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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by change of edge View Post
    ^very well said.

    I actually think Mirai wants to win as much as anyone else. It's just that she fears failure more than other people do, so she's had to develop defense mechanisms to cope. All that pre-competition talk to lower expectations is probably just her way to lessen the pressure that she puts on herself to win.
    I disagree here. Of course Nagasu wants to win, but a will to win is shown by actions. Its shown by giving everything to a program/performance/not giving up. Its also shown digging in and putting the hard work in training. She may want it, but does she want it as much as Michelle did-No.

  2. #42
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    So it pretty much comes down to this... Mirai needs to fix something in her mind (although there is no consensus), so she should go work with sports psychologist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Nobody doubts that Mirai is more than talented enough to be a major champion in this sport. I think what people question is if Mirai wants it bad enough to put in the hard work necessary.... For me Frank's words last year about Nagasu having motivation issues because of her "great Olympic season" were really telling IMO.

    Mirai finished fourth at the Olympics; and while it was a great showing. One would think that showing would also make her a bit angry/hungry. I.e I was that close; I'm going to work that much harder so that I win that World title next year. Instead the next year; we have her coach saying she was hard to motivate. If just missing an Olympic medal doesn't motivate you, what will? I hoped last year was a wakeup call but well it wasn't.

    I think that's the issue people have with Mirai. I don't think people had similar motivation questions about the other girls you mentioned. I don't recall ever seeing Kostner or Alissa even at their most disasterous skates; phoning in performances.

    And as for Mirai's just in a slump. It seems to me most of Mirai's senior career has been a slump. She's been eligible for four world teams, and has only made one. And that was after winning the National title as an age ineligible skater.
    She should have made two World teams imo. I'll always believe she should have gone to Worlds over Flatt. And I still have faith in Mirai-IF she wants it, and that's a big if I still say she can turn it around. Sochi is 2 years away and it's not over til it's over.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    I don't think she has the work ethic and never has. She's always stated she'd rather go to the beach than train. She's got by on talent, but that isn't enough if you want to be a competitive skater. Zhang and Wagner are too good examples of skater who do have that ethic. Zhang has worked has butt off to get where she is and I think the results of this competition will make her work all the harder. Alisa and Carolina have gone through some rough patches, but they've persevered because they trained harder when things weren't working. Their competitive careers are going to end on a high note. I've always had the impression Mirai liked being a champion but she didn't want to work for it. You can fix skating problems if the skater is willing to do the work. Mirai doesn't know how to fight. No coach can give her that. It has to be something inside the individual that pushes them to succeed.
    Again-I disagree. Paul Wylie wasn't even considered worthy by some to be on the '92 Olympic team-remember the reporter who asked him 'what are you doing here? And for once in his career he shown-and at the most important time. It happened for Mirai at her Olympics but against very tough competition from the 3 who placed above her. It could happen for her again and perhaps next time she'll win.

    The beach thing again-most athletes I am sure would rather go to the beach than train. I don't think Mirai was sitting around at the beach. She was ROCKING the practices per reports. As I said to the other poster there is still time for Mirai to turn this around-if she wants to. I'm not giving up on her. If she doesn't make the Sochi team and still wants to skate I'm going to be there rooting her on. If she decides at some point that skating isn't for her I will be sad but I will support her decision.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Mirai has 2 choices IMO-

    1. Quit. See ya. I'm more interested in living a 'normal' life. Go to college. Decide on a career. Maybe come back to skating as an official or something when she's older.

    If she wants to continue skating -

    2. See a therapist (if she isn't already) to work out her relationship with her parents / family (I think she's alluded to the fact that she feels a lot of 'demand' from them) her self-esteem (I don't deserve things in life and I'm not pretty) Scott during the broadcast said someone in the audience yelled out her name during the LP and she turned to look. It sounds like she is abnormally distracted.

    3. Leave FC - Logistically, the drive is too long and psychologically, the relationship is stale. It also looks like from their body language that they only annoy and frustrate each other. I remember the stories a couple of years ago about how tough he was with her, but I'll bet she's developed a coping mechanism of 'passive resistance' to him because she might resent it after so long. That is ruining her skating career faster than anything else. On a lesser note, I think she might feel now as an adult that she's entitled to more input in her programs and FC is ironclad in his training system. FC is probably beyond frustrated that he has the biggest talent in the world, but can't make it happen.

    I would recommend going to someone like RA who is 1) much closer, 2) trains at a rink at altitude, and 3) has a rep as a good jump coach. RA already has experience training Mao, whose body type and jump technique was similar to Mirai's

    I don't have the answers, just my $.02
    ^^^
    THIS!

    I love Frank but more and more I am starting to feel that maybe he's taken Mirai as far as he can. Charlene Wong took Mirai as far as she could. Athletes have been known to change coaches until they find the right fit-as has happened for Ashley Wagner. If Mirai still wants it-first she's got to grow up and take control of her life and her training schedule. I completely agree that she needs to work with a sports psychologist. And I think RA would work great for Mirai-and hopefully find a choreographer that can bring out Mirai's sparkle again. Her PCS scores have been on a downward spiral only she and Frank can't seem to understand why. I agree with the poster who said in another thread that Mirai is not Michelle Kwan but sometimes Frank seems to think so. She can not pull off choreo like "Spartacus". And the music is all wrong for her.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post

    She can not pull off choreo like "Spartacus". And the music is all wrong for her.
    There wasn't much to that Spartacus program to begin with. Lori misfired with this one.

  7. #47
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    I think Mirai definitely needs a sports psychologist. Remember when she beat Caroline Zhang who was hailed as the next big thing? She was a non-entity before that nationals and she goes and wins it. At Junior Worlds, when she has a bit more expectation she doesn't do as well as places second. She competes in the JGP while Zhang competes in Senior. At nationals, she is forgotten and completely destroys the competition in the SP landing a triple-triple. In the free, she falls on a double axel but still skates a seven triple program but definitely more tentative and cautious than the great SP. She has pressure again, and lands in third at the JW. Next year was when she had a big growth spurt and injuries, sso I won't discuss that. But the next year, she comes to nationals with less pressure (Flatt and Cohen were the ones people had their eye on) and makes the team. At the Olympics, there is no expectation and she skates two clean programs and lands in fourth. At worlds, she skates another inspired SP and is first. Feeling the pressure, she buckles and doesn't even medal. And since then, there has been an expectation for her to deliver because she has EVERYTHING aside from perhaps a true outside edge on her lutz.. she skates with speed, she has wonderful posture, great extension, difficult and beautiful spins, great musicality (when she wants to perform and not skating tentatively) and she can do triple-triples and is practicing triple axles (albeit not landing it fully turned as of yet). She needs a shrink badly.. or she needs to skate as if there is no pressure. If she is skating cleanly in practices, I don't think she's not not practicing. And she would be fired by FC is she didn't have at least a bit of discipline methinks. It is totally in the head, she expects a lot for her because she'd be an idiot not to realize how bloody talented she is. Everyone sees that. Now she needs to be able to calm her nerves and do it when it counts..

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    There wasn't much to that Spartacus program to begin with. Lori misfired with this one.
    This is true. That program is just awful, the worst Mirai has ever done.

    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    To be fair, practice reports at Nationals said that Mirai was amazing in practice, so she had definitely trained. I think the problem (besides her coaching situation) is her head. She needs to see a sports psychologist. They have wonderful things to other headcases, and they can do the same to Mirai.
    This, in a nutshell, is what I keep saying over and over again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom(skating-wise) to put things into perspective. It allows you to take a step back and look at things in a different light. Ashley, Caroline, Carolina and Alissa have all been there and have obviously grown from their experiences. Maybe Mirai can do the same.
    Maybe. I hope so. If people want to write Nagasu off, are 'over her' whatever. I'll still be there rooting for her until she figures out what it is she wants to do. If Mirai re-dedicates herself to her sport and really turns it around I'll be the happiest fan in the world. If she decides to retire I'll be sad but I'll still wish her all the best life can offer her.

    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Jeez how many times does mirai need to hit rock bottom and rebound only to bottom out all over again before she learns these lessons? After she imploded at 2009 nats not even coming close to defending her title or making the world team, she made major changes, new coach etc.. And rebound to finish an impressive 4th in Vancouver. If she didn't learn anything from that, she's a lost cause.
    Sorry but I find it difficult to write off an 18 year old with loads of talen and many young years ahead of her as a 'lost cause'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    How many times did Alissa turn in one bombed skate after another before finding some semblance of consistency(sketchy at that)? Ditto Carolina Kostner. Sorry but life isn't always simple. Sometimes growth takes time.
    Well put. Some seem to think one only gets to hit rock-bottom once in their lives and then they don't deserve any more chances. Sorry-not me. I think this is the lowest point of Mirai's career and I hope she re-groups. I'm going to keep on believing.

    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    So it pretty much comes down to this... Mirai needs to fix something in her mind (although there is no consensus), so she should go work with sports psychologist.
    Yep. And I hope Mirai considers seeing one (if she isn't already).

    Quote Originally Posted by maharbabackward View Post
    I think Mirai definitely needs a sports psychologist. Remember when she beat Caroline Zhang who was hailed as the next big thing? She was a non-entity before that nationals and she goes and wins it. At Junior Worlds, when she has a bit more expectation she doesn't do as well as places second. She competes in the JGP while Zhang competes in Senior. At nationals, she is forgotten and completely destroys the competition in the SP landing a triple-triple. In the free, she falls on a double axel but still skates a seven triple program but definitely more tentative and cautious than the great SP. She has pressure again, and lands in third at the JW. Next year was when she had a big growth spurt and injuries, sso I won't discuss that. But the next year, she comes to nationals with less pressure (Flatt and Cohen were the ones people had their eye on) and makes the team. At the Olympics, there is no expectation and she skates two clean programs and lands in fourth. At worlds, she skates another inspired SP and is first. Feeling the pressure, she buckles and doesn't even medal. And since then, there has been an expectation for her to deliver because she has EVERYTHING aside from perhaps a true outside edge on her lutz.. she skates with speed, she has wonderful posture, great extension, difficult and beautiful spins, great musicality (when she wants to perform and not skating tentatively) and she can do triple-triples and is practicing triple axles (albeit not landing it fully turned as of yet). She needs a shrink badly.. or she needs to skate as if there is no pressure. If she is skating cleanly in practices, I don't think she's not not practicing. And she would be fired by FC is she didn't have at least a bit of discipline methinks. It is totally in the head, she expects a lot for her because she'd be an idiot not to realize how bloody talented she is. Everyone sees that. Now she needs to be able to calm her nerves and do it when it counts..
    So the majority seem to agree-she needs to really WANT it, if not she should quit, if she does want it, she needs to seek out a sports psychologist.

    Btw, on the lutz, it really bugs me that she hasn't seemed to work much on this. Someone with such good basics overall should have a clean outside edge on that lutz by now. Or perhaps it's easier said than done? Could a coach like Raphael help her improve on this?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    So it pretty much comes down to this... Mirai needs to fix something in her mind (although there is no consensus), so she should go work with sports psychologist.
    Um, no. I don't think there's anything wrong with her mind. If someone isn't into skating for whatever reason, there's nothing wrong with that and no need to see a psychologist.

    I do have to say all this pathologizing of Mirai (eg. she has issues! she needs a psychologist! she's just pretending to want to do other things more than skating to set expectations low!) is more a projection of what some fans desperately hope than reflective of any reality.

    And I should say, Mirai is by far my favorite US skater (and really fav skater next to Mao Asada). But to me it's pretty clear her heart isn't into skating anymore. Some things just are what they are.

    :sigh:

  10. #50

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    ANY program is going to look terrible if the skater performs it with a blank look on her face from start to finish. Mirai had zero involvement with the music---her movements were robotic, and never reflected the ebb and flow of what is a highly dramatic and emotional piece.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    I disagree here. Of course Nagasu wants to win, but a will to win is shown by actions. Its shown by giving everything to a program/performance/not giving up. Its also shown digging in and putting the hard work in training. She may want it, but does she want it as much as Michelle did-No.
    What a contrast to how each responded by their breakthrough of coming 4th in a major event. Kwan used it to light a fire under her ass and make sure there was no way she was ever going to land 7 triples and be placed off the podium at a major event again. Then next year as a completely transformed skater she rips the World title away from the defending Champion in a historic duel despite the defending Champion skating her very best. Nagasu seemed to coast and rest on her laurels at that point, and is now dropping into the pack in the U.S.

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    Sounds like Frankie might "fire" another pupil.

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by maharbabackward View Post
    I think Mirai definitely needs a sports psychologist. Remember when she beat Caroline Zhang who was hailed as the next big thing?
    I remember someone here (I forget who) had a sig line that went: "Suck it, Zhang. I rule. And I WEAR PINK RAINCOAT MATERIAL."

    Still one of the best sig lines ever.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
    Old, lonely, pathos-hungry, and extremely gullible

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    Quote Originally Posted by centerstage01 View Post

    She didn't have this expression several years ago. What brought this on?? It's not like everyone around her is telling her her skating sucks and she's got crap technique and her win four years ago was a fluke.
    Gee, I dunno....maybe she's been reading here???
    Last edited by The Fly On The Wall; 01-30-2012 at 03:37 AM. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly On The Wall View Post
    Gee, I dunno....maybe she's been reading here???
    If people are hard on here its in someways because they do believe in the girl's talent. I actually don't want Mirai to retire; I think she's incredibly talented and would love to see her get it together. But I'm also a bit tired of the excuses. A good example would be when she got off the ice she told Frank; I think I was concentrating to much on my facial expressions. Well the thing is I watched that skate; and that was pretty expressionless.

    The thing is though I'd like to see her be happy. If skating isn't what she wants to do right now-its okay. I guess I'm not holding my breath.

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    Far be it from me to even pretend to read her mind, but....I agree with whoever posted that she has such a fear of failure, she downplays her expectations. I compete in another sport and practice wonderfully....but the second it's showtime, I freeze, hold back, make stupid mistakes, etc., etc. It's not that I don't want it or that I'm not motivated. I work harder and longer than anyone on my team. But with several years' history of this pattern, it's always at the back of my mind that it's going to happen again. If this is what Mirai is experiencing, I wouldn't be surprised. I bet we'll never know though.
    Last edited by The Fly On The Wall; 01-30-2012 at 08:41 AM. Reason: 'cause I'm an idiot who can't type. (Addition bolded.)

  17. #57

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    The more I think about it, I think she's afraid to go back to worlds because of what happened last time she was there (1st to 7th). The more time that passes, the worse it gets.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

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    She looked so bored skating at Nationals, like she was doing a practice runthrough. She didnt fight for anything. What the heck was her comment she was concentrating too much on facial expressions. She had the expression of a zombie her whole program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    The more I think about it, I think she's afraid to go back to worlds because of what happened last time she was there (1st to 7th). The more time that passes, the worse it gets.
    It is hard to believe she was a good long program away from becoming World Champion only 2 years ago. That seems like an enternity ago when you look at her now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly On The Wall View Post
    Far be it from me to even pretend to read her mind, but....I agree with whoever posted that she has such a failure, she downplays her expectations. I compete in another sport and practice wonderfully....but the second it's showtime, I freeze, hold back, make stupid mistakes, etc., etc. It's not that I don't want it or that I'm not motivated. I work harder and longer than anyone on my team. But with several years' history of this pattern, it's always at the back of my mind that it's going to happen again. If this is what Mirai is experiencing, I wouldn't be surprised. I bet we'll never know though.
    Yes but Mirai herself and her coaches have said she has motivation issues. Its not like people are pulling it from air. Maybe she was well trained here, but thats not every case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by modern_muslimah View Post
    I don't get the sense that motivation was the issue for Mirai this season. Frank hasn't indicated that this is the case this season. Additionally, Mirai looked fit and practice reports indicated that she was fit and focused during practice. Additionally, Mirai did summer competitions to get her programs out early. So I don't motivation is the issue.
    As mentioned, I've watched her in practices and thought she looked very well trained and secure in everything. So you are probably right--the motivation and the work ethic are not the issue. Something else is, not sure what. She was looking very fit and ready in practice although there was no joy in her skating at any point.
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