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  1. #101

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    2002 ladies SP was one of the cleanest competitions i can recall in the ladies. I seem to remember taking issue with the "steps" preceding the jumps on most of the top 10 and remember thinking that Sarah Meier (coming in around 10 or 11) was the only one that had steps right into the solo triple flip (was it the flip she did). Everyone had more or less the same jump content, and everyone stood up.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Really the entire 2006 Olympic OD was a drama fest, capped by the death glare, which was truly a moment for the ages. Years later Barbara mentioned that there were loads of Savarovski crystals on the ice from all the previous falls (though she did not attribute their fall to tripping on any of them ).
    Of course she did...why else even mention it? And why did no one else mention the crystals either?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    2002 ladies SP was one of the cleanest competitions i can recall in the ladies. I seem to remember taking issue with the "steps" preceding the jumps on most of the top 10 and remember thinking that Sarah Meier (coming in around 10 or 11) was the only one that had steps right into the solo triple flip (was it the flip she did). Everyone had more or less the same jump content, and everyone stood up.
    Yes, and looking at the scores, you see it was a really close competition : almost every skaters in the top 11 after the SP (except the 3 first) have places from 4th to 12th !

  4. #104
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    I remember that Fontana skated well but the arena was half empty after the Kwan/Slutskaya/Butyrskaya group had skated.
    Meier was lovely, Gusemeroli skated really well. Sebestyan also.
    The free programes I enjoyed the most was Jennifer Robinson (a pity she fell on the lutz), Sarah Hughes & Fumie Suguri's.
    Fumie was so unlucky at both Salt Lake City & Turin. In Turin I would have had her with the bronze above Slutskaya.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Yeah, shocking to me ! I was like that : "Suddenly at the same level as Anissina&Peizerat ?"
    IKR. I did find their (apparent) rapid improvement in 02 very

  6. #106
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    Over both compulsory's, the original & free I would have had Navka/Kostamarov with the bronze & Drobiazko/Vanagas with the silver.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Are you also forgetting that several years later said judge admitted that she didn't actually but was recieving threats from the North American press?

    There were at least eight other judges on that panel. B&S won. The reaction of the press and S&P was the ultimate in sore losing.
    Get your facts straight.

    Wikipedia page for Marie-Reine Le Gougne

    Although four other judges also placed Yelena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze ahead of the crowd favorites Jamie Salé and David Pelletier in the free skating, Le Gougne was immediately singled out for suspicion by television commentators and other observers. When she returned to the officials' hotel after the competition, she was confronted in the lobby by Sally Stapleford, then the chair of the Technical Committee, who began to question her about her judging of the event. Le Gougne broke down in a tearful outburst that was witnessed by a number of other skating officials who happened to be present in the hotel lobby. She said that she had been pressured by the head of the French federation, Didier Gailhaguet, to put the Russians first as part of a deal to give the ice dancing gold to the French ice dance team. She repeated these statements in the judges' post-event review meeting the following day, but in the following days and weeks, she issued a number of contradictory statements and retractions. She later stated that she had truly believed the Russian pair deserved to win and had been pressured to say the Canadians were better. Both Le Gougne and Gailhaguet were eventually suspended from the sport for three years by the International Skating Union, which never made any serious investigation into the events.
    She gave a number of contradictory statements very soon after the competition. Even if you choose to believe the story as she eventually told it in her memoirs, the fact remains that her first explanation was that she had been pressured to vote for the Russians.

    There were a lot of ways the ISU and IOC could have gone, and they chose the easiest one, which was to nullify Le Gougne's marks for the Russians and Canadians and award gold medals to both.

    Judges' Marks for the Long Program

    As you can see, in the official scores (after Le Gougne's marks were removed), the vote was 4-4, but more judges placed the Russians higher than the Canadians on the second mark (the first tiebreaker).

    Does that mean the Russians were better and should have won outright? Not necessarily. Since there was never a thorough investigation as to the integrity of the other judges, we'll never know.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by PashaFan View Post
    Over both compulsory's, the original & free I would have had Navka/Kostamarov with the bronze & Drobiazko/Vanagas with the silver.
    I can handle that. 2002 is one of those odd years where I feel that too many people were robbed to really get angry about it, but I wasn't that excited by most of the "top" contenders anyway. Even A/P (I presume you agree with the gold medalists) had a FD I wasn't enamoured with (though that OD was obviously a masterpiece).

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    If you're going to talk about "facts" and then go on to cite wikiepdia as your source, then

    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Judges' Marks for the Long Program

    As you can see, in the official scores (after Le Gougne's marks were removed), the vote was 4-4, but more judges placed the Russians higher than the Canadians on the second mark (the first tiebreaker).
    I might be misremembering but I looked up all the rules at the time and if the strict rules of the ISU were followed then it should not have gone to a tie breaker. The French judges marks should have been removed, and replaced with those of the [i can't remember the official but i think it's the referree or the assistant someone or other], if that had been done in this case, the official whose marks should have counted would have gone with S&P and then the majority would have gone to S&P and they would have been the "winners" in that case.

    The fact is, the ISU did not follow any of its actual rules in awarding the second gold medal, because there are no rules governing a situation of double gold medals. It was a fudge that had to be sorted in as quick a way as possible and seemed the most equitable at the time given the french judges admission of cheating.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    If you're going to talk about "facts" and then go on to cite wikiepdia as your source, then



    I might be misremembering but I looked up all the rules at the time and if the strict rules of the ISU were followed then it should not have gone to a tie breaker. The French judges marks should have been removed, and replaced with those of the [i can't remember the official but i think it's the referree or the assistant someone or other], if that had been done in this case, the official whose marks should have counted would have gone with S&P and then the majority would have gone to S&P and they would have been the "winners" in that case.
    Nope. Sorry.
    IIRC, it was the substitute judge who would be used in case another judge fell ill or withdrew during a competition. However, that did not apply in this case. There was no rule nor any precedent under OBO that allowed for any judge's marks to be replaced with someone else's after the fact.
    Using the substitute judge was proposed as a solution by some, but it actually completely ignored what the rules explicitly stated as well as precedent.
    In previous events were judges were caught cheating, their marks weren't even thrown out.(98 dance, 99 pairs)

    There was never any procedure or rule that was given under the ordinal system that was meant to deal with a situation involving a dishonest judge other than a 2 year suspension for that judge .

    The only thing they really could do, based on the non-existant rules and non-investigation, was either let the result stand (as per precedent )or give a second gold .
    Last edited by escaflowne9282; 01-13-2012 at 01:38 PM.

  11. #111
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    Did the ISU make the choice or the Olympic committee? I get confused about it.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subway View Post
    Did the ISU make the choice or the Olympic committee? I get confused about it.
    Since it was the Olympic Games, they're Olympic medals, not ISU medals. The IOC has the ultimate decision making power, but in this case it was probably a joint decision (if only because the ISU president is also on the IOC executive committee).
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    If you're going to talk about "facts" and then go on to cite wikiepdia as your source, then


    The facts really aren't in dispute. I could cite any number of sources -- including those used on Wikipedia. Le Gougne, after initally claiming that she had been pressured by her own federation to vote for the Russians, changed her story very shortly thereafter and eventually settled the version she used in her memoirs (which is to apparently what misskarne is thinking of).

    Of course, if you can cite any sources that give another sequence of the events and explain how so many people's actual memories are incorrect, please do.

    Quote Originally Posted by escaflowne9282 View Post
    The only thing they really could do, based on the non-existant rules and non-investigation, was either let the result stand (as per precedent )or give a second gold .
    Right. And I don't think the IOC was ever going to acquiesce in letting the result stand or that the ISU was ever going to do a thorough investigation, so there was only likely outcome.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I could cite any number of sources -- including those used on Wikipedia.
    I'd recommend ones other than Wikipedia seeing as anyone can go on there and edit what the "facts" are.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    I'd recommend ones other than Wikipedia seeing as anyone can go on there and edit what the "facts" are.
    Okey-dokey.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/17/sp...0Gougne&st=cse

    OLYMPICS: THE PIVOTAL MEETING; French Judge's Early Tears Indicated Controversy to Come

    By SELENA ROBERTS

    Published: February 17, 2002

    SALT LAKE CITY, Feb. 16— About 10 yards past a security checkpoint along the path of a cinder-block hall inside the Salt Lake Ice Center, a panel of nine judges filtered into a room for a standard postcompetition meeting last Tuesday morning.

    Twelve hours removed from the controversial moment when gold medallions were draped over Russia's Yelena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze, instead of Canada's Jamie Salé and David Pelletier, the judges assembled for a review of the decision under Ron Pfenning, the head referee.

    At first, it was business as usual as the judges sat around a table, poring over marks for several skaters, according to two high-ranking figure skating officials who spoke Friday on condition of anonymity. The judges debated the scores for various pairs, including those of the Americans Kyoko Ina and John Zimmerman. Watching a video of their long program, judges argued over why Ina and Zimmerman finished fifth and not fourth. It was all normal give-and-take, according to the officials.

    Then the meeting took a bizarre turn. Pfenning, known as a gentle and meticulous caretaker of skating, handed each judge a piece of paper with a passage about honesty and integrity, officials said.

    As each person passed back the pieces of paper, the judge Marie Reine Le Gougne began to sob, officials said.

    ''It was a rambling avalanche of words,'' Pfenning said when reached by telephone. ''I hadn't asked her a question. She had been teary-eyed through a lot of the meeting. It was an outburst: 'You don't understand. You don't understand. We're under an awful lot of pressure. My federations, my president Didier, I had to put the Russians first.' ''

    Didier Gailhaguet is the president of the French Figure Skating Federation. Pfenning said that when Le Gougne called out Gailhaguet's name, he knew he had to report the incident to the International Skating Union. ''I never gave it a second thought,'' Pfenning said.

    For several minutes, the wail from Le Gougne grew so loud that one official said a person in the room stripped tape over the crack in the door in an apparent soundproofing effort.

    The two high-ranking skating officials said no one embraced Le Gougne, the stylish 40-year-old Frenchwoman, as she cried out. Many of the judges, officials said, saw her as a pathetic figure. Some had seen her crying in the same way while standing in the hotel lobby after the competition. They already knew why Le Gougne was distraught, they said: her conscience had caught up to her.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/24/sp...+Gougne&st=nyt

    French Judge Says Pressure Was From Canada

    By SELENA ROBERTS and MICHAEL JANOFSKY

    Published: February 24, 2002

    SALT LAKE CITY, Feb. 23— The French judge at the center of the Olympic figure skating storm said today that from the moment she was named an Olympic judge, she was the target of an extraordinary lobbying effort to secure her vote for a Canadian pair.

    The judge, Marie Reine Le Gougne, said the pressure she felt was unlike any in her 14 years of judging, that it intensified as the Olympics drew near and that it came from one country, Canada.

    Le Gougne, 40, a former skater from Strasbourg, made her assertions during a two-hour interview, conducted in English, in her lawyer's office here. It was her most extensive public explanation of events since she scored a Russian pair over a Canadian couple for the gold medal on Feb. 11. Her entire account was not independently verifiable, but two high-ranking Western figure skating officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, say they believe her version of events.

    A senior Canadian official dismissed any suggestion that Canadians tried to influence the outcome in the pairs event. ''I have no reason to believe Canada is involved,'' said Michael Chambers, the president of the Canadian Olympic Association. ''Nothing leads me to believe that it's true.''
    So there you have it. She came up with two contradictory accounts within two weeks of the final.


  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Okey-dokey.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/17/sp...0Gougne&st=cse



    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/24/sp...+Gougne&st=nyt



    So there you have it. She came up with two contradictory accounts within two weeks of the final.


    Also, if a judge became ill or disqualified, the substitue judge should've been used. Jarmila Portova, the Czech judge, was the substitute judge, and she marked Sale/Pelletier first in the free skating.. So who knows how that would've been handled if the decision would've been made to use her marks once Le Gougne was deemed to be "disqualified".. A new medal ceremony with S/P first?? That would've been even worse than the dual gold medal probably..

  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    Plushenko goes ker-splat on his opening jumping pass at Salt Lake City.

    With all the build-up, the huge rivalry, everything...that was probably the last thing anyone expected to happen.



    That is the most shocking moment for me. I will never ever forget the scene.
    Until then he almost had a history of never falling on jumps either in competitons or practices. He was dead consistent, even on 4-3-2. I think no one in the world had expected it was going to happen.

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    Last edited by Vagabond; 01-15-2012 at 04:12 PM.

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by escaflowne9282 View Post
    Nope. Sorry.
    IIRC, it was the substitute judge who would be used in case another judge fell ill or withdrew during a competition. However, that did not apply in this case. There was no rule nor any precedent under OBO that allowed for any judge's marks to be replaced with someone else's after the fact.
    Using the substitute judge was proposed as a solution by some, but it actually completely ignored what the rules explicitly stated as well as precedent.
    In previous events were judges were caught cheating, their marks weren't even thrown out.(98 dance, 99 pairs)

    There was never any procedure or rule that was given under the ordinal system that was meant to deal with a situation involving a dishonest judge other than a 2 year suspension for that judge .

    The only thing they really could do, based on the non-existant rules and non-investigation, was either let the result stand (as per precedent )or give a second gold .

    This is correct, based on what the rules were at that time. There was no rule in place for that particular (French judge) situation.

    In th 1999 pairs the marks of the 'cheating' judge were not removed, but it would not have changed the final results because B&S had won 7-2. Even if two judges marks were removed, they would have still won 5-4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loves_Shizuka View Post
    Call me crazy, but I would have had Suguri ahead of Hughes as well.

    I've never, EVER, understood the silver/scores for L/A. Like, at all. Wasn't it a 5-4 split for 1st as well?!
    The 2002 Olympic Ice Dance Competition sucked. It was the worst Olympic Ice Dance competition of all-time (at least the FD). That's why L/A won the silver, and their incredible OD didn't hurt them either. Places 3 and 4 had falls, 5th place had no political pull, and everyone below them had no chance.

    I find that if you forget the FD happened and just go based on the OD, it was an amazing ice dance competition!

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