bobak's twitter is so emo https://twitter.com/#!/KatherineBobak
I think she'd be hurt to see you say her twitter is emo. She's in a bit of a tough spot right now. no one knows what happened and she's only a teenager. she should be able to be upset and not have someone in a forum comment on how emo she is. just sayin'
I'm wondering if someone could update the lists showing splits.
I went and looked up junior pair results for the past few years. The results are consistent, the year after a junior pair winner moves to senior, they finish roughly 8th/9th. It depends on the Olympic cycle and retirements in the senior ranks too.
2011-2012 junior Bobak/Beharry Senior: ??
2010-2011 junior Purich/Schultz Senior in the next year: 8th
2009-2010 junior Purdy/Mariano Senior 9th
2008-2009 junior Jones/Gaskell Senior 9th
2007-2008 junior Pisotta/Stewart Senior 5th
2006-2007 junior MacCush/Evans Senior DNQ from challenge
Two notes: The team of Steele/Shultz finished 4th in 09-10 and again 4th in junior 10-11 before finally going senior and finishing 5th 11-12.
The other team I saw that is still together --pretty well every other team has split, is Lawrence/Sweigers, who were 2nd in 2007-2008 by less than a point and finished 4th the next year in senior ahead of Pisotta/Stewart.
Which doesn't say much at all for longevity in transitioning from junior to senior in pairs. It is rare however for the junior winners to split before going to senior, every other team has at least done one year senior.
For Katie, I’m not sure there is anyone out there for her at the moment. R. Schultz is too small, and I can’t think of anyone else that even comes close to Ian. Lee will have to beat the bushes a little for her and hope that something worthy jumps out. If not, she’s at the age when a lot of kids are taking a hard look at their future to decide if they’d be better of investing the $$$ into their education. She may choose to go the school route.
With regard to improvement, younger skaters improve much more rapidly than older skates. Exponential vs incremental if you will. Our top 4 senior teams are now close to their maximum capability and unlikely to improve a great deal more, but B/B had oodles of room to grow. It’s entirely reasonable to think that they might be podium contenders domestically within a couple of years of moving up to senior, assuming of course that they could successfully master sbs triple jumps. Not that any of this matters now......
They would not have been score the same in the Canadian Sr.s as they would have been in the Canadian Jrs., probably more harsh not less.
I don't think I could disagree with that statement more.Our top 4 senior teams are now close to their maximum capability and unlikely to improve a great deal more, but B/B had oodles of room to grow.
At any rate, they aren't together so it's a moot point.
Awww.... : ( I'm really sad to hear of this split. I truly thought this team was going places.
ian had a tryout with brittney jones today at KW
Were you there? How did they look?
Question - if two former junior champions form a new partnership are they required to skate senior?
Disclaimer: I know nothing about this partnership and nothing about either skater; I've heard nothing, I'm not implying anything, I'm not talking about this team, this should not be taken as a statement about any skater or coach involved in the situation that's been under discussion.
It is absolutely true that it is generally impossible to know, from the outside, whether it's "unwise" for a team to split. To reiterate that I am not talking about this situation and I am not trying to get anyone to read between the lines of what I'm saying - in every situation in the past where I've known "the story" when a seemingly promising team breaks up with no obvious explanation or warning, there's always been an explanation and it's typically either not a pretty reason or it's about money (such as a boy demanding that a girl pay 100%). I've known teams that split because the boy physically abused the girl; because the boy harassed his partner (sexually or otherwise); because the coach harassed one of the skaters; because the coach was abusing one of the skaters and the partner not being abused chose to leave the rink to escape the situation when the abused partner refused to leave the abuser. Sometimes, it's about things outside the rink: probably the worst situation that I can recall involved intra-family violence. I really am not trying to imply that anything as awful as harassment or abuse was happening within this team or this rink - I meant it when I said "don't try to read between the lines." My point is that there are a lot of different reasons why teams split and it's impossible to know from the outside - sometimes, it's even impossible to know from the inside: you'd be surprised how many skaters within a rink can be blissfully unaware of what's happening right under their noses.
Personally, I strongly believe that our mission within the skating community is to raise strong, successful adults: from that perspective, many of the splits that raise eyebrows on the internet are actually in the skaters' best interest, no doubt. So much of what skaters do is bad for their general long-term well-being; when I talk to skaters who are 20+ years out from their career, almost every elite female - including the Olympians - say that it wasn't worth what they thought it was worth at the time. I know very few former pair "girls" who have allowed their children to skate competitively: it's like we're all grateful for having been skaters and the experiences that shaped us into who we are, yet almost no one would allow their daughter to follow in their footsteps. (As always, there are exceptions, of course.)
As a related but separate question, it's generally impossible to know, without the advantage of hindsight, whether it's "unwise" for a team to split in terms of future [skating] career success. I've used the example of Meno/Sand before, but I think it's a great example: there was much hang-wringing in the spring of '92, from just about every corner (including Mr. Nicks, IIRC), that it was a serious mistake to split up the preexisting teams - and yet they greatly exceeded the expectations that anyone had for them, as well as the potential of the preexisting teams.
On a more mundane note, it's quite common for teams who have decided to split to finish out previous commitments. I've seen plenty of teams split, conduct tryouts, and even start training with new partners while skating in shows with the previous partner. The money is usually needed by the skaters, but maybe more than that, the coaches often emphasize to their skaters that they have a responsibility to uphold their commitments and that backing out would damage the reputation of the skaters and of the coach.
And lastly, I cannot emphasize enough that I am not talking about Bobek, Beharry, their coaches, or anyone involved in their specific situation. I know nothing about their situation and I couldn't stand it if someone thought negatively of any of those individuals because of my post, which has nothing to do with them.
I think a better choice for Beharry would be Seguin over Jones. Curious to hear if Seguin has already found a partner.
As for Bobak - she cooked her goose on this one, if this really was her decision. Not many (if any) decent junior age eligible (or even older) partner options for her.
I agree that I'd rather see Seguin with Beharry than Jones. Jones's posture is just and she struggles with any jump more difficult than a double axel.
I also think that Bobak is going to have a hard time finding a good partner. I noticed at Challenge that there were a lot of talented junior-aged ladies skating in senior pairs, all with partners that were various combinations of too short, not very strong, too old for juniors, and/or just plain not strong skaters overall. The only male that I thought had a lot of potential was Michael Marinaro, but he and Purdy don't show any signs of splitting at this point. Obviously there are other reasons than skating talent to stick with or split with a partner, so I'm not suggesting that Bobak should have stayed with Beharry if there were real problems, but it's pretty clear that pickings are slim for male partners unless there's someone hanging around in novice, a la Craig Buntin (who went from 11th in novice in 99 to 1st in junior in 2000).
I'm not sure Seguin and Beharry would be a good match. She is good technically, but I think what made B/B so special was their long lines, and I don't think he and Seguin would have that same look...
Jones/Beharry would probably do very well this season given her technical abilities - she almost never missed that 3toe or her throws... She is not a step down from Bobak IMO
For Katie, I’m wondering if it might be worthwhile to look at some of the JGP eligible American boys? No way will Skate Canada release her, but maybe the USFSA would be more lenient with a boy who hasn’t yet had much international success?