Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 138
  1. #41

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    New England, USA
    Posts
    5,788
    vCash
    470
    Rep Power
    3403
    Quote Originally Posted by WindSpirit View Post
    Having said that, in this particular story, I'll withhold my judgement until there's more information. I'm not particularly buying the woman's account, but I'm far from blaming her. If she's lying, I hope she will get punished. Fake rape accusations are as damaging and despicable as the rape itself. To the person falsely accused and to the real rape victims.
    ^This. A teacher at the local middle school was falsely accused of having a sexual relationship with a student in 2008. He was completely cleared in 2010, but by then his life was ruined. Because he was suspended without pay, he lost his house.

    Turns out the girl was having a sexual relationship with a boy in her class and contracted a STD. Instead of getting the boy in trouble, she said the teacher did it.
    AceOn6, the golf loving skating fan

  2. #42
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    11,774
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by WindSpirit View Post
    Having said that, in this particular story, I'll withhold my judgement until there's more information. I'm not particularly buying the woman's account, but I'm far from blaming her. If she's lying, I hope she will get punished. Fake rape accusations are as damaging and despicable as the rape itself. To the person falsely accused and to the real rape victims.
    Yes. The more I read (even if only 1/2 of the things reported "out there" are accurate), the more I am convinced she is lying for self-serving/cover-up purposes. I'm now mostly withdrawing my "she may have had post-coital drinking binge blackout and incorrectly filled in the blanks" pass.

    If so, it's engraging because she has demolished a man's career and reputation. Some here and elsewhere will continue to call him a "rapist" versus "accused/wrongly accused/exhonerated" and continue to call this a "rape" versus "accused/wrongly accused rape" even is he is declared emphatically "innocent", ala the Duke lacrosse players. That's wrong.

    And - yes - it's enraging because every false accusation chips away at the credibility and public perception of true date/spousal rapes.

    I truly do feel women's POV when it comes to rape, the right to say "no" at any point of an encounter, and the law's/society's problem with making a woman prove it. But, I think this case is not the one to get behind.
    Last edited by Beefcake; 01-30-2012 at 05:10 PM.

  3. #43
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Rejecting your reality and substituting my own
    Age
    30
    Posts
    10,874
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by WindSpirit View Post
    If you initially wanted to have sex with someone, but they started to act weird and you changed your mind, do you have to go through with it? Maybe they started hurting you? Do you have to suffer through it? What if you agreed to make out and fool around without having an intercourse but they tried to make you have one anyway? Is your no less valid then? What do you think a date rape is? Can a prostitute be raped? A wife?

    All that "What was she expecting would happen?" accusatory tone is vile.

    I agree that one should take precautions to not put themselves in the harm's way, it's common sense, but nothing should undermine everyone's right to say no.

    Having said that, in this particular story, I'll withhold my judgement until there's more information. I'm not particularly buying the woman's account, but I'm far from blaming her. If she's lying, I hope she will get punished. Fake rape accusations are as damaging and despicable as the rape itself. To the person falsely accused and to the real rape victims.
    Agree on all counts.

    I've had times myself where I'm in the mood but then don't feel up to it anymore, and I feel very very grateful when I tell my bf I have to stop and he gladly obliges. He finds no pleasure when I'm not having fun. I find it sad that many women don't have that.

    And yes, fake rape accusations make me . Way to take rape seriously.

  4. #44
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Age
    24
    Posts
    9,017
    vCash
    1529
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    I agree with you. But in this case it was not home. She brought him to her office, because her boyfriend was home. I have to wonder what she planned to do in her office, with a man she had had several drinks with.
    IT STILL DOESN'T MATTER. The location DOESN'T MATTER. Yes, she probably brought him up to her office with the idea of having sex. That's a logical conclusion, because wtf else were they about to do there?

    However, if she changed her mind, and he forced her, it's still rape. If he began to hurt her, or acted weird, and she told him to stop, and he didn't, it's still rape.

    Consent can be withdrawn no matter the location. Once it is, all actions must cease, or it is rape.

    And this doesn't pertain just to this story, but to all rape situations that have ever occurred. Just because a woman wants to have sex with someone in one moment does not mean she cannot change her mind in the future, and if she changes her mind then he shouldn't force her to have sex. Period.

  5. #45
    engaged to dupa
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Heaven for climate, Hell for company.
    Posts
    18,917
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1083
    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post

    However, if she changed her mind, and he forced her, it's still rape. If he began to hurt her, or acted weird, and she told him to stop, and he didn't, it's still rape.
    Is this what happened?
    3539 and counting.

    Slightly Wounding Banana list cont: MacMadame.

  6. #46
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Age
    24
    Posts
    9,017
    vCash
    1529
    Rep Power
    0
    Oh, I have no idea. I was speaking in general principle.

  7. #47
    OmnipresentAdmeanistrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    7,938
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Aceon6 View Post
    ^This. A teacher at the local middle school was falsely accused of having a sexual relationship with a student in 2008.
    I've heard of a few stories like that. I think many young girls (and some women) don't understand how devastating a false rape accusation can be, and what dire consequences it can have for the falsely accused and their families, for the real rape victims, and for themselves (as it should). I think that should be included in general sexual education, either at home or at school, or both.

    As well as reiteration that if you decide to have sex with someone, there's another person involved, not an object. And as with any dealings with another person, we always have to take into considerations their feelings, wants and rights. That's what rape is, when someone ceases to be perceived as a person and becomes an object.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefcake View Post
    Yes. The more I read (even if only 1/2 of the things reported "out there" are accurate), the more I am convinced she is lying for self-serving/cover-up purposes. I'm now mostly withdrawing my "she may have had post-coital drinking binge blackout and incorrectly filled in the blanks" pass.
    I don't buy her story, either, and it's a damn shame if she's lying, not only because of all the consequences for the falsely accused and real rape victims, but she's a grown and educated woman, she should know better. There's no excuse.

    I truly do feel women's POV when it comes to rape, the right to say "no" at any point of an encounter [...]
    I don't think that's solely a woman's POV. Men get raped, too (and for them it's even a bigger stigma). I doubt anyone would enjoy being treated as an object.

  8. #48

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Top Secret FSU Witness Protection Location
    Age
    31
    Posts
    20,623
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    15753
    From everything I have read she has NEVER claimed she asked him to stop! People need to quit thinking about rape in general and think in terms of this case because some of these comments wouldn't seem so offensive if you quit applying them to every rape victim. She seems to just be claiming that she doesn't really remember what happened and therefore she was raped. I don't get the connection. Not remembering is not equal to passing out, as has been discussed. Not that I believe any of that excuse from her, anyway.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  9. #49
    Reality TV's Bytch
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Oblivion
    Posts
    1,815
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Could she have been drugged?

  10. #50

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Top Secret FSU Witness Protection Location
    Age
    31
    Posts
    20,623
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    15753
    It is certainly possible she was drugged but there would be no way to know now. If he has never exhibited this kind of behavior before then why would he do it this one time and why drug a woman who seems to have been more than willing on her own? I doubt a law abiding citizen decides to randomly date rape a woman and never ever does it again.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  11. #51
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    16,843
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    Oh, I have no idea. I was speaking in general principle.
    But,we are not talking about general principle here. We are discussing this one case. In general, if a woman changes her mind, the sex should stop, period! But there's something fishy here, she invited him to her office. I think most of us agree that her intent was for sex. As you said wtf else were they going to do there? As BigBo882 said she never claimed she changed her mind, she claims she doesn't remember. That makes no sense, considering she continued to text him and ask why he's not calling her. It is also rather convenient that she got amnesia after her boyfriend found the texts. I don't think she said no. I don't think she has no memory. I do think she is covering up what she did, so that her boyfriend doesn't think she cheated on him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
    Could she have been drugged?
    I doubt it. She must remember something, she continued to try and reconnect with him. That certainly doesn't indicate that it was a bad (or forgettable) experience for her.

  12. #52
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Age
    24
    Posts
    9,017
    vCash
    1529
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by cruisin View Post
    But,we are not talking about general principle here. We are discussing this one case.
    Yes, but you keep bringing this up:

    But there's something fishy here, she invited him to her office. I think most of us agree that her intent was for sex. As you said wtf else were they going to do there?
    My point is that this DOESN'T MATTER. It doesn't pertain to whether she made it up or didn't make it up. She either invited him up to her office for the purpose of having sex and they had consensual sex and she later accused him of something he didn't do, or she invited him up to her office for the purpose of having sex, changed her mind, he raped her, and she is accusing him of something he did do.

    The location and the fact that sex was the prerogative at some point in the night DON'T MATTER, in this or any other case, and repeatedly bringing it up makes it seem like women who are raped or abused after initially wanting sex were asking for it.

  13. #53
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    16,843
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    Yes, but you keep bringing this up:



    My point is that this DOESN'T MATTER. It doesn't pertain to whether she made it up or didn't make it up. She either invited him up to her office for the purpose of having sex and they had consensual sex and she later accused him of something he didn't do, or she invited him up to her office for the purpose of having sex, changed her mind, he raped her, and she is accusing him of something he did do.

    The location and the fact that sex was the prerogative at some point in the night DON'T MATTER, in this or any other case, and repeatedly bringing it up makes it seem like women who are raped or abused after initially wanting sex were asking for it.
    And you keep taking that comment out of the context of the rest of my comments.

    1. She brought him to her office, probably for sex.
    2. She never said she changed her mind, she said she doesn't remember anything.
    3. She never filed a complaint until her boyfriend found her text messages to Kelly.
    4. She texted him asking why he didn't call her.

    All of the above indicates that there is something fishy, not just the office part.

  14. #54
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Age
    24
    Posts
    9,017
    vCash
    1529
    Rep Power
    0
    And my point is that number 1 is NOT FISHY.

    I agree with you that 2-4 are fishy. They are just as fishy without number 1. Number 1 is NOT and does not indicate either way if a rape occurred or if she is lying. A woman can bring a man to her office for sex if she chooses to do so.

    My main issue is that, without 2-4, you'd only have number 1. Many people would say number 1 in and of itself is fishy, and that should never, ever be the case.

    I don't think that number 1 makes 2-4 any more or less fishy than they would be without it. I do think that it is dangerous to act like it does.

  15. #55

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Top Secret FSU Witness Protection Location
    Age
    31
    Posts
    20,623
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    15753
    You can't take one sentence out of their post and keep focusing on it. It is OUT OF CONTEXT. We get your point, a person can change their mind! Yes, we ALL AGREE. That still doesn't change the fact of what happened here and it still makes some of us think this seems fishy and apparently the police agree.

    You can say "without 2-4" all you want but guess what, 2-4 do exist and that is how it is. You can't pick which facts you like and ignore the rest.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  16. #56
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    16,843
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    And my point is that number 1 is NOT FISHY.

    I agree with you that 2-4 are fishy. They are just as fishy without number 1. Number 1 is NOT and does not indicate either way if a rape occurred or if she is lying. A woman can bring a man to her office for sex if she chooses to do so.

    My main issue is that, without 2-4, you'd only have number 1. Many people would say number 1 in and of itself is fishy, and that should never, ever be the case.

    I don't think that number 1 makes 2-4 any more or less fishy than they would be without it. I do think that it is dangerous to act like it does.
    I understand your point. And I agree with you. but, for our purposes here, point 1 has to be included. simply because, had she not brought him to her office (or somewhere) the situation probably would not have transpired.

    Now, please do not take this as condemnation or blame, under other circumstances where a woman does change her mind. But, women do have to be more cognizant of what they are doing. Not that they would deserve to be forced into sex, date rape, but do not bring a stranger to any place where you will be alone. It is dangerous. Again, I'm not saying that as a blame issue, but rather a precautionary measure. We do need to be more careful with our own safety.

  17. #57
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Rejecting your reality and substituting my own
    Age
    30
    Posts
    10,874
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    And rape where a woman changes her mind just prior to or during sex (or "doesn't remember) is IMPOSSIBLE to prove. I think you can only really prove rape if the victim was obviously drugged or if she put up a real struggle. He-said she-said is never a good rape case.

  18. #58
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    16,843
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    And rape where a woman changes her mind just prior to or during sex (or "doesn't remember) is IMPOSSIBLE to prove. I think you can only really prove rape if the victim was obviously drugged or if she put up a real struggle. He-said she-said is never a good rape case.
    I think that the texts are going to be of significant value, in this case.

  19. #59

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Top Secret FSU Witness Protection Location
    Age
    31
    Posts
    20,623
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    15753
    I will be surprised if this ever goes to court, to be honest. Wouldn't a judge look at this and say there is just zero evidence? Maybe she has something we don't know about but it sounds like the only thing she can prove is that there was sexual intercourse and that is it. I expect she will try to quietly drop charges.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  20. #60

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Vancouver Canada
    Age
    55
    Posts
    12,532
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    5563
    Quote Originally Posted by Karina1974 View Post
    No, but I will tell you one thing, I would not consider for one second doing what she did - going out for drinks and then going someplace private with someone I don't know well enough to know that said person has the self-control enough to be able to keep my welfare in mind, above and beyond whatever he may have in mind. The only time I have done the drinks-and-then-someplace-private was when I'd known the guy for well over a year, and what ended up happening was completely consensual on both sides.
    This sounds to me like the blame the victim "I'm not the type of woman to get raped" argument. All types of women get raped and most rapes are performed by someone the victim knows. Date rape is particularly common and during that year when you are getting to know a guy he might decide he doesn't want to wait for sex. You could be in a car or a secluded part of park, and it could happen. Or it could happen after you have consented to sex, on a occasion when you say no.

    In this case I'm saddened to once again see the victim's credibility immediately questions. It's possible that she was rape and didn't say so for some time because she was afraid to or in denial, or because her boyfriend supported her. Sure, it's going to be a difficult case to prove, but it could well have happened. Being drunk is generally see as equal to not giving consent, although the courts will probably need more than that.

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •