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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    I think she needs to change it up. Frank is an awesome coach but if it's not working it's not working.



    And a World medallist.

    Mirai is only 18 years old. Skaters like Alissa and Carolina Kostner seemed to find their mojo after 20. Carolina Zhang and Ashley too are proof that even if it's not happening year in, year out one shouldn't give up on the dream. Mirai may still find what it is that she needs to get her over that hump. I don't believe she's done yet, nor should she be done yet. She's in a slump but she can get past it with lots and lots of hard work, and perseverance.
    I don't think she has the work ethic and never has. She's always stated she'd rather go to the beach than train. She's got by on talent, but that isn't enough if you want to be a competitive skater. Zhang and Wagner are too good examples of skater who do have that ethic. Zhang has worked has butt off to get where she is and I think the results of this competition will make her work all the harder. Alisa and Carolina have gone through some rough patches, but they've persevered because they trained harder when things weren't working. Their competitive careers are going to end on a high note. I've always had the impression Mirai liked being a champion but she didn't want to work for it. You can fix skating problems if the skater is willing to do the work. Mirai doesn't know how to fight. No coach can give her that. It has to be something inside the individual that pushes them to succeed.
    Adelina Sotnikova defeated the curse of Esta She is indeed the Greatest Of All Time!

  2. #22
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    Mirai has 2 choices IMO-

    1. Quit. See ya. I'm more interested in living a 'normal' life. Go to college. Decide on a career. Maybe come back to skating as an official or something when she's older.

    If she wants to continue skating -

    2. See a therapist (if she isn't already) to work out her relationship with her parents / family (I think she's alluded to the fact that she feels a lot of 'demand' from them) her self-esteem (I don't deserve things in life and I'm not pretty) Scott during the broadcast said someone in the audience yelled out her name during the LP and she turned to look. It sounds like she is abnormally distracted.

    3. Leave FC - Logistically, the drive is too long and psychologically, the relationship is stale. It also looks like from their body language that they only annoy and frustrate each other. I remember the stories a couple of years ago about how tough he was with her, but I'll bet she's developed a coping mechanism of 'passive resistance' to him because she might resent it after so long. That is ruining her skating career faster than anything else. On a lesser note, I think she might feel now as an adult that she's entitled to more input in her programs and FC is ironclad in his training system. FC is probably beyond frustrated that he has the biggest talent in the world, but can't make it happen.

    I would recommend going to someone like RA who is 1) much closer, 2) trains at a rink at altitude, and 3) has a rep as a good jump coach. RA already has experience training Mao, whose body type and jump technique was similar to Mirai's

    I don't have the answers, just my $.02

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Nobody doubts that Mirai is more than talented enough to be a major champion in this sport. I think what people question is if Mirai wants it bad enough to put in the hard work necessary.... For me Frank's words last year about Nagasu having motivation issues because of her "great Olympic season" were really telling IMO.

    Mirai finished fourth at the Olympics; and while it was a great showing. One would think that showing would also make her a bit angry/hungry. I.e I was that close; I'm going to work that much harder so that I win that World title next year. Instead the next year; we have her coach saying she was hard to motivate. If just missing an Olympic medal doesn't motivate you, what will? I hoped last year was a wakeup call but well it wasn't.

    I think that's the issue people have with Mirai. I don't think people had similar motivation questions about the other girls you mentioned. I don't recall ever seeing Kostner or Alissa even at their most disasterous skates; phoning in performances.

    And as for Mirai's just in a slump. It seems to me most of Mirai's senior career has been a slump. She's been eligible for four world teams, and has only made one. And that was after winning the National title as an age ineligible skater.
    To be fair, practice reports at Nationals said that Mirai was amazing in practice, so she had definitely trained. I think the problem (besides her coaching situation) is her head. She needs to see a sports psychologist. They have wonderful things to other headcases, and they can do the same to Mirai.

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    Quote Originally Posted by modern_muslimah View Post
    I don't get the sense that motivation was the issue for Mirai this season. Frank hasn't indicated that this is the case this season. Additionally, Mirai looked fit and practice reports indicated that she was fit and focused during practice. Additionally, Mirai did summer competitions to get her programs out early. So I don't motivation is the issue.

    Mirai doesn't look happy when she's skating in competition and lately, she looks scared as hell. I really think she needs a coaching change and/or a sports psychology. She has known issues with her confidence and staying the moment in competition, especially after she makes a mistake. Instead of moving on, it seems she stays stuck on the mistake and it just snowballs, causing more mistakes.

    She's going to have to make a major change and also take more ownership of her skating as well. I really think that would help a lot in giving her more confidence. Maybe Mirai needs to pick her music, her programs, her choreographer. She needs to be more introspective and figure out who she is as a skater. She's 18 now, so she and only she needs to owns her skating.

    If Spartacus doesn't inspire her, don't skate to it! If something upbeat inspires her, then skate to it! I don't think her coaches, choreographer or parents can do this for her.
    I have a hard time thinking motivation isn't an issue with Mirai-even now. Look at how annoyed the US commentators are with Mirai, and how much nicer they are towards people like Alissa (who also struggle with consistency issues)

    She's certainly not skating like she wants it; she's been phoning in performances all season long.


    To be fair, practice reports at Nationals said that Mirai was amazing in practice, so she had definitely trained. I think the problem (besides her coaching situation) is her head. She needs to see a sports pyschologist. They have wonderful things to other headcases, and they can do the same to Mirai.
    Practices don't always mean everything though. Mirai is an incredible talent who probably can practice well. Its when the pressure is on that the work really shows. Maybe the issue here wasn't lack of training but I think its clear something is wrong. And I have a hard time thinking that Frank (and I believe Lori) would be as annoyed looking with Mirai as they look if Mirai was doing what they were asking her to do.

    My thing is for Mirai herself to say that she needs Evan to help motivate her is just a bit much for me. Sure a good training partner can definetely help; but big time champions are motivated internally.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    My thing is for Mirai herself to say that she needs Evan to help motivate her is just a bit much for me. Sure a good training partner can definetely help; but big time champions are motivated internally.
    Yes, I was very troubled when Mirai said that.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    Yes, I was very troubled when Mirai said that.
    The thing is that I think Mirai is very talented and I'm not sure I blame her if she's "not all in skating" I don't know if I could be that dedicated about something.

    But I'm just a little annoyed with the making excuses for Mirai; because I think the last thing Nagasu needs is people making excuses for her.

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    Nagasu reminds me a bit of Alissa Czisny at the same age. If Czisny managed to toughen herself up, the irrepressible, exasperating Mirai Nagasu can do it too. She's got all the technical and presentation skills she needs to be a champion.

    I wonder what Nagasu is planning to do in the fall. She has reportedly been admitted to U.C. Irvine, which is just as far from Cathedral City and Lake Arrowhead as Arcadia is. Is she going to defer admission for a year? Go part time? (Can she do that?) Find a new coach?

    There is a rink in Mission Viejo and a pretty good coach there named John Nicks.

    Can you imagine the if Wagner and Nagasu shared a rink, let alone a coach?

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    Honestly, Mirai hasn't been Mirai since she choked in the LP at 2010 worlds.

    I like her as a person, from what we know about her, and I just want her to be happy and reach her full potential as a person. Maybe skating isn't for her.
    Last edited by Coco; 01-29-2012 at 06:23 PM.
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  9. #29
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    Csizny and Zhang had major jump issues they had to chuck out and relearn, as well as move up from "b list" coaches.

    Mirai has the entire world at her feet and just chooses to chuck it all away, and that's why people are starting to write her off.

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  11. #31
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    Yea, I'm over Mirai. Id rather cheer for skaters that appear to want to be skating. None and I mean none of her skating was inspirational this week or this season in general. I wish her goodluck in whatever she does next, if that is working in the family shop or winning an olympic medal, but I know for one thing. I wont really care either way unless she does a complete 180.

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    isn't she going to UC Irvine next year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post

    Mirai is only 18 years old. Skaters like Alissa and Carolina Kostner seemed to find their mojo after 20. Carolina Zhang and Ashley too are proof that even if it's not happening year in, year out one shouldn't give up on the dream. Mirai may still find what it is that she needs to get her over that hump. I don't believe she's done yet, nor should she be done yet. She's in a slump but she can get past it with lots and lots of hard work, and perseverance.
    Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom(skating-wise) to put things into perspective. It allows you to take a step back and look at things in a different light. Ashley, Caroline, Carolina and Alissa have all been there and have obviously grown from their experiences. Maybe Mirai can do the same.

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    Jeez how many times does mirai need to hit rock bottom and rebound only to bottom out all over again before she learns these lessons? After she imploded at 2009 nats not even coming close to defending her title or making the world team, she made major changes, new coach etc.. And rebound to finish an impressive 4th in Vancouver. If she didn't learn anything from that, she's a lost cause.

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    I hate speculating about this stuff, and please don't hate on me for this, but I've wondered for a while now if maybe Mirai has ADD or some other logical, treatable explanation for her distractedness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Jeez how many times does mirai need to hit rock bottom and rebound only to bottom out all over again before she learns these lessons? After she imploded at 2009 nats not even coming close to defending her title or making the world team, she made major changes, new coach etc.. And rebound to finish an impressive 4th in Vancouver. If she didn't learn anything from that, she's a lost cause.
    How many times did Alissa turn in one bombed skate after another before finding some semblance of consistency(sketchy at that)? Ditto Carolina Kostner. Sorry but life isn't always simple. Sometimes growth takes time.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    I hate speculating about this stuff, and please don't hate on me for this, but I've wondered for a while now if maybe Mirai has ADD or some other logical, treatable explanation for her distractedness.
    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    After she imploded at 2009 nats not even coming close to defending her title or making the world team, she made major changes, new coach etc.. And rebound to finish an impressive 4th in Vancouver.
    Does the above sound like someone not capable of focusing?

    I think some are missing the obvious--when someone is really distracted, it's generally because they aren't terribly into whatever they happen to be doing at the moment.

    This really isn't a mystery IMO--Frank has said she doesn't train diligently, she says over and over she'd rather be at the beach or watching reality tv than skating, she says she's not prepared for competitions, she says she isn't internally motivated and that Evan is not only more motivated than her, but in far better physical shape despite not competing anymore, and her skating has been utterly devoid of effort and enthusiasm for this season and much of last season.

    When she wanted something, she worked hard for it--competing in Vancouver. But there's no indication she has wanted to continue skating after that. So she keeps phoning in programs.

    Now, she could change her mind down the road--definitely possible. But I don't think there's anything going on but the obvious here--she just isn't into skating anymore. No ADD, no deep, dark family troubles. She just ain't into it.

    It is what it is.

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    Maybe it's more about what rfisher says about the work ethic. That's not a diss because a lot of figure skaters struggle with the kind of focus and dedication it takes, but still love the actual skating. That's how the world ends up with a lot of talented, promising figure skaters whose talent takes them pretty far but not as far as talent paired with the work it takes. It's really torture to be fans of a skater like that because they keep you hoping. If only they weren't into figure skating, they'd leave the sport for something else. Most of them love figure skating but the rest of it is love/hate. They're always making fresh starts and then the same things keep happening. A lot of them go pretty far in the sport anyway. I won't mention names besides possibly Mirai, just because some fans really don't like the idea of this. They're more comfortable with another explanation, like nerves or confidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subway View Post
    Maybe it's more about what rfisher says about the work ethic. That's not a diss because a lot of figure skaters struggle with the kind of focus and dedication it takes, but still love the actual skating. That's how the world ends up with a lot of talented, promising figure skaters whose talent takes them pretty far but not as far as talent paired with the work it takes. It's really torture to be fans of a skater like that because they keep you hoping. If only they weren't into figure skating, they'd leave the sport for something else. Most of them love figure skating but the rest of it is love/hate. They're always making fresh starts and then the same things keep happening. A lot of them go pretty far in the sport anyway. I won't mention names besides possibly Mirai, just because some fans really don't like the idea of this. They're more comfortable with another explanation, like nerves or confidence.
    ^very well said.

    I actually think Mirai wants to win as much as anyone else. It's just that she fears failure more than other people do, so she's had to develop defense mechanisms to cope. All that pre-competition talk to lower expectations is probably just her way to lessen the pressure that she puts on herself to win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by change of edge View Post
    I actually think Mirai wants to win as much as anyone else. It's just that she fears failure more than other people do, so she's had to develop defense mechanisms to cope. All that pre-competition talk to lower expectations is probably just her way to lessen the pressure that she puts on herself to win.
    IA. I don't understand people saying "she doesn't want to win". Of course she wants to win. Who doesn't? I do think, however, she has low expectations of herself. I think the low expectations might be causing the other issues whatever they are.

    The one thing I will give Ashley is that she always has high expectations of herself and it drives her to try and do better. She isn't as naturally talented as some other US ladies but she always expects to be the best. Mirai doesn't and that's a shame.
    "If people are looking for guarantees, they should buy appliances at Sears and stay away from human relationships."~Prancer

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