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  1. #61
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    The South Korean couple who got rescued after 30 hours slept through everything and by the time they awoke the ship was already tilted

    http://news.yahoo.com/korea-couple-t...025015858.html

    what a honeymoon

    you know we spent last summer in Tuscany and Cinque Terra - and first Cinque Terra had the terrible weather tragedy and now this.. I really hope they can remove the oil and it doesn't become a natural disaster, that area is so beautiful..
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  2. #62

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    If it is like any of the ships I've been on, there are a number of master mariner's license-holding officers on board: the Captain, the Staff Captain, First Officer, and often one or two others (perhaps the safety officer or Navigator) -- we went to a presentation by the officer who was a Navigator on a Princess ship of similar capacity and there seemed to be about six different officers who all held a full license. It will be interesting to see what it turns out each of the others was doing during the evacuation.

    Very sad. I can't remember even hearing of a time when a captain abandoned passengers on a passenger ship like this. Very cowardly, but I'm not sure how you ever know how someone will behave under pressure. (Though in the airline world there's been a lot of work on cockpit management, with the first officer required to take action if the captain fails to behave properly. I wonder if the same management principles hold for seagoing ships, or if the notion is that the captain is the boss and no matter what he says, he's to be obeyed?)

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    This captain is like the anti-Sully. One seems to have caused the disaster through poor decisions; the other had to survive a disaster caused by outside forces by making excellent decisions. One abandoned the sinking ship before many of the passengers; Sully was the last person off the plane after he personally walked up and down the aisle twice and made sure no one was left on board.

  4. #64
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    on the cruise ship message board I'm on (I leave for my cruise next month ) they reported that two of the bodies today were of a father and his 5 year old daughter
    Thanks to PI .. I discovered I'm actually a Nontheist

    "Love is better than Anger, Hope is better than fear" Jack Layton 1950-2011

  5. #65

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    Just saw this:
    "Rome daily newspaper La Repubblica yesterday carried details of the key testimony of 10 officers on the Concordia last Friday night.

    They argue that had the captain sounded the abandon-ship immediately, rather than waiting 75 minutes, the evacuation would have been much less dangerous. The officers say that for the first 40 minutes after the ship hit the rocks off the island of Giglio, it remained reasonably upright. By the time the order to abandon ship had been sounded, the ship had begun to list badly, making it difficult to launch the lifeboats as gravity banged them into the side of the vessel. Furthermore, the fact the Concordia ended up on its side meant almost half the lifeboats, those on the side in the water, could not be used.

    In their testimony, the officers complain that, rather than taking decisive control of the situation, Capt Schettino spent the hour after the collision on his mobile phone, in animated conversation not only with the coast guard authorities but also with senior figures at the Costa company.

    The investigation has reportedly concluded that the captain was so busy on his phone he constantly ignored information and pleas for instruction from his officers. When one officer reported from below that the ship’s engines and generators were out of action, completely flooded, he took no decision. Eventually, the officers took their orders from the second-in-command, Roberto Bosio, who immediately began to evacuate the ship, at 10.45pm, some 13 minutes before Capt Schettino sounded the abandon-ship."

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...310400512.html

    The anti-Sully indeed.

  6. #66
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    At least this happened near land, not in the open ocean. (I know that caused the accident, but still ... many were saved.)

    While the Titanic didn't have enough lifeboats, this ship didn't have enough usable ones, given they were on the wrong side, got stuck and stalled. I guess that's part of the comparisons, but I thought the original comparisons to the Titanic were based more on the timing and responses of the crew. People were dining and being entertained when something happened, but their fears were dismissed initially by the clueless crew, then people didn't know what to do.

    The Anti-Sully - has a catchy ring to it. I'm surprised we haven't heard of more local boats being pressed into service for the rescue since it was an island. When the plane went down in the Hudson, ferries and boats rushed to the scene. Ditto on 9/11.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Yes, but on Titanic, there were 2200 passengers and lifeboats for two-thirds (and in fairness to White Star/IMM, they had about 30% MORE lifeboat capacity than the Board of Trade required for her tonnage), and 1500 people died, while here it's about a dozen at last count. Plus on Titanic, the movie vilifying them aside, the worst fatalities by percentage were the crew. There were streets in Southampton where every single house lost someone. Half the deck officers including the Captain died. In this case it sounds like the crew for the most part said screw the passengers and left them to fend for themselves. I'm not saying a captain should go down with his ship, but he shouldn't be stepping on the passengers on his way to the lifeboat...
    I think it's actually expected that the captain at least make sure that his passengers have safely left before leaving himself. (Of course not humanly possible for the passengers trapped in their rooms. ) If that means he's one of the casualties, of course that's a tragedy, but he would have died nobly.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4rkidz View Post
    The South Korean couple who got rescued after 30 hours slept through everything and by the time they awoke the ship was already tilted

    http://news.yahoo.com/korea-couple-t...025015858.html

    what a honeymoon
    Yikes! At least they're alive and phew, definitely a story to tell their grandkids!

    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    Very sad. I can't remember even hearing of a time when a captain abandoned passengers on a passenger ship like this. Very cowardly, but I'm not sure how you ever know how someone will behave under pressure. (Though in the airline world there's been a lot of work on cockpit management, with the first officer required to take action if the captain fails to behave properly. I wonder if the same management principles hold for seagoing ships, or if the notion is that the captain is the boss and no matter what he says, he's to be obeyed?)
    That's why they should be extensively trained. When disaster strikes, most people go blank and have no idea what to do, but the thinking is, if you HAVE been trained into what to do in such situations, you'll have a much clearer head because you know what you have to do next.

    People in disasters usually behave much more calmly than in the videos we've seen of the sinking, if they're led by a properly trained team. It's just that no one seemed to be in charge. The passengers were left to fend for themselves and panic ensued.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbk View Post
    Just saw this:
    "Rome daily newspaper La Repubblica yesterday carried details of the key testimony of 10 officers on the Concordia last Friday night.

    They argue that had the captain sounded the abandon-ship immediately, rather than waiting 75 minutes, the evacuation would have been much less dangerous. The officers say that for the first 40 minutes after the ship hit the rocks off the island of Giglio, it remained reasonably upright. By the time the order to abandon ship had been sounded, the ship had begun to list badly, making it difficult to launch the lifeboats as gravity banged them into the side of the vessel. Furthermore, the fact the Concordia ended up on its side meant almost half the lifeboats, those on the side in the water, could not be used.

    In their testimony, the officers complain that, rather than taking decisive control of the situation, Capt Schettino spent the hour after the collision on his mobile phone, in animated conversation not only with the coast guard authorities but also with senior figures at the Costa company.

    The investigation has reportedly concluded that the captain was so busy on his phone he constantly ignored information and pleas for instruction from his officers. When one officer reported from below that the ship’s engines and generators were out of action, completely flooded, he took no decision. Eventually, the officers took their orders from the second-in-command, Roberto Bosio, who immediately began to evacuate the ship, at 10.45pm, some 13 minutes before Capt Schettino sounded the abandon-ship."

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...310400512.html

    The anti-Sully indeed.
    The nerve of that guy...calling the execs before ya know, doing his ACTUAL JOB.

    There's cell phone footage of the first announcement after the hit - the power had gone out. They assured the passengers that they were just having a problem with the generator and that everything was fine. ORLY?

    I dunno, I'd hope that a vessel I was in would be truthful about what was happening instead of trying to spin a major collision...

  9. #69
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    according to my cruise ship message board - if the Captain had followed protocol after hitting the rocks - and not tried to turn it toward the harbour - the outcome may have been much better.. apparently the ships are built to seal off when flooded so they stay stable and not list.. but by the captain doing his major move of turning the ship so the passengers would be closer to land may have actually made things much worse

    Those that have died so far is due to being trapped from the ship listing - if he had apparently followed protocol all the life boats would have been accessible and there would have been time for a proper rescue - will be interesting to see what the black box has to say.
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    Earlier today, I saw a photo of the black box being handed over to authorities. The captain is under house arrest in Naples.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    The nerve of that guy...calling the execs before ya know, doing his ACTUAL JOB.

    There's cell phone footage of the first announcement after the hit - the power had gone out. They assured the passengers that they were just having a problem with the generator and that everything was fine. ORLY?

    I dunno, I'd hope that a vessel I was in would be truthful about what was happening instead of trying to spin a major collision...
    apparently also called his mama before the authorities
    Thanks to PI .. I discovered I'm actually a Nontheist

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    Msnbc did an article with names of other captains who have left their ship. There is a youtube video of the sinking oceanus... guitrist coordinated the rescue after the officers left: with packed bags. That was on open water...the ship went all the way down, but everyone survived.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    What have I missed? Who's making comparisons to the Titanic?
    Every reporter doing a story on TV? And a few of the passengers, apparently, though they all seem to say "Like that movie, Titanic..."

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Every reporter doing a story on TV? And a few of the passengers, apparently, though they all seem to say "Like that movie, Titanic..."
    I know, it's so annoying. This is not anything like the Titanic, other than the factor of human error. And I've been reading several online papers where they are talking about the Concordia and famous passenger ship disasters. Some of their fact checkers must be doing research in a crack house. Someone said the ship was 450 feet long, when it is over twice that length.

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    Seeing the tilted ship actually reminded me of the scene from The Poseiden Adventure when the ship was capsized by the tidal wave, and everything and everyone inside started to slide to one side.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Every reporter doing a story on TV? And a few of the passengers, apparently, though they all seem to say "Like that movie, Titanic..."
    I've been watching CNN - haven't heard the word Titanic even once. Maybe I missed it.
    3539 and counting.

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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    I've been watching CNN - haven't heard the word Titanic even once. Maybe I missed it.
    Anderson said it twice during his show..
    Thanks to PI .. I discovered I'm actually a Nontheist

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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4rkidz View Post
    according to my cruise ship message board - if the Captain had followed protocol after hitting the rocks - and not tried to turn it toward the harbour - the outcome may have been much better.. apparently the ships are built to seal off when flooded so they stay stable and not list.. but by the captain doing his major move of turning the ship so the passengers would be closer to land may have actually made things much worse

    Those that have died so far is due to being trapped from the ship listing - if he had apparently followed protocol all the life boats would have been accessible and there would have been time for a proper rescue - will be interesting to see what the black box has to say.
    Sigh. And the captain's lawyer actually said that turning the ship to shallow waters saved passengers. Because they were forced to swim 300 yards to shore when they couldn't get to a lifeboat.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4rkidz View Post
    apparently also called his mama before the authorities
    My sister (who studied abroad in Florence for half a year) said there was an issue in Italy where grown men live at home home longer and longer because all the younger women insist on having a career. No woman is willing to marry a dude who expects her to cook all day and baby him like momma. Perhaps that wasn't a random observation to have...

    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Every reporter doing a story on TV? And a few of the passengers, apparently, though they all seem to say "Like that movie, Titanic..."
    Well, it IS one of the highest grossing movies ever and the first thing that would come to mind for regular folks. I wouldn't necessarily blame them for that. Everyone's seen Titanic, and the process of the ship sinking was shown in high detail.

  19. #79
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    below was translated from the Italian newspaper "La Repubblica" today 17.01.12. (happening while captain on his cellphone)

    ON THE PHONE WITH THE COAST
    Let us return to Friday night. In 60 minutes the fate of the "Concordia", its crew, and its 4,200 passengers, was played out. What happened on the Bridge, after the impact? Officer Alessandro Di Lena explained: "The Captain was glued to his cellphone. He made many calls. We asked him "Captain,what are you doing ? " But he did not reply - always on the phone.” On the phone with whom? At least three officers on the bridge confirm this crucial detail. "Schettino called Ferrarini at least three times, maybe four, they spoke for a long time." Roberto Ferrarini is the "Director of Marine Operations", in charge of crisis control for the whole Costa fleet .

    What decisions were these two making? La Repubblica’s sources, from within the shipping company, explained : "It is true, Schettino contacted Ferrarini for the first time at 22.05 and after that communication the emergency procedures were activated." All right. Ferrarini perhaps gave the Captain orders to abandon ship? Or to alert the Coast Guard? If that is true, then why did Schettino ignore these orders (the evacuation was ordered only at 22:58 after direct orders from the Coast Guard)? And if in fact Schettino actually “did his own thing”, why, on the morning of the 14th, did the shipping company pubicly (in a press conference) defend the correctness of the behavior of their Captain?

    “Costa” officially stated "we can not violate confidentiality at this stage of investigation,” and therefore they could not give answers to the content of those three phone calls. But unofficially sources inside the company report that, indeed, communications were handled that night with Schettino. The Captain indeed admitted to having "a serious problem on board," but, according to our sources, minimized it, saying it was under control. It is a fact – corroborated by two officers on the bridge - the third and final phone call with Ferrarini, before evacuating the ship, ended with the words of the Captain. Distraught. "My career ends here. I am fired."

    ON CELLPHONE WITH PALOMBO
    Ferrarini is not the only one with whom Schettino spent this crucial hour on the phone. There was also the retired Captain Terence Mario Palombo, the man who, for four years, was Schettino’s commander on the "Serena", the sister ship of the "Concordia". The recipient of the island “salute”. Questioned by investigators, Palombo confirmed that he had spoken that night with Schettino. He called Schettino, after being warned by the mayor of Giglio that the Concordia was in trouble. Indeed? Other intelligence sources, explain that in fact, "Schettino was already on the phone with Palombo at the moment of impact with the rocks." In a sort of "direct mail" of his gamble (the Court has asked for printouts of the Captain’s cellphone). Palombo, after speaking with Schettino, contacted Costa Crociere, as confirmed by the company: "Indeed, Palombo, who is a highly respected Captain, with a long career in Costa, appears to have contacted Gianni Onorato, Director-General. By then the Company was already aware of the emergency. "

    IN THE BELLY OF THE FLOODED SHIP
    Let us imagine the scene, between 21:42 and 22:58. Schettino stunned on the bridge and glued to the phone. Passengers with life-jackets on, awaiting orders. The picture becomes dramatic, in the words of Giovanni Iaccarino, First Officer. "At 21:42, after the impact the captain orders me – verbally - to go down in the engine room. I ran down and the scene was terrifying. Everything flooded. I was literally up to my neck in water. Engine compartment flooded. Generators flooded. Electrical control console flooded." Via intercom Iaccarino shouts to the Bridge what he sees. "Flooded engine compartment", "Flooded Generators." On the Bridge, they shout out aloud what they hear. Pumps dead, engines stopped. Everyone is waiting for the obvious answer: Evacuate. Also because, on the ship, only one source of energy now works. A small " Isotta Franschini " diesel generator. The "Donald Duck", as the emergency generator on the top deck of the "Concordia" is nicknamed , which can only supply the emergency lighting on board. Iaccarino yells into the intercom what he sees every ten minutes. But there is no answer. Schettino is on the phone.

    THE ORDER TO LOWER LIFEBOATS
    At about 22.30, on the Bridge, it is clear that waiting for a response from the Captain is useless. Backing Schettino was only Dimitri Christidis, the Greek senior officer (who was later discovered with Schettino in the lifeboat taking them to safety in the night). Other officers discuss whether to pass command of the ship to Roberto Bosio, the second in command, a Ligurian with whom Schettino was known to have had deep distrust and maritime rivalry. Bosio was all for immediate evacuation and, in fact, began operations even without the official order. Bosio must not have been too wrong if it is true that, according to Di Lena, "For the first forty minutes from the impact, the ship was drifting. We could easily have dropped the lifeboats, with passengers loaded, on both sides. We could have all arrived on land without even getting our feet wet. "

    THE FOLLY OF MARSEILLE
    Concordia is sinking and for the first time its officers have the guts to rebel against their Captain. They didn’t have the same guts on December 17 last year when - another shocking truth that emerges from the statements - Schettino jeopardizes the ship for first time, laden with passengers. That day, the Concordia was docked in the port of Marseilles. The wind blew between 50 and 60 knots. A storm. According to Deck Officer Martino Pellegrini: "He gathered us on the wharf and informed us that we would go out anyway, despite the wind. There was a chilling silence. We looked between us, but we did not have the strength to speak. Then, he ordered us to inspect the bumpers of the dock, making sure that they held. " That day, in fact, the maneuver was reckless. The "Concordia" left the dock with the "engines full steam ahead" off those bumpers by bouncing off them, like a spring.

    THE “DARE” OF GIGLIO
    Marseille on the 17th , Giglio on the 13th. It seems like a diabolical witches brew. But perhaps – according to the testimony of those questioned – it was a terrible “seaman’s dare”. Schettino wanted to prove to himself and to the other officers of Costa how great he was. On the night of the 13th - as confirmed by the onboard cartographic records – he ordered the navigation officer to to plot a new course to approach Giglio. Into the autopilot electronic control system - says Pellegrino - the course was entered "278 ° north-west" to pass 0.5 miles from land (900 meters). But when the "Concordia" saw the lights of Giglio, Schettino took the helm. "Switch to manual" he ordered. "I take control (Commando io)." And this dare of a “fly-by” salute became a game of Russian roulette.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FigureSpins View Post
    The Anti-Sully - has a catchy ring to it. I'm surprised we haven't heard of more local boats being pressed into service for the rescue since it was an island. When the plane went down in the Hudson, ferries and boats rushed to the scene. Ditto on 9/11.
    As good as Sully may have been I'm not sure you can compare those two disasters either.

    Sully only had two options, Land on water or crash on water, pretty grim senario either way and with 30 years of experience he landed it on the water better that any one in his field could have.

    An Airbus A320's cabin is only 90 feet long and with only 155 people on board it was easy to make sure all were accounted for and out of the cabin since it's a long steal tube not a 17 deck 114,000 ton ship. NYC also has over 8 million people so there would have been much more water traffic than Italy would have had.

    The ship's captain was a stupid coward and I hope he is charged with a crime/s when the investigation is over.

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