US Ladies [#3]: 2011-12 news, musings & everything else

[demetriosj]

Which still means they didn't pass her, right?




.

because IMHO, she has had the luck o' the Irish on her side over the years! (OK I realize she's not Irish, but we are nearing St. Patrick's Day..)

Czisny has been extremely lucky throughout her skating career that skaters who were clearly more talented than her in the jumping/speed/strength area have all fallen to the wayside due to injury/and/or growth spurts, etc..

she's cut a lot of breaks, plus USFS just seems to adore her..

[Wyliefan]

http://twitter.com/#!/AshWagner2010/...212480/photo/1

I can sympathize. I'm the world's worst parker (a cigarette-smoking woman outside Barnes and Noble pointed this out to me just yesterday).

[Angela-Fan]

((wylifan)) Lol. Once, a long time ago, while I was waiting in line at the bank, some grumpy older man (a lot older) told me to learn how to park. I did not take that well. At all. There are more polite ways to tell someone their parking job was bad. Actually I would never say a word to someone who didn't park well. Everyone has bad days and makes mistakes.

[Jammers]

Sad to say but it does tell you something about US Ladies skating over the last 6-7 years that someone who first skated at Nats as a Senior over ten years ago is still considered one of the tops Ladies in the US now. It tells you how most every skater that has come up since then has not panned out.

[5Ali3]

Just curious: Aren't Kostner, Joubert, etc. on a similar training/tapering schedule since they are going to worlds?
(I honestly dunno)

I honestly don't know anything about Kostner and Joubert's training/tapering schedule; presumably, they're also aiming to peak at Worlds, but there's more than one training plan. Different coaches have different opinions, and different plans work for different skaters. Ideally, a coach matches the training/tapering plan to the skater, but unfortunately, that doesn't always happen.

It may be the case but neither Alissa or Abbott is the most confident performers. Not sure what showing up like this in competition-does for their self esteem.

Speculating, but I suspect the result on self-confidence depends on their goals/attitudes going into the competition. Let's say Sam Skater's goal was to put his quad into his short. If he lands it, that's probably good for his confidence. If he falls on it, it might be bad for his confidence, but it might be a learning experience: does his timing speed up in competition and he needs to learn to control his adrenaline? does he become less aggressive in an attempt to make sure that he doesn't fall (which almost inevitably tends to result in a fall, of course)? does he forget his keywords and start thinking, "don't fall"? how does a fall affect the remainder of the program? if the quad isn't the first jump, do the jumps before the quad fall apart because he's thinking ahead to the quad?

Sorry, RD. It's not meant to be snark at you. It's snark at the fact that USFS clearly didn't monitor well last year, and I'm not sure they really addressed the monitoring error--ever.

Monitoring depends, in part, on transparency from the athlete and the coach. If the athlete and/or coach wants to hide something from the monitor, it's pretty easy to do so. Pre-competition monitoring is done by USFSA officials (i.e., judges and technical panel officials, not paid USFSA staff), who aren't allowed to question coaches' expertise or methods; I posted about this recently, maybe in some pair thread, so I won't go into detail here. I've also posted before that the greater skating community is like a [very] dysfunctional family, and, as in a family, there's an assumption of trust. I can't recall another instance in which an athlete/coach deliberately misled the rest of the family about such a serious injury at such a big competition. Had Flatt disclosed the injury prior to leaving for Worlds, I speculate - based solely on prior experience and not on anything specifically related to Flatt's situation - that she would have been kept on the team, given the timing of the diagnosis. The single biggest problem was the violation of trust. You can't lie to family about anything except whether you like their new haircut.

US National is a pre-judged event, IMO. They wanted to give Ashley a chance, however, they were not ready to dump Alissa and they still have some hope for Zhang. That's how the podium turned out. The same for ice dance, they love H/D and pushed this team all the way since day one, even they're not quite ready which showed at 4 CC's result. USFS has their own plan and at times, they chose the wrong skater(s). I also see no reason to send Jeremy and Alissa to Hague. It turned out to be a disaster and demoralized them before Worlds.

Not.A.Hive-Borg-Mind.

[RD]

Sad to say but it does tell you something about US Ladies skating over the last 6-7 years that someone who first skated at Nats as a Senior over ten years ago is still considered one of the tops Ladies in the US now. It tells you how most every skater that has come up since then has not panned out.

While I agree for the most part, I'm willing to give Czisny a little more credit than that. Had she woken up years ago, she definitely would have been competitive with Cohen and Meissner at least. The potential was always there but the jumps sucked. She was a late bloomer for sure, and it appears she may have peaked last season as a skater.

[victoriaheidi]

I think, given what happened last year with Rachael, the USFSA will be a bit more concerned with why Alissa tanked the way she did at this competition. How stupid would they look to have the same thing happen two years in a row? BUT, in Alissa's defense, I think if she were injured she and her team would be responsible enough to alert the USFSA; I don't think they'd try to keep it all hushed up like Rachael and her team did.

Personally, I don't think she's injured. Her problems in those programs looked more mental than physical to me. Those kind of lost-in-the-air mistakes and falls feel more like a lack of confidence and timing IMO. They said she was 100% healed at nationals, but sometimes injuries can have a lingering effect even after they're healed. If she's being tentative (more so than usual) it may be b/c she scared of re-injuring herself and that kind of thinking can eff with your confidence pretty badly.

It's clear her confidence has dipped back down into the red zone. It hasn't been where it was last season all year long, so I'm not surprised this has happened...I just hope all of that talk of mental toughness comes into play b/c she's going to need to refocus her mind and pick herself back up heading into worlds.

Either way, it's going to be the same question for Alissa at worlds this year: Which Alissa are we getting today?

I hope the monitoring is better. I really do, for everyone's sake. No one benefits from USFS being hands-off on monitoring.

I don't know that she has a specific injury, but I feel like she's physically worn out and mentally overloaded.

[smarts1]

Either way, who would be the best option to send besides Alissa? Because I quite frankly don't see one... The only closest option that I can see would probably be to send Caroline.

[victoriaheidi]

Re: Kostner and Joubert: IMO, it's hard to compare European skaters to American skaters when it comes to training because of the different season structure, with Nationals in the fall vs. winter and the fact that Joubert and Koster don't have to worry about falling off the World team in the way that American skaters do. It's just so different.

[RD]

Either way, who would be the best option to send besides Alissa? Because I quite frankly don't see one... The only closest option that I can see would probably be to send Caroline.

Exactly. This is what I pointed out on another forum but basically, unless she is SERIOUSLY injured, Czisny is really the best option we've got. Especially when you consider who would go in her place were she to WD...that's right, it's not CZhang (who IMO would be the best option considering things), but Zawadzki...and with all due respect to her, she is just as unreliable as Czisny, AND she lacks the scoring advantage Czisny has. In fact, I believe Zawadzki's SB is only a few points higher than what Czisny scored for the egg she laid at Challenge Cup...now how's that for comfort??

[olympic]

Dear US skating fan,

In regards to Jeremy and Alissa being team members for the United States and due to recent events at Challenge Cup in the Netherlands, we recommend that you NOT tune in to Worlds if you have or suffer from any serious health conditions. Side effects of watching Jeremy or Alissa compete for those with serious health conditions may be - Dizziness, Nausea, Vomiting, Uncontrolled Flatulence, Respiratory Stress, Premature Balding or Graying, or even Unconsciousness. Serious US fans may experience Heart Attack or Stroke. Don't watch Worlds especially if you are pregnant, as this may cause premature birth. We are sorry for any inconvenience!


Regards,

The USFSA

[geod2]

Dear US skating fan,

In regards to Jeremy and Alissa being team members for the United States and due to recent events at Challenge Cup in the Netherlands, we recommend that you NOT tune in to Worlds if you have or suffer from any serious health conditions. Side effects of watching Jeremy or Alissa compete for those with serious health conditions may be - Dizziness, Nausea, Vomiting, Uncontrolled Flatulence, Respiratory Stress, Premature Balding or Graying, or even Unconsciousness. Serious US fans may experience Heart Attack or Stroke. Don't watch Worlds especially if you are pregnant, as this may cause premature birth. We are sorry for any inconvenience!


Regards,

The USFSA

-

[icellist]

i may be going on a limb here but i feel like the best substitutes are Caroline Zhang and Mirai Nagasu. Agnes looked promising last year but really only had 1 great skate this year at nationals SP. CZhang is as competitive as ever, but Mirai is the most complete skater with the PCS edge.

but this is only if Czisny decides to withdraw. but if Czisny withdraws before Worlds starts but too late to get a substitute to Nice. What place would Wagner need to make to get 3 spots back? <not trying to add pressure on to her though, just curious>

[DimaToe]

I love how things have changed in a couple of months, when Caroline was assigned Skate America most people were like WTF? because most of us thought that she was undeserving of the spot, and would just end up getting last place, Alissa on the other hand was seen as the hero of the U.S ladies,she was on a road to greatness and wouldn't be stopped....now some people want to send Caroline to worlds instead of Alissa...I dont know whether to laugh or cry....

On that same note though, the only reason we even managed to get two spots last season was because Alissa had a top 5 finish. While at this point Caroline might be the better choice, and my choice personally, Alissa should get to keep one of the spots she earned, and like it's been said, a flawed Alissa is still a safer bet than Zawadzki.

[icemusings]

A few people have mentioned Mirai Nagasu as being a good replacement for Czisny, but personally I feel that she has all the same consistency and mental problems. She's also never won an international senior event (except Nebelhorn Trophy).

It's also possible that the poor result for Alissa had a lot more to do with shaking the rust off a two month competitive hiatus and will let her give her peak performance at Worlds.

[BigB08822]

Sad to say but it does tell you something about US Ladies skating over the last 6-7 years that someone who first skated at Nats as a Senior over ten years ago is still considered one of the tops Ladies in the US now. It tells you how most every skater that has come up since then has not panned out.

I get your point but when Kwan was skating at Nationals in 2003 and was about 1 month away from her 5th World title, were we saying "wow, US skating is in the dumps, this old woman is STILL in the hunt!?" Again, I get your point, but any excuse to bring up Kwan and all that...

[Coco]

There's no one who's demonstrated they can be relied on to score well internationally, except maybe Zhang.

Unfortunately, there's no legal way to get Zhang on the team, so Czissny's our girl.

Go Alissa!

[BigB08822]

On that same note though, the only reason we even managed to get two spots last season was because Alissa had a top 5 finish.

I don't know the current rules but was the US actually in danger of having only 1 lady? I thought you had to have some really truly awful placements to not get 2 spots. Flatt finished 12th, not like she failed to qualify for the free skate. I think Alissa could have probably finished quite a bit lower and still kept 2 spots.

[BigB08822]

There's no one who's demonstrated they can be relied on to score well internationally, except maybe Zhang.

Unfortunately, there's no legal way to get Zhang on the team, so Czissny's our girl.

Go Alissa!

Your basing this off of 4CC and completely ignoring what else she has done the past 2 seasons? I am so thrilled for Zhang but 1 competition is only 1 competition. I know it is 2 if you count Nationals but you specifically mentioned scoring on the international scene.

[Vagabond]

There's no one who's demonstrated they can be relied on to score well internationally, except maybe Zhang.

Caroline Zhang's scores in international competition over the past three seasons:

2012 Four Continents 176.18
2011 Ice Challenge 152.72
2011 Skate America 140.70
2010 Skate America 132.49
2010 NHK Trophy 133.86
2010 Four Continents 160.78
2009 Skate Canada 132.46
2009 Trophée Eric Bompard 153.15