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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    Sorry, then -- but what DID you mean by, "Cynthia has shown a great degree of improvement this year, and I think Skate Canada is putting a lot of trust in Brian's and Tracy's abilities as coaches."
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    That could mean that with two more months of training with them, Phaneuf might improve significantly and have a shot at top 10.
    Yes.

    Cynthia has shown a great deal of improvement since she started working with them. When you consider Cynthia's improvement, experience, quality of skating, and current support system, Team Phaneuf is a better gamble than Team Lacoste.

    That said, if Cynthia tanks at 4CC and Lacoste puts up strong performances, SC should absolutely send Amelie to Worlds. If both skaters perform to a similar standard at 4CC, I think they'll go with Cynthia.

  2. #42
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    I think this would be a great idea. It would give both girls another chance to show what they are made of, considering neither had a great Nationals.

    Cynthia skated well enough to win at Canadians and maybe they think more time under Brian's influence could work wonders...considering how much better she did at Nationals compared to the Grand Prix season.

    And Amelie winning Nationals was the biggest surprise of the entire event. I would have ranked her 3rd or lower after that performance, so to see her win was beyond crazy to me.

    I say let them try again, closer to World's and make sure the best skater goes. I am sure both wouldn't mind a do over.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    re: Buttle vs. Ferreira in 2004,

    It was an interesting decision considering that Jeff had qualified for the GPF (even though he had to withdraw). Skate Canada must have not been confident that a Sandhu/Buttle combination would have garnered 3 Worlds spots for 2005, therefore didn't bother with a skate-off scenario at 4CC.

    re: Bellemare vs. Watt in 2001,

    Skate Canada must have thought that a Robinson + Bellemare combination was the best bet to preserve 2 spots for 2002 Olympics (which didn't happen), therefore opted for the 4CC scenario in that case.
    For 2001 and 2004, I was at Nats. in 2001, there was questions regarding Nicole and Annie as Nicole won silver, and Annie bronze, but many of Nicole's jumps were downgraded at 4CC (they weren't at nats) so they sent Annie to Worlds, where she tanked.

    In 2004, Jeff skated poorly, but Ben's performance was out of this world. You couldn't deny him the spot; he landed everything! it was a skate to remember. I remember feeling bad that Jeff did not go to Worlds.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    Hm, good point.

    At this point I don't have faith in either Cynthia or Amelie to do well at Worlds.

    Skate Canada should be begging and pleading Joannie Rochette to come back to competition next year.
    I disagree. They just have to focus more intensively on developing the women's program. Didn't the Canadian ladies junior champ have only a 2 axel at some point? That's embarrassing. Joanne's great but getting her back would only be a bandaid.

    Give it to Amelia. She earned it, and try and focus on the problems with the women. They never seem to have trouble producing new generations of internationally competitive men.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subway View Post
    I disagree. They just have to focus more intensively on developing the women's program. Didn't the Canadian ladies junior champ have only a 2 axel at some point? That's embarrassing. Joanne's great but getting her back would only be a bandaid.

    Give it to Amelia. She earned it, and try and focus on the problems with the women. They never seem to have trouble producing new generations of internationally competitive men.
    Maybe the reason we don't have as much trouble producing good/great men competitors is because they haven't seemed to have as much trouble leaving coaches/Canada to get the training and tools they needed? Seems to me, that too many of our "ladies" stay in their comfort zone and hence don't address their problem areas (and this can be applied to dance and couples as well). If you aren't getting the results you want/need but you won't change anything you are doing, then I have little sympathy for you. In that vein of thought, good on Cynthia to take a huge step away from her comfort zone in search of getting the results she wants.

    And I still think 4CC is a good idea because in my mind, I want us to send the best/strongest competitor possible in ladies and thus far, I'm left wanting.
    Crazy about sports!

  6. #46
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    Well, maybe if Skate Canada actually *sent* our Ladies out on the International/GP circuit to compete and get that experience to build on, then maybe we'd see our Ladies program have that long waited for improvement. We have five members that make up the Ladies Team on the Senior National Team, but only one or two get sent out?

    That's pathetic!!

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltnskater View Post
    In regards to how the season played out, I think the smarter thing to do was to have said BEFORE the national championships, we are having a skate-off at 4CC no matter what. It does create certain other problems, of course, but in terms of being fair and who is the best lady to send, that would have been the right option. (And at that time, they had no idea Kaetlyn would win the short which made Slipchuk open his big mouth )
    They couldn't know before Canadians how the ladies would skate. In the CBC interview Slipchuck said there would be a skate-off to determine who got the world spot and pointed out there was only one spot.

    Cynthia is still Skate Canada's golden girl. She has so much better basics and artistry than Lacoste and at her best, can make top five. Lacoste at her best might make top ten.

    Neither of them skated well at Nationals and neither's performances would have made top ten at worlds. Lacoste's win wasn't decisive, it came down to who made less mistakes.

    So a skate-off is fair. I agree with those who said that Skate Canada is still hoping to see improvement in Cynthia due to the coaching change. If Lacoste wants the spot, she'll have to earn it.

    It is not written in stone that Nationals ranking determines the world team. Putting pressure on the two to do a better job is good preparation for worlds IMO.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    It is not written in stone that Nationals ranking determines the world team. Putting pressure on the two to do a better job is good preparation for worlds IMO.
    Not in stone, but isn't it written in black and white that the nat champ isn't guaranteed a spot at worlds?

    The state of canadian ladies is a great kunundrum. If the hockey obsessed country can actually find guys willing to skate pairs dance and men's, why is the ladies singles talent pool so shallow?

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Not in stone, but isn't it written in black and white that the nat champ isn't guaranteed a spot at worlds?
    That's never been a rule in Canada. I think that people are confusing it with the US rule.

    It very rarely happens that the national champ doesn't go to Worlds, because there is usually more than one spot and so if any deviations happen from the national standings, it's for spots #2 or 3. But it's always been on the table that Skate Canada does not need to follow the national results. They haven't deviated very often, with the only two recent examples being Bellemare/Watt in 2001 and Ferreira/Sandhu in 2000. But it's always a possibility. (I actually wish they would deviate a bit more...)

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    (I actually wish they would deviate a bit more...)
    Me too!

    There have been a few times when skaters have done incredibly well on the GP circuit and then had an off night at Nationals.

    I know there are some who believe that is just the way it works and that Canadians should be the be all and end all. I'm just not one of them.

    Not only are there weird circumstances sometimes (the aforementioned food poisoning of Jeff Buttle - who lost a ton of weight and was clearly not well / as well trained as necessary as a result in time for Nationals)

    Then there is sometimes a discrepancy between National and international judging. I think the wrong guy (Vaughn Chipeur) went to the Olympics and IMO it was because of overmarking of him at Nationals that year compared to Shawn Sawyer and Kevin Reynolds.

    I know there are people who really believe that he deserved to go - again I'm just not one of them.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Accordion View Post
    Me too!
    Then there is sometimes a discrepancy between National and international judging. I think the wrong guy (Vaughn Chipeur) went to the Olympics and IMO it was because of overmarking of him at Nationals that year compared to Shawn Sawyer and Kevin Reynolds.
    ITA - and don't remember when Vaughn placed, just that he didn't skate very well.

  12. #52
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    Once someone earns a place on an Olympic team, it shouldn't matter where they place, unless they are hiding an illness or injury. There aren't even spots for future competitions based on the results.

    The questions raised are whether Chipeur was over-scored at Can Nats to earn that place based on national results, and whether Skate Canada should have sent him over other skaters with better international results.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  13. #53
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    This may just be speculation, but in a sport that is dwindling in televison ratings, attendance numbers, etc etc and where funding for amateur sports is always an issue.... Skate Canada is probably under alot of pressure, as are other National Sports Organizations... to send their best athletes to prove that they can produce great international results to ensure the government allows appropriate funding for training. sponsorships, etc etc. Japan does this all the time with their athletes... as does Russia. This is nothing new. Nancy Kerrigan was allowed to go to the 1994 Olympics because she had showed internationally that year (besides the 1993 Worlds obviously) that she was the USA's best shot at a medal in 1994.

    And I totally agree that Vaughan Chipeur was sent to the 2010 Olympics. It sucks he ended up being injured all year, but I am glad they did not send Kevin or Shawn Sawyer. Shawn was unable to land a clean triple axel until last year. Kevin was still a one-trick pony with his quads..... although he did place well after the short in 2010 Worlds... so I would have chosen him over Shawn that year.

  14. #54
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    Kevin went to worlds in 2010 and finished 11th, didn't he, IIRC? Much better than Vaughn Chipeur's 23rd? place at the Olympics. And Shawn finished 10th at 4CC and had already finished 12th at the 2006 Olympics without a clean 3A there either, IIRC. I thought Shawn should have been sent, and I'm still reeling about that, but then again I'm a Shawn uber fan.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Once someone earns a place on an Olympic team, it shouldn't matter where they place, unless they are hiding an illness or injury. There aren't even spots for future competitions based on the results.
    I believe criticisms about Chipeur's assignment to the Olympic team reflected his poor placement and reinforced views that he was over scored at Nationals.

    ETA as blue idealist just posted (at the same time I did)
    Last edited by Japanfan; 01-29-2012 at 08:32 AM.

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