 2axel-L-L-2L-L-2L isn't the hardest thing in the world, but it demonstrated good control and proper landing positions. I thought they looked cool, but obviously YMMV .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHA091VZyo0#t=03m55s

[sk8girl]

If no steps or turns are allowed to be part of a sequence then how is it that 2A+2A is allowed to be a sequence? One lands on the RBO edge and there is a step to LFO edge to take off for the axel.

For 2A-2A sequences, they are usually connected by some sort of side hop, which fits the definition of a sequence. So, they will land the first 2A on the RBO edge, then do a quick side hop (L-R-L) that ends up on the LFO edge, which takes off into the second 2A. (This is for CCW skaters, obviously.) There needs to be some sort of little hop in there, not just a step forward from the first 2A landing directly into the second 2A.

[ioana]

There needs to be some sort of little hop in there, not just a step forward from the first 2A landing directly into the second 2A.

You would think stepping right into a second jump without an additional side toe hop would demonstrate more control, but apparently the ISU doesn't feel the same way.

[briancoogaert]

I actually liked the roller skating-inspired sequences with edge jumps. The ones Marina Kielmann used to do would fit in that category. I know 2axel-L-L-2L-L-2L isn't the hardest thing in the world, but it demonstrated good control and proper landing positions. I thought they looked cool, but obviously YMMV .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHA091VZyo0#t=03m55s

And Claudia Leistner's ? http://youtu.be/rvSWGlyd9vs?t=3m20s

[BigB08822]

skaters are even struggling to land just a single jump down, what makes you think they can do more than 3 jumps in a combo?

http://youtu.be/S3lT3dQoU10?t=2m5s

[Louis]

I think the ISU "ruled" that jumps stepping directly into an axel still count as a sequence.

During the first years of COP, there were instances where a 2A stepping directly into another 2A was called two separate elements. Skaters then ended up with one too many elements and were severely penalized.

[antmanb]

For 2A-2A sequences, they are usually connected by some sort of side hop, which fits the definition of a sequence. So, they will land the first 2A on the RBO edge, then do a quick side hop (L-R-L) that ends up on the LFO edge, which takes off into the second 2A. (This is for CCW skaters, obviously.) There needs to be some sort of little hop in there, not just a step forward from the first 2A landing directly into the second 2A.

You're absolutely right about the 2A's but e.g. how do S/S get away with the 3T sequence according to those rules, they do 3T-side hop-LFO three turn-step onto RBO edge-3T http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4a5FDDgtVg the turn is expressly outlawed in the rule Sylvia posted

[Macassar88]

I always liked Slutskaya's Triple Sal, Double Loop, 1/2 Loop, Double Sal combo

[gkelly]

You're absolutely right about the 2A's but e.g. how do S/S get away with the 3T sequence according to those rules, they do 3T-side hop-LFO three turn-step onto RBO edge-3T http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4a5FDDgtVg the turn is expressly outlawed in the rule Sylvia posted

I think they hopped the three turns, so they count as hops rather than turns on the ice.

No, they don't get very far off the ice, but enough to make that distinction.

That's my guess, anyway.