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  1. #1
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    Richard Dornbush performances

    NBC did not show Richard Dornbush's short program and maybe they won't even show his long program. I am hoping someone video taped them and put them on you tube. I especially love his "cowboy" number. Thanks

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    They will be on Icenetwork. Other than that, I don't know.

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    Dornbush skated a good FS, though his SP was horrid. His FS was the 5th highest of all the men, but he was so far back (17th) after the SP that even his high-scoring FS couldn't move him up that much.

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    I'd say that his FS was rated more highly by the judges than I would have rated it. The jumping passes were ok, not fabulous. But even discounting the jump issues, it was a performance that really lacked the spark and verve he had at nationals last year. His SP was awful, but his FS at Nationals didn't look hugely different to me than his FS looked in the fall. Not particularly the case that he had a fab fall and simply had one horrible day at Nationals.YMMV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    I'd say that his FS was rated more highly by the judges than I would have rated it. The jumping passes were ok, not fabulous. But even discounting the jump issues, it was a performance that really lacked the spark and verve he had at nationals last year. His SP was awful, but his FS at Nationals didn't look hugely different to me than his FS looked in the fall. Not particularly the case that he had a fab fall and simply had one horrible day at Nationals.YMMV.
    I consider myself an uber (which is a first for me!), and he wasn't at his best but every element he executes to completion is of high quality - fast, centered spins, high, rotated jumps, speed, and he does get into character much better than most other US men (except Abbott). Perhaps, the judges were considering that.

    You have a point, though. Even I as an uber would've ended his season at Nats if I were a USFSA official, but if you look at the 4CC assignments, he's listed as an alternate. The USFSA loves him obviously.

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    I just wish someone would put Ricky's sp and fp on you tube. I can't do a pay for skate right now.

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    Ricky is a talented skater -- he just had a rough season. Perhaps he felt a lot of pressure coming into 2011-2012 season being touted as the "highest scoring US man at 2011 Worlds." That really didn't mean much IMO, b/c both Ross and Ricky skated well at 2011 Worlds but were low-balled in the scores. I tend to believe that the pressure combined with training and competing the quad this season may have thrown off Ricky's timing and confidence. Hope he comes back strong next season. Ricky's fp from 2010-2011 was extraordinarily good b/c it highlighted his strengths combined with good music and wonderful choreography. It might serve Ricky well if he could rework his current sp into a fp, or keep his current sp for next season and look for interesting music to craft a new fp that can highlight his strengths in the way that his Sherlock Holmes program accomplished. It seemed to help Ross that he kept his sp from last season and found dramatic music and good choreo for a new fp.

    Unfortunately, Ricky might have been better served by USFS showing their support and belief in him in another way, and simply allowing Armin to compete at 4CC as a reward for his great showing at Nats. I was impressed by Armin's decision to switch coaches late in the season, and by how well he competed at Nats, especially in the sp when he had to follow Jeremy Abbott. Armin was able to rise to the occasion and use the energy in the arena to his advantage.

    I feel the U.S. men have such great depth, and it is unfortunate so many talented U.S. men can not compete at Worlds. It is too bad that so much emphasis has been placed on the quad, sometimes to the exclusion of rewarding well-rounded athleticism and artistry. I believe this is a problem b/c the sport did not have the vision to really examine how the quad would impact the men's field -- that it wouldn't simply evolve as a matter of course -- that it was a hugely difficult element to incorporate for many skaters -- that its impact would be felt in many ways through injuries, through affecting for many skaters the rhythm and technique of their other jumps, as well as the endurance factor of performing quads. A lot of these issues should have been addressed sooner. There was a need for clear and definitive guidelines to be set, instead of fluctuating back and forth on the importance of including quads.

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    ^ Well said, aftershocks. I'm no "techie," but Ricky had a great comeback in the free skate. Anyone can have a tough performance/tough season(s). Never count him or anyone else out!

    re: 4CC, as much as I like Ricky, I do wish Armin had been given the opportunity to compete there.

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    ITA paskatefan! Ricky came back well at Nats in his fp. I think he had a really good sp this season too which in some respects I like more than his fp this season (although both were pretty good). One of the difficulties for Ricky this season may have been how much time it took to develop both programs. His original sp to Tennesse Ernie Ford's 16 Tons, as I recall, was scrapped for his revamped sp to classical music (Beethoven's Symphony No. 5). I really liked this new sp, but perhaps Ricky didn't have enough time to train it to the point where he was completely comfortable with it? And then during the course of the season, I believe Ricky and his coach made some adjustments to his fp too.

    As I said, it might serve Ricky well to hold onto this season's sp, and focus on finding something unique for a new fp that highlights his strengths and provides him with a challenge for further development and growth as a skater.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 02-23-2012 at 05:18 AM. Reason: Great comeback at Nats, not at 4CC

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ITA paskatefan! Ricky came back well at Nats and at 4CC in his fp.
    Were we watching the same thing? Ricky barely cracked 100 for that pitiful 4CC freeskate.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    His original sp to Tennesse Ernie Ford's 16 Tons, as I recall, was scrapped for his revamped sp to classical music (Beethoven's Symphony No. 5). I really liked this new sp, but perhaps Ricky didn't have enough time to train it to the point where he was completely comfortable with it?
    Dornbush debuted the Beethoven SP (violin performance by David Garrett) at Skate America in October so I don't think training time was the issue. My feeling is that the music tempo may have been almost too frantic/fast, resulting in him rushing his jumps in the SP. ETA: Skate America was the closest he came to a "clean" SP in 4 attempts this season (70.03) - he landed all his jumps but received < on his 3A and 'e' on his 3F.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 02-22-2012 at 06:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    I feel the U.S. men have such great depth, and it is unfortunate so many talented U.S. men can not compete at Worlds. It is too bad that so much emphasis has been placed on the quad, sometimes to the exclusion of rewarding well-rounded athleticism and artistry. I believe this is a problem b/c the sport did not have the vision to really examine how the quad would impact the men's field -- that it wouldn't simply evolve as a matter of course -- that it was a hugely difficult element to incorporate for many skaters -- that its impact would be felt in many ways through injuries, through affecting for many skaters the rhythm and technique of their other jumps, as well as the endurance factor of performing quads. A lot of these issues should have been addressed sooner. There was a need for clear and definitive guidelines to be set, instead of fluctuating back and forth on the importance of including quads.
    OMG, don't let caseyedwards read this, she'll implode!!!!

    Seriously, totally agree all around. Unfortunately, the winning men's program at the Vancouver Olympics ignited the quad controversy yet again (mostly due to griping on the part of the second-place finisher, but that's old news/old threads). My big gripe about COP is that we're seeing the death of the truly well-rounded program. The quad back and forth is frustrating as are many aspects of COP (remember when we had ladies skaters who actually tried to include all the triples save perhaps axel in their programs and who did beautiful spins instead of ugly but difficult position spins, etc. to rack up points?). There needs to be some balance achieved somewhere instead of pushing skaters to risk injury or all programs starting to look very cookie cutter instead of unique.
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    Were we watching the same thing? Ricky barely cracked 100 for that pitiful 4CC freeskate.
    My bad re the reference that Ricky came back strong at 4CC. (Thanks -- I will edit)

    Thanks for the points you made too Sylvia re Ricky's sp debut, etc.

    Completely agree with your points Yazmeen. That's why programs like Jeremy's and Dai's this season (I like Adam's programs too, esp. his sp) are such standouts for their gorgeous choreo and presentation that overcome the strictures and limitations of IJS.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 02-23-2012 at 05:28 AM.

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    Does anyone think he might change coach?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukari Lepisto View Post
    Does anyone think he might change coach?
    I almost didn't want to bring it up. He and Tammy seemed to have good chemistry. He has good technique [for the most part], speed and musicality, and he's been with her since the beginning. So, I would think she gave him that good technique. On paper, the relationship looks good.

    However, who knows? Maybe she a Priscilla Hill type; 'big sister' or 'mom' personality, rather than a stern disciplinarian when necessary.

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    Oh no! When all else fails, blame the coach??? Seriously, I don't know enough about Tammy Gambill and her coaching skills and her relationship with Richard, but I definitely would not presume to suggest that Ricky's problems this season mean he needs to switch coaches. When everything is peachy keen, the view is "What a great team they make," "What a wonderful relationship they have." As soon as the skater runs into problems with subpar performances, "Boy, that coach has got to go!" And, jeez, in the process of throwing Tammy out with the baby and the bath water, why cast negative aspersions on Priscilla Hill?!!!

    Again, what do I know? -- However, as I mentioned previously, perhaps it has been the pressure of coming back this season being touted as "a top U.S. men's skater" and also the difficulties of training the quad which may have thrown off Ricky's rhythm and confidence on all of his jumps.

    Looking on the bright side, I wish Richard and Tammy lots of good luck and a fresh perspective that will lead to renewed success. To Tammy's credit, she has additional young talent in junior skater, Philip Warren, who performed quite well at Nats winning the bronze medal in the Junior Men's event.

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    I haven't seen Dornbush this season, but someone on another blog mentioned that it looked as if he were bigger this season. Maybe he has grown since last season? It doesn't take much to throw triples and quads off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Oh no! When all else fails, blame the coach??? Seriously, I don't know enough about Tammy Gambill and her coaching skills and her relationship with Richard, but I definitely would not presume to suggest that Ricky's problems this season mean he needs to switch coaches. When everything is peachy keen, the view is "What a great team they make," "What a wonderful relationship they have." As soon as the skater runs into problems with subpar performances, "Boy, that coach has got to go!" And, jeez, in the process of throwing Tammy out with the baby and the bath water, why cast negative aspersions on Priscilla Hill?!!!

    Again, what do I know? -- However, as I mentioned previously, perhaps it has been the pressure of coming back this season being touted as "a top U.S. men's skater" and also the difficulties of training the quad which may have thrown off Ricky's rhythm and confidence on all of his jumps.

    Looking on the bright side, I wish Richard and Tammy lots of good luck and a fresh perspective that will lead to renewed success. To Tammy's credit, she has additional young talent in junior skater, Philip Warren, who performed quite well at Nats winning the bronze medal in the Junior Men's event.
    Young skaters are usually reliant on the coach to direct and call the shots. But even so, I wasn't blaming Tammy. My last post was more pontification about the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    I haven't seen Dornbush this season, but someone on another blog mentioned that it looked as if he were bigger this season. Maybe he has grown since last season? It doesn't take much to throw triples and quads off.
    Didn't think about that. Hmmm. Maybe that's the issue.

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    Just rewatched his JGPF, Nationals and Worlds performances from last season. He was rock solid for the most part. Can't blame the USFS for giving him a chance after bombing the short program of Nationals 2012.

    However, now that he failed to validate the controversial decision to send him to 4CCs, I think the USFS will be very cautious about him come next season. Maybe he will still have a B assignment or even a GP if he regains his consistency during the fall season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    I haven't seen Dornbush this season, but someone on another blog mentioned that it looked as if he were bigger this season. Maybe he has grown since last season? It doesn't take much to throw triples and quads off.
    This icenetwork article says he is 5'11" http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news. On his skater bio he is listed as 5'8", and on his isu bio the same (173 cm). If he has in fact grown 3 inches since last season that could definitely throw his timing off, especially because his jumps were never really "big" to begin with (he has good technique and they cover a lot of distance, but don't go UP as much as some of the other men's). He also looks broader/stronger through the upper body this season to me.

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