Should Rachael Flatt & Mirai Nagasu now retire?

[iarispiralllyof]

they should only retire if they want to. mirai has so much potential, and she is still quite young. i don't enjoy rachael's skating, but she really should be commended for being able to balance a respectable skating career with stanford.

basically, i'm a michelle fan, and considering that she had to endure taunts calling her to retire for the entire second half of her career, i can only be sympathetic towards other skaters who face similar criticism, whether it's rachael or fumie suguri.

basically, as long as they put the work in to be able to qualify at nationals...they have every right. and btw? i've always DETESTED the idea that older skaters should move on after a certain point to make room for the new girls. what a ridiculous notion! if they're good enough, they should step up to the plate!

[victoriaheidi]

I hate the idea that we should question whether or not they should retire.

In either case, though, I legitimately wouldn't be shocked if Rachael was considering it at this point. I doubt it would be a new thought to her. Yes, she's a 4CC alternate, and I think that's because she doesn't want to do anything official yet. But I would be far from shocked if she DID retire.

[Sasha'sSpins]

^This.

And to those who continue harping on Rachael for skating injured at Worlds when a "more than capable alternate was available," after Mirai's performance last night, how can anyone claim that sending her last year would have made things any different?

By the same token had Mirai performed at Worlds the way she did at 4CC's (or at the Olympics for that matter) she just might have helped earn those 3 spots back. We'll never know since she never got the chance to try.

Well, in 2010 and 2011, Nagasu improved from her Nationals skate at Olympics (2010) and 4CCs (2011).

From 2009 to 2011, Flatt left her best at Nationals, and her Worlds performance was always worse.

^^^
THIS!

^^ Nothing was really at stake for Nagasu at 2010 Olympics or 2011 4CCs. Nobody expected her to bring home an Olympic medal or get Worlds spots for the US ladies. So naturally she skated well. When expectations for Mirai go up, like at 2010 Worlds, she crumbles.

Look at Skate Canada. When everyone expected her to contend for a GPF spot, she bombs at that comp. The one week later, with virtually no chance for GPF, she grabs silver at COC.

I echo your sentiment.

[skateboy]

I hate the idea that we should question whether or not they should retire.

THIS.

When someone states that Skater X should retire, I think what's really being said is, "I don't like Skater X" or "Skater X isn't improving and I really don't want to have to watch anymore." Fair enough, I've felt the same way about certain skaters from time to time.

But suggesting retirement is another issue. We really don't know what compels an elite athlete to do what they do and there are probably a number of reasons why someone would choose or not choose to retire. It's definitely a big decision for someone who has spent their life pursuing an admirable dream.

[The Fly On The Wall]

How many media outlets said Mirai or Rachael was expected to medal at the Olympics? Nobody put pressure on them to keep the US ladies tradition of medaling at the Olympics alive.

Would Mirai have been a better option at 2011 Worlds than Rachael? Sure but no sure thing.

Well-said in both your posts. I know exactly what you were getting at.

[mrinalini]

Yes, no offense, but what a stupid question.

Even if they don't place in the top 10 for the rest of their careers, they shouldn't retire as long as they don't want to. Mirai is potentially the best in the US right now, and she's realized that potential to the extent that she's made it to the Olympics which is something the much older Alissa can't claim. I'm sure everyone was crowing for Alissa to throw in the towel years ago and look where she is now. As long as Mirai is committed to skating, she can place badly in the next couple of seasons and still end up rising to the top much like Alissa has.

Even Rachael isn't a gone case, IMO. She hasn't been her consistent self lately because her training has been affected, but if she should ever get the sports + studies combo under control, she'll go back to being Reliable Rachael, I should think. Yes, I don't think she'll ever be World/Olympic champion just because of the kind of skater that she is, but then no one would be left skating if that criterion had to be met.

[RockTheTassel]

If I were Rachael, I would probably retire after having a respectable last performance, a fantastic career as a national champion and Olympian, and a bright future ahead at a great university. But obviously it's Rachael's decision, and if she decides to continue, more power to her. If she does stop now, she can certainly look back on plenty of wonderful moments.

[sadya]

You never know what happens. Figure skating especially is a sport where the most unexpected can happen.

Prior to 1999 nobody believed Butyrskaya could ever be world champion, not even after her 1998 Euros win. She was past mid-20s when she won however. Her problems as far as becoming too nervous and as a result making mistakes remind me of Czisny nowadays and Kostner the past few years. But look at Kostner now! How many times have people said Kostner should stop, yet she won Grand Prix Final and Euros this season.

Kwan has been told she was washed up and should retire countless times. I remember even as soon as 1997 people writing she had nothing left to offer to the sport, how wrong they were as she bounced back within the same season her troubles started, by Worlds '97 she was back on track.

Many people were angry when Wylie was sent to Albertville saying he had had his time and, yet he went home with the silver.

There are many examples of skaters who eventually made it, even when things looked negative before. One day everything came together for them and they proved themselves they had been right in staying in competitions and proved their critics wrong.

This makes figure skating even more interesting.

[briancoogaert]

Rachael and Mirai are having a difficult season, but they are both talented, and it's not as if US have a lot of other good skaters.
I mean, if Alissa and Ashley can give 3 spots for 2013 Worlds, who knows who will be in the World team ? Mirai can.

[Marco]

If I were Rachael, I would probably retire after having a respectable last performance, a fantastic career as a national champion and Olympian, and a bright future ahead at a great university. But obviously it's Rachael's decision, and if she decides to continue, more power to her. If she does stop now, she can certainly look back on plenty of wonderful moments.

Word.

All I can think of is Fumie Suguri. She didn't retire on a good note after posting her best Olympic and World finish in 2006 but instead went on to miss qualifying for Worlds year after year after year, all the whilst just looking for a decent performance for closure.

Little did she know a decent performance never really came again. Finally this year she didn't even qualify for Nationals.

[Maofan7]

Yes, no offense, but what a stupid question

The very first post that set up the thread read:-

There has been a lot of talk about whether following U.S. Nationals, in which Flatt and Nagasu finished 6th & 7th respectively, they should now retire?

I think both Flatt and Nagasu can still be successful should they wish to continue. However, there is some hard thinking for both of them to do. Rachael needs to finally find an answer as to how she is going to balance university with skating. Her U.S. Nationals performance was a clear improvement on her grand prix skates, and I think that she can use that as a platform from which to build. Hence, things seem to be going in the right direction. As for Mirai, she has so much inherent talent, that for her to just give up would be a total waste of it. At the moment, she just seems so disenchanted. Accordingly, she needs to work out what the underlying problems are, address them, and resolve them. At the very least, I think she needs to get rid of the crazy commute.

You will note that it is my view that neither should retire. However, that does not get away from the fact that some people have been saying that they should (as evidenced by the fact that around 60% in the poll at the time of writing have voted that one or other of them should retire) and the thread was a reaction to that. That doesn't make those 60% who have voted in favour stupid. Hence the question was asked as its a reflection of what people have been saying. Nevertheless, it is my hope that the option that neither of them should retire will win out and the more people that vote for that option and set out in the thread why they should not retire to persuade others to do likewise, the more likely it is that that option will win out.

They should retire ONLY IF AND WHEN THEY WANT TO RETIRE.

Nobody has stated that either of them should be forced to retire. The question was couched of terms of whether those voting believed it was advisable for them to retire given current circumstances if they were in their shoes. The decision as to whether either skater does or doesn't retire is for them and them alone. As stated, it is my view that they shouldn't retire and that it is still possible for them to turn things around and make the 2014 Olympics.

[PashaFan]

Hey, I'm from England & we would kill to have Rachael OR Mirai skate for us !
Do you know if they fancy coming to live in blighty for a couple of British passports?!
I could have a word with the Queen the next time I go over for afternoon tea.
Liz is skating mad & would be happy to help !

[Jammers]

If Rachael wants to skate a couple more seasons fine by me but if she carries on like Suguri it will be even more embarrassing since Rachael at her best wasn't as good as Suguri. But Rachael's days of contending for anything are done.

[roma]

Nope. Let them skate till they themselves want to call it quits. How many times have we seen skaters being put down because they had a couple of down seasons only to see them improve after? Mao, Caroline, Caro, Akiko to name a few...

[os168]

Hey, I'm from England & we would kill to have Rachael OR Mirai skate for us !
Do you know if they fancy coming to live in blighty for a couple of British passports?!
I could have a word with the Queen the next time I go over for afternoon tea.
Liz is skating mad & would be happy to help !

LOL... bad idea!

I am from London too, and if we are to import anyone, I'd rather pick one of the Russian wonder babies please preferably JL (I doubt we will get to be so lucky). Although the thought of Mirai going on one of those UK university binge drinking parties did make me smile. She need to loosen up and find joy and spontaneity again some how. She has the talent, she just need to get it out there when it matters.

Rachel on the other hand has fully realized her potential already and well done her. Time to give it a rest and focus on the next chapter in her life. Stanford student life should be amazing and should demand her full attention.

[olifaunt]

Echoing the sentiment that neither should retire UNLESS that's what they want to do. Mirai still has buckets of talent. She just needs a change, whether it's in her coaching, her choreographer, her sports psychologist, whatever it takes to make her happy. Rachael isn't coming back from a broken leg anymore and she has more experience juggling school and skating. It's obvious that she still likes the sport enough to try jamming it into her schedule. I'd be quite happy to see them both around next year.

[modern_muslimah]

They should retire ONLY IF AND WHEN THEY WANT TO RETIRE.

^This. Why should fans have any say in when an athlete should retire?! Mirai and Rachael will leave the sport when they get good and ready to. To be honest, we shouldn't even be having this conversation.

[judgejudy27]

You never know what happens. Figure skating especially is a sport where the most unexpected can happen.

Prior to 1999 nobody believed Butyrskaya could ever be world champion, not even after her 1998 Euros win. She was past mid-20s when she won however. Her problems as far as becoming too nervous and as a result making mistakes remind me of Czisny nowadays and Kostner the past few years. But look at Kostner now! How many times have people said Kostner should stop, yet she won Grand Prix Final and Euros this season.

Maria was a late bloomer. Her international career basically started at 23, and she gradually got better for the next 3-4 years from there. The year she won Worlds she was actually the clear 2nd favorite in a weak transitional field so in theory it shouldnt be that surprising she won. She basically just waited out long enough for almost everyone to retire/decline/slump and then happened to peak at the exact right moment.


As others have said it will be their decision what to do of course. I got the impression like many others in this thread from Rachels reaction after her very good Nationals LP that it was her finale and I will be surprised if she doesnt announce her retirement from amateur skating shortly. Wouldnt be surprised to see her do some shows on the side in coming years. Nagasu I have no idea what will do. If she retired it wouldnt surprise me, but if she continues it wouldnt either. I hope if she continues she does not continue as she was going about things this sesaon though.

[olympic]

Maria was a late bloomer. Her international career basically started at 23, and she gradually got better for the next 3-4 years from there. The year she won Worlds she was actually the clear 2nd favorite in a weak transitional field so in theory it shouldnt be that surprising she won. She basically just waited out long enough for almost everyone to retire/decline/slump and then happened to peak at the exact right moment.


As others have said it will be their decision what to do of course. I got the impression like many others in this thread from Rachels reaction after her very good Nationals LP that it was her finale and I will be surprised if she doesnt announce her retirement from amateur skating shortly. Wouldnt be surprised to see her do some shows on the side in coming years. Nagasu I have no idea what will do. If she retired it wouldnt surprise me, but if she continues it wouldnt either. I hope if she continues she does not continue as she was going about things this sesaon though.

OT, but was Butyrskaya ever a top lady for the USSR? I don't remember her ever competing internationally prior to 1993 but due to her age, it's probable she was a respectable young Soviet teen skater on the USSR Nationals level amidst the likes of Lebedeva and Rachkova, or even in the era of Ivanova and Kondrashova in their later years ...

[berthesghost]

She took bronze at the last soviet nationals.

A lot of her bitterness seemed to revolve around the federation dumping her as a child as "unpromising" and thus she had to support herself coming up.