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  1. #141

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    bobak's twitter is so emo https://twitter.com/#!/KatherineBobak

  2. #142

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    I think she'd be hurt to see you say her twitter is emo. She's in a bit of a tough spot right now. no one knows what happened and she's only a teenager. she should be able to be upset and not have someone in a forum comment on how emo she is. just sayin'

  3. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    Got it. I read NorthernDancer's comments as "They had such a good year together and considerable potential. If they realized said considerable potential, in two years, they could be National bronze medalists."

    Which, to me, was eminently reasonable.
    But that is assuming they are the only team that would be getting better and all other teams would either be staying the same or regressing and chances are that wouldn't be happening, the other teams are going to be getting better as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDancers View Post
    Not understanding that math. B/B would have placed 5th this year at Senior with the Junior marks. Add a full season of training, likely a JGF podium finish again, and it would not be ridiculous they finish in 4th. In 2 years, 3rd is not ridiculous.
    When a good jr pair team competes against average jr teams the top teams tend to be overinflated but once they move up and compete against senior teams, the judges won't be as generous with the scores. They probably would have been around 5th or 6th at seniors if they competed with the top.

    Quote Originally Posted by fan View Post
    bobak's twitter is so emo https://twitter.com/#!/KatherineBobak
    Her tweets are locked.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniskates93 View Post
    I think she'd be hurt to see you say her twitter is emo. She's in a bit of a tough spot right now. no one knows what happened and she's only a teenager. she should be able to be upset and not have someone in a forum comment on how emo she is. just sayin'
    Correct. Personal comments like that are off-side. Let's keep it focused on the skating....the public domain.

  5. #145
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    I'm wondering if someone could update the lists showing splits.

    I went and looked up junior pair results for the past few years. The results are consistent, the year after a junior pair winner moves to senior, they finish roughly 8th/9th. It depends on the Olympic cycle and retirements in the senior ranks too.

    2011-2012 junior Bobak/Beharry Senior: ??
    2010-2011 junior Purich/Schultz Senior in the next year: 8th
    2009-2010 junior Purdy/Mariano Senior 9th
    2008-2009 junior Jones/Gaskell Senior 9th
    2007-2008 junior Pisotta/Stewart Senior 5th
    2006-2007 junior MacCush/Evans Senior DNQ from challenge

    Two notes: The team of Steele/Shultz finished 4th in 09-10 and again 4th in junior 10-11 before finally going senior and finishing 5th 11-12.

    The other team I saw that is still together --pretty well every other team has split, is Lawrence/Sweigers, who were 2nd in 2007-2008 by less than a point and finished 4th the next year in senior ahead of Pisotta/Stewart.

    Which doesn't say much at all for longevity in transitioning from junior to senior in pairs. It is rare however for the junior winners to split before going to senior, every other team has at least done one year senior.

  6. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave of the North View Post
    Whatever the reason for the split (assuming its confirmed, and assuming they both continue in pairs), who are the potential partners for them?

    Beharry - Seguin? Jones? Purich?

    Bobak - ?? Schulz?
    Hmm, for Ian, I don’t think Jones would be considered. She previously skated at KW, then moved to Barrie, so it’s doubtful that she would be willing to go back to KW. And I’m guessing it would be doubly doubtful that Ian would go to Barrie……Seguin or Purich are the most likely candidates. Seguin would probably be the better physical match, but there is the language barrier to consider. Purich might be a bit small for him, and I’m not sure if they’d be a great fit style-wise, but she already has a throw 3lutz and whole lotta star power. In any event, I imagine an announcement will be forthcoming shortly.

    For Katie, I’m not sure there is anyone out there for her at the moment. R. Schultz is too small, and I can’t think of anyone else that even comes close to Ian. Lee will have to beat the bushes a little for her and hope that something worthy jumps out. If not, she’s at the age when a lot of kids are taking a hard look at their future to decide if they’d be better of investing the $$$ into their education. She may choose to go the school route.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniskates93 View Post
    I think she'd be hurt to see you say her twitter is emo. She's in a bit of a tough spot right now. no one knows what happened and she's only a teenager. she should be able to be upset and not have someone in a forum comment on how emo she is. just sayin'
    I imagine she is in a tough spot right now. It’s hard to split with not only a partner, but with long-time coaches as well. She’s entitled to be a bit emo right now. And also entitled to some privacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    But that is assuming they are the only team that would be getting better and all other teams would either be staying the same or regressing and chances are that wouldn't be happening, the other teams are going to be getting better as well.

    When a good jr pair team competes against average jr teams the top teams tend to be overinflated but once they move up and compete against senior teams, the judges won't be as generous with the scores. They probably would have been around 5th or 6th at seniors if they competed with the top.
    Firstly, junior pair programs and senior pair programs are quite different animals. In the short program, juniors are not allowed to do a 3twist and must do one of two prescribed sbs double jumps. The free program is 30 seconds shorter, and they are allowed to do only two lifts as opposed to 3 in senior. Most of senior teams were doing two Group 5 lifts. These are the highest scoring lifts, and when performed after the halfway mark of the program can earn some very big points. The recommended PCS range at the junior level is also lower than at the senior range. B/B received 8.32 points for their Group 5 lift in their Free at Canadians, so if you were to add another 8 points for a 2nd Group 5 lift and a couple of points for a 3twist in the SP, their overall score at would have been somewhere around 160, putting them solidly into 5th place, and not far behind MT/M at 164.42. That’s without any triple jumps. If you just look at the free program, adding 8 points to their score would have given them 106.79. D/W and L/S only earned 110.95 and 110.29 respectively, and MT/M earned 104.16. And no, I don’t think the judges at Canadians were particularly kind to them at all.

    With regard to improvement, younger skaters improve much more rapidly than older skates. Exponential vs incremental if you will. Our top 4 senior teams are now close to their maximum capability and unlikely to improve a great deal more, but B/B had oodles of room to grow. It’s entirely reasonable to think that they might be podium contenders domestically within a couple of years of moving up to senior, assuming of course that they could successfully master sbs triple jumps. Not that any of this matters now......
    images on ice - Figure Skating Photography

  7. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by shutterbug View Post
    Firstly, junior pair programs and senior pair programs are quite different animals.......
    That was a longer version of what I said.

    They would not have been score the same in the Canadian Sr.s as they would have been in the Canadian Jrs., probably more harsh not less.

    Our top 4 senior teams are now close to their maximum capability and unlikely to improve a great deal more, but B/B had oodles of room to grow.
    I don't think I could disagree with that statement more.

    At any rate, they aren't together so it's a moot point.

  8. #148
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    Awww.... : ( I'm really sad to hear of this split. I truly thought this team was going places.

  9. #149
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    ian had a tryout with brittney jones today at KW

  10. #150
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    Were you there? How did they look?

  11. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8tingfan30 View Post
    ian had a tryout with brittney jones today at KW
    Wee bit surprised to hear Brittany might be considering a move back to KW, but a girl’s gotta do what a girl’s gotta do when there are so few partners available………kiss any hopes for fixing her posture goodbye though. Seconding the request for a report!

    Question - if two former junior champions form a new partnership are they required to skate senior?
    images on ice - Figure Skating Photography

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDancers View Post
    Let me clarify....it's an unwise decision if one is serious about achieving a dream of a successful pairs skating career. The podiums were in sight, and she walked away from it. The odds of finding the kind of partnership she had are very long, and she is not likely to have all this ever again. If that is not what she wanted, then fine. But that doesn't compute for me after all kinds of effort and money she must have put into the sport so far.

    Disclaimer: I know nothing about this partnership and nothing about either skater; I've heard nothing, I'm not implying anything, I'm not talking about this team, this should not be taken as a statement about any skater or coach involved in the situation that's been under discussion.

    It is absolutely true that it is generally impossible to know, from the outside, whether it's "unwise" for a team to split. To reiterate that I am not talking about this situation and I am not trying to get anyone to read between the lines of what I'm saying - in every situation in the past where I've known "the story" when a seemingly promising team breaks up with no obvious explanation or warning, there's always been an explanation and it's typically either not a pretty reason or it's about money (such as a boy demanding that a girl pay 100%). I've known teams that split because the boy physically abused the girl; because the boy harassed his partner (sexually or otherwise); because the coach harassed one of the skaters; because the coach was abusing one of the skaters and the partner not being abused chose to leave the rink to escape the situation when the abused partner refused to leave the abuser. Sometimes, it's about things outside the rink: probably the worst situation that I can recall involved intra-family violence. I really am not trying to imply that anything as awful as harassment or abuse was happening within this team or this rink - I meant it when I said "don't try to read between the lines." My point is that there are a lot of different reasons why teams split and it's impossible to know from the outside - sometimes, it's even impossible to know from the inside: you'd be surprised how many skaters within a rink can be blissfully unaware of what's happening right under their noses.

    Personally, I strongly believe that our mission within the skating community is to raise strong, successful adults: from that perspective, many of the splits that raise eyebrows on the internet are actually in the skaters' best interest, no doubt. So much of what skaters do is bad for their general long-term well-being; when I talk to skaters who are 20+ years out from their career, almost every elite female - including the Olympians - say that it wasn't worth what they thought it was worth at the time. I know very few former pair "girls" who have allowed their children to skate competitively: it's like we're all grateful for having been skaters and the experiences that shaped us into who we are, yet almost no one would allow their daughter to follow in their footsteps. (As always, there are exceptions, of course.)

    As a related but separate question, it's generally impossible to know, without the advantage of hindsight, whether it's "unwise" for a team to split in terms of future [skating] career success. I've used the example of Meno/Sand before, but I think it's a great example: there was much hang-wringing in the spring of '92, from just about every corner (including Mr. Nicks, IIRC), that it was a serious mistake to split up the preexisting teams - and yet they greatly exceeded the expectations that anyone had for them, as well as the potential of the preexisting teams.

    On a more mundane note, it's quite common for teams who have decided to split to finish out previous commitments. I've seen plenty of teams split, conduct tryouts, and even start training with new partners while skating in shows with the previous partner. The money is usually needed by the skaters, but maybe more than that, the coaches often emphasize to their skaters that they have a responsibility to uphold their commitments and that backing out would damage the reputation of the skaters and of the coach.

    And lastly, I cannot emphasize enough that I am not talking about Bobek, Beharry, their coaches, or anyone involved in their specific situation. I know nothing about their situation and I couldn't stand it if someone thought negatively of any of those individuals because of my post, which has nothing to do with them.

  13. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by shutterbug View Post
    Wee bit surprised to hear Brittany might be considering a move back to KW, but a girl’s gotta do what a girl’s gotta do when there are so few partners available……… ... Seconding the request for a report!
    A report would be great Did I miss it, or any word on Seguin & a partner decision?

  14. #154
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    I think a better choice for Beharry would be Seguin over Jones. Curious to hear if Seguin has already found a partner.

    As for Bobak - she cooked her goose on this one, if this really was her decision. Not many (if any) decent junior age eligible (or even older) partner options for her.

  15. #155

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    I agree that I'd rather see Seguin with Beharry than Jones. Jones's posture is just and she struggles with any jump more difficult than a double axel.

    I also think that Bobak is going to have a hard time finding a good partner. I noticed at Challenge that there were a lot of talented junior-aged ladies skating in senior pairs, all with partners that were various combinations of too short, not very strong, too old for juniors, and/or just plain not strong skaters overall. The only male that I thought had a lot of potential was Michael Marinaro, but he and Purdy don't show any signs of splitting at this point. Obviously there are other reasons than skating talent to stick with or split with a partner, so I'm not suggesting that Bobak should have stayed with Beharry if there were real problems, but it's pretty clear that pickings are slim for male partners unless there's someone hanging around in novice, a la Craig Buntin (who went from 11th in novice in 99 to 1st in junior in 2000).

  16. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I also think that Bobak is going to have a hard time finding a good partner. I noticed at Challenge that there were a lot of talented junior-aged ladies skating in senior pairs, all with partners that were various combinations of too short, not very strong, too old for juniors, and/or just plain not strong skaters overall. The only male that I thought had a lot of potential was Michael Marinaro, but he and Purdy don't show any signs of splitting at this point. Obviously there are other reasons than skating talent to stick with or split with a partner, so I'm not suggesting that Bobak should have stayed with Beharry if there were real problems, but it's pretty clear that pickings are slim for male partners unless there's someone hanging around in novice, a la Craig Buntin (who went from 11th in novice in 99 to 1st in junior in 2000).
    She could change countries can't she, if she's that desperate. I mean I have no idea what went on behind closed doors but if he was mean to her or something like that. She must of had her reasons, or he had his, it's their choice.

  17. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    pickings are slim for male partners unless there's someone hanging around in novice, a la Craig Buntin (who went from 11th in novice in 99 to 1st in junior in 2000).
    Hmmm....of the Novice teams that are known to have split, the only two guys that haven't been mentioned as having new partners are Shaquille Davis and Cole Vandervelden. Both guys are decent skaters with Shaquille having placed 14th at Nationals in Senior and Cole 12th in Junior. What's happened with these two? Neither ever appeared on icepartner search that I'm aware of...not that guys have to in order to find a new partner but they seem to have disappeared from the chatter....

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by laceup View Post
    Curious to hear if Seguin has already found a partner.
    Hope she tries out with Beharry. Could be a good match.

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    I'm not sure Seguin and Beharry would be a good match. She is good technically, but I think what made B/B so special was their long lines, and I don't think he and Seguin would have that same look...

    Jones/Beharry would probably do very well this season given her technical abilities - she almost never missed that 3toe or her throws... She is not a step down from Bobak IMO

  20. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cant Skate View Post
    Hmmm....of the Novice teams that are known to have split, the only two guys that haven't been mentioned as having new partners are Shaquille Davis and Cole Vandervelden. Both guys are decent skaters with Shaquille having placed 14th at Nationals in Senior and Cole 12th in Junior. What's happened with these two? Neither ever appeared on icepartner search that I'm aware of...not that guys have to in order to find a new partner but they seem to have disappeared from the chatter....
    Pretty sure Davis is concentrationing on singles. His partner from last season, Jordyn Harper, is now skating with Wesley Killing.

    Quote Originally Posted by blademate View Post
    Jones/Beharry would probably do very well this season given her technical abilities - she almost never missed that 3toe or her throws... She is not a step down from Bobak IMO
    No, skills wise she isn’t a step down from Katie. Her 3toe has really solidified this season, and she’s also landing the 3sal. Her 2A was not going well at Canadians – had an ugly fall on it in her singles SP and dislocated her shoulder. Didn’t land one again in practice that I saw, and I was every time she went up for an attempt. Almost fell out of my seat when she nailed such a good one in the pairs SP. She’s always been a rockstar on the throws and the 3twist. Although I suspect she’s going to grow into a beautiful young woman in the next couple of years, unfortunately at this point the poor child’s appearance is still really awkward, all arms and legs and forward posture. She does have one major advantage over Purich & Seguin though – she’s a local girl, and he wouldn’t have to move to skate with her.

    For Katie, I’m wondering if it might be worthwhile to look at some of the JGP eligible American boys? No way will Skate Canada release her, but maybe the USFSA would be more lenient with a boy who hasn’t yet had much international success?
    images on ice - Figure Skating Photography

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