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  1. #21

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    Phaneuf is the type of skater who needs to have her opinions and esp her feelings about things rspected, thus being encouraged to use her natural instincts and getting in touch with her feelings by the new coaching team of B. Orser, T. Wilson & D. Wilson should work very well for her.

    Yes, strategic planning and organizing, being disciplined is necessary too, but with Cynthia, her feelings, opinions and being respected for what she believes and feels is right for her to do, simply MUST carry the day. She must be allowed to be an adult and free to make her own decisions.

    Relationships are very important and have great impact on someone who is sensitive and responsive and who sometimes needs to feel in charge of herself, like Phaneuf, so feeling optimistic and free to be herself. feel free to understand her own reactions and desires and actually being encouraged and trained by people she respects in return, to do just that, should have a very positive effect on her skating. At least I hope so. Sometimes just being treated as an adult works wonders and that can be very difficult to do when one has had the same coach since one was a child -the relational dynamic is just very tough to change, esp when over time, friendships have evolved as well.

    A change in environment can be as good as a rest, so hopefully Phaneuf will quickly get back into the form that had her ranked 5th in the world and she can conquer her 3 lutz nemesis, let go of the people and things that were holding her back in life and get her head back in the game, if skating is truly what she wants as so much talent, charisma should not be wasted or go unrewarded. I still think Phaneuf can take her skating to next level, provided she still wants to and believes in the team around her and most importantly has faith in herself.

    I kinda hope she and new team moves the 3 lutz to a different place in the rink as well as moves it within her programs, as psychologically this type of change could potentially turn things around, since by now her muscle memory and own attitude is likely always ready to fall on it, rather than land the %^&$ jump! Putting it somewhere else, could make all the difference! Go Cynthia! I am not ready to give up on her yet!

  2. #22

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    I'm torn because I adore both Cynthia's and Amelie's skating. Amelie has certainly been more consistent on the GP and put in an OK performance at Cup of Russia but Cynthia tends to rise for nationals. I hope that nationals will make them both bring out their A-games
    Kyle

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Off to YouTube to see if I can find that out.

    ETA: Chouinard bombed in the LP at the '96 Canadian Nats. She landed one clean triple. She fell on the lutz, stepped out of the loop, and doubled everything else. No combo jumps at all.

    I couldn't find any videos of Robinson, though.
    Thank you for doing the historical research; I didn't seriously follow FS back then so I knew nothing of it. Anyway, good luck to Cynthia, if she could keep those nerves in check she could still accomplish quite a bit more in her career.

    Cynthia's Wikipedia page says she's using the same exact programs as last year. She isn't really, is she? Both SP and FS?
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  4. #24
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    Maybe she'll have different costumes. We can hope about that and also that the coaching change HAS made the difference she needed.
    Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. Plato

  5. #25
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    From Nomad: 'ETA: Chouinard bombed in the LP at the '96 Canadian Nats. She landed one clean triple. She fell on the lutz, stepped out of the loop, and doubled everything else. No combo jumps at all.'

    I was there. Chouinard skated very badly and Robinson had a great skate. Everyone thought she deserved to win at the time, and that they were seeing a 'changing of the guard', so to speak. Chouinard was crying so hard at the podium ceremony she had to helped from the rink door to the podium by Susan Humphreys (the bronze medalist).

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by googooeyes View Post
    From Nomad: 'ETA: Chouinard bombed in the LP at the '96 Canadian Nats. She landed one clean triple. She fell on the lutz, stepped out of the loop, and doubled everything else. No combo jumps at all.'

    I was there. Chouinard skated very badly and Robinson had a great skate. Everyone thought she deserved to win at the time, and that they were seeing a 'changing of the guard', so to speak. Chouinard was crying so hard at the podium ceremony she had to helped from the rink door to the podium by Susan Humphreys (the bronze medalist).
    Thanks for the info. I would have liked to have seen Robinson's skate; Chouinard's was so painful to watch.
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
    Thanks for the info. I would have liked to have seen Robinson's skate; Chouinard's was so painful to watch.
    I thought Robinson's was awful, too, and she didn't have Chouinard's basic skating skills, but the one thing she had was some fight and aggression at the end of the program, which Chouinard didn't. I thought that Susan Humphreys should have actually won the free skate, and probably would have under COP, but since the only triples she landed were sals and toe-loops, she got dumped by the judges. She also had a disastrous short program, so I'm not sure who the right winner overall should have been in that mess of a competition. I did think that Chouinard should have gone to Worlds regardless of the Nationals results, as I've never believed that Nationals should be the only factor considered in determining a world team. Or at a minimum, they could have had Chouinard's World spot contingent on a decent skate at the Champion Series Final, which was held after Canadians that year.

    I don't think this situation is at all the same. Neither Amelie nor Cynthia have had spectacular international results this year - Amelie's have been marginally better, but not enough to justify giving her a spot at Worlds if she can't beat Cynthia at Canadians. In this case, I think battling out at Canadians and letting the winner go to Worlds is as good a method as any to decide the team. Or if it's a close competition, I wouldn't object to having the spot decided after 4CC.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by googooeyes View Post
    I was there. Chouinard skated very badly and Robinson had a great skate. Everyone thought she deserved to win at the time, and that they were seeing a 'changing of the guard', so to speak. Chouinard was crying so hard at the podium ceremony she had to helped from the rink door to the podium by Susan Humphreys (the bronze medalist).
    Aww, that's sad, but thanks for sharing.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    I don't know what this means.
    I'm going by memory here but IIRC, Josée later said after her disastrous skate that she'd been looking too much beyond Nats (i.e. wanted to peak at Worlds) and that contributed to her not being focused enough on that event.

    Cynthia's comment seems shades of that so maybe that's what berthesghost meant. But fingers crossed obviously that it turns out differently for her!

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by nlyoung View Post
    If she skates well the spot is hers. The problem is she so rarely puts in two good performances back to back...
    She will have to bomb rather badly not to be sent. She really is that much better than the rest of the field as a skater.

    If the lutz is not consistent, I say take it out even. She doesn't need it. Something like this will be enough for her to win Nationals if clean:

    3loop2toe, 3toe, 2axel

    3loop2toe, 3toe2toe2loop, 3loop, 3sal, 3toe, 2axel2toe, 2axel

    She will then have 2 more months to work on the lutz.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    She will have to bomb rather badly not to be sent. She really is that much better than the rest of the field as a skater.
    That says more about the field that it does about Phaneuf - she'd have trouble making the podium in the US, Japan or Russia, let alone winning the title.

    I'm willing to be surprised about a reinvented Cynthia under Orser, but I'm sure not holding my breath waiting for it.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    That says more about the field that it does about Phaneuf - she'd have trouble making the podium in the US, Japan or Russia, let alone winning the title.

    I'm willing to be surprised about a reinvented Cynthia under Orser, but I'm sure not holding my breath waiting for it.
    Podium? She would likely not be given any GP slots or even senior Bs if she competed for those 3 countries and skated like she normally did.

    Truth is, even if she nailed her jumps, she would still be the same old skater with great basics, presence and musicality but the emptiest, most boring programs ever. (and I say this with love)

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Podium? She would likely not be given any GP slots or even senior Bs if she competed for those 3 countries and skated like she normally did.

    Truth is, even if she nailed her jumps, she would still be the same old skater with great basics, presence and musicality but the emptiest, most boring programs ever. (and I say this with love)
    ITA agree with you about the great basics and empty dull programs. And I don't find her programs don't really suit here and that as result, her programs don't seem sincere and I don't buy her emotional expression. But I blame that more on the federation and her team, not Cynthia herself.

    If she skated the way she did the year she placed fifth at worlds in both the SP and LP, she might make the podiums in those countries and get GP assignments. Course, that's a very big 'if'

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    If she skated the way she did the year she placed fifth at worlds in both the SP and LP, she might make the podiums in those countries and get GP assignments. Course, that's a very big 'if'
    The only other times she was clean were pre-COP.

    And the lutz success rate in recent seasons have been

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    The only other times she was clean were pre-COP.

    And the lutz success rate in recent seasons have been
    I wish she had made the change much sooner.

  16. #36

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    IMO, Cynthia's biggest problem is that she stalks her jumps. As soon as I see her stroke then slow up, I know a jump is coming. Much of the time, when she does this, she either pops or falls.

    If Orser can break her of this habit, she will be more successful.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    IMO, Cynthia's biggest problem is that she stalks her jumps. As soon as I see her stroke then slow up, I know a jump is coming. Much of the time, when she does this, she either pops or falls.

    If Orser can break her of this habit, she will be more successful.
    Yes! I can ALWAYS tell when Cynthia is going to botch a jump, you can see it coming before she even takes off.
    Tessa and Scott: Thank you

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by marbri View Post
    Yes! I can ALWAYS tell when Cynthia is going to botch a jump, you can see it coming before she even takes off.
    Exactly. This is what concerns me about allowing her to go by instinct. Makes it sound like it's ok to pop a jump if she doesn't feel good or something.

    It's like she needs to be taught the other way...like Frank Carroll. Apparently in practice you pay a big price if you don't rotate the triple if you are attempting one...to teach you never to bail.

    Ah well, leave it to the experts....

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    Let me share what I remember from 1996 to make the picture fuller.

    JRo was second in the short with a fab skate to The Mission. Totally clean including 3Z+2T and a 3L. Josee won the short after doing 2.5 rotations on the lutz and coming out forwards and totally missing the combo. She should have been way down.

    You see on the net that Josee landed the second 3Z only in the LP. At least it was a big jump. I hated the LP when I first saw it but really grew to love it.

    Jen was really slow. If memory serves she landed 3 triples including a 2S+3T+SEQ, 3L and 3Z near the end. I remember the lutz not being perfect but it's what got her over the hump. The 2S was supposed to be 3S and she missed the first lutz and the other loop. Her other 2 jumping passes were a 2A and a 2F+1A+SEQ....should have been a 2A in the sequence. She skated after Josee...either second last or last...and pulled marks that looked like 5.4/5.6 to Josee's 5.0/5.8...kinda thing.

    Now as for the rules CFSA (now Skate Canada) had at the time. Again, IIRC the rule at the time was the Canadian champ automatically went to worlds, so CFSA was already hemmed by their own rule. After 1996 CFSA instituted the 'Josee' rule that goes something like:
    *if Canada has 2 or 3 entries for worlds the national champ automatically goes. The other 1-2 entries are determined by national and international results over the past year.
    *if Canada has only 1 entry then committee decides who goes based on national and international results...

    So if that rule had been in place for 1996, Josee would have gone to Edmonton, clearly.

    And for this year, the GP results for Cynthia and Amelie are not significantly different to warrant sending anyone other than the national champion. So, Moncton will be a pressure cooker!

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    All of her faults could change with a great coach. I hope she is happy and does well with him.

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